D
DAdmiral2
Guest
Basically i'm saying having ancestry connections is not a pass card to justify doing the same... not even FIFA will find this acceptable . ( ancestry blood , not parent or grand parent born in the country)
Basically i'm saying having ancestry connections is not a pass card to justify doing the same... not even FIFA will find this acceptable . ( ancestry blood , not parent or grand parent born in the country)
D
DAdmiral2
Guest
haven't we already pursued many... but let's just use 3rd gen if Germany , called out FIBA as criminal for not accepting as locals their 3rd gen and passport after 16 , don't u think that's un called for
Sikatrix2
Moderator
I mean if you want to fight those asking that FIBA consider DNA tests go to the AJ Edu fanpage. Thats stupid and Im not for that.
Sikatrix2
Moderator
No. Criminal was the term Coach Tab used. I prefer terms like stupid, unfair or lacking empathy for the most part.
L
Labradoodle2
Guest
If ancestry is tied to culture, are people in the US who have ancestors in the Philippines 2-3 generations ago, but have lost their culture still part of that "ancestry" or not? Truth be told, many Filipino North Americans would probably not qualify as "Filipino" if the basis is culture because many, by the second generation, have lost their heritage language and culture. The loss of "culture" is more evident among the people of mixed descent. It's not entirely their fault but there are societal pressures ans "mentaity" that would cause them to "lose their culture"
To add more to the confusion, would not "ancestry/culture" as a basis be most beneficial to China because Chinese diasporas are everywhere.
Just imagine China tapping Isaac Go, Geo Chiu based on ancestry/culture.
Also, what does it mean to be a "Qatari ancestry". Qatar as a nation only existed in the 70s. Qatar has similar CULTURE and genetic make up to other natives of the Gulf Arab countries
Then you have countries like Thailand and Indonesia that have communities that aren't "stereotypical" Thai or Indonesian. The culture of Southern Thailand is more similar to Malaysia than the rest of Thailand.
To add more to the confusion, would not "ancestry/culture" as a basis be most beneficial to China because Chinese diasporas are everywhere.
Just imagine China tapping Isaac Go, Geo Chiu based on ancestry/culture.
Also, what does it mean to be a "Qatari ancestry". Qatar as a nation only existed in the 70s. Qatar has similar CULTURE and genetic make up to other natives of the Gulf Arab countries
Then you have countries like Thailand and Indonesia that have communities that aren't "stereotypical" Thai or Indonesian. The culture of Southern Thailand is more similar to Malaysia than the rest of Thailand.
Last edited by a moderator:
D
DAdmiral2
Guest
patay pala ako doon.. but that's the thing, unfortunately everyone get's lumped up with those who speak loudest.... any the rest of the world sees the Philipines crying foul ignorantly. it isn't my imagination or mere isolated incidents or only a few.. The main message embarrassingly spread over social media is : LOOK at the cheaters recruiting fake Locals unlike our true Filipino blood race. it's embarrassing.
L
Labradoodle2
Guest
^^What is Filipino blood in the first place?
If by DNA, they'd be surprised how many Indonesians from Sulawesi are "80-90% Filipino". Hahaha.
We might as well recruit Indonesians from Sulawesi for the sake of "Filipino blood".
We should also import people from Guam and Maoris from New Zealand because they will come out as "Filipino" in 23andMe's DNA tests.
If by DNA, they'd be surprised how many Indonesians from Sulawesi are "80-90% Filipino". Hahaha.
We might as well recruit Indonesians from Sulawesi for the sake of "Filipino blood".
We should also import people from Guam and Maoris from New Zealand because they will come out as "Filipino" in 23andMe's DNA tests.
L
Labradoodle2
Guest
To end all controversies, it would probably best for FIBA to abolish the exceptions and Hagop rule and just require all national team players to have been *born and raised* in the country they are representing. No ifs, no buts. Quits lahat kung ganun. No one can take advantage of a large diaspora and countries can't hire "mercinaries" anymore. No naturalized player (in the sense of hiring a player from another to boost their team).
D
DAdmiral2
Guest
^
At least the last post discussions are constructive ideas and suggestion on what the independent eligibility rule could possibly be, rather than simply cryiing out we're being cheated cause rule does not match our citizenship laws.. which is an absurd argument.
At least the last post discussions are constructive ideas and suggestion on what the independent eligibility rule could possibly be, rather than simply cryiing out we're being cheated cause rule does not match our citizenship laws.. which is an absurd argument.
L
Labradoodle2
Guest
Going against Indonesia or Qatar boosting their teams through naturalization players isn't liberal either. The basis becomes ancestry...and rules based on ancestry aren't liberal. Israel gives citizenship based on ancestry /culture and they're not the most liberal country.
At least, with being born and raised in the country they are representing, ties are assured. Notice how I didn't mention citizenship or race or blood ties either? Just being born and raised in the country they are representing (regardless of citizenship)
If you think of it, if FIBA goes with the born-and-raised for NT, that will force Qatar to be inclusive of their non-citizen residents when it comes to sports development
Edit: aside from Qatar, wasn't one of the arguments for Hagop rule was that countries that have large diasporas have advantage that countries with smaller diasporas don't have?
Indonesia does not have a large diaspora in the US unlike the Philippines. The chunk of their diaspora is in the Netherlands which isn't really a basketball country. The Thai diaspora in the US isn't big either.
At least, with being born and raised in the country they are representing, ties are assured. Notice how I didn't mention citizenship or race or blood ties either? Just being born and raised in the country they are representing (regardless of citizenship)
If you think of it, if FIBA goes with the born-and-raised for NT, that will force Qatar to be inclusive of their non-citizen residents when it comes to sports development
Edit: aside from Qatar, wasn't one of the arguments for Hagop rule was that countries that have large diasporas have advantage that countries with smaller diasporas don't have?
Indonesia does not have a large diaspora in the US unlike the Philippines. The chunk of their diaspora is in the Netherlands which isn't really a basketball country. The Thai diaspora in the US isn't big either.
D
DAdmiral2
Guest
^
I'm cool with using:
# of years residency (years required goes down in scale depending on age- the younger less required)
parent born in the country
passport
People will figure out , that if a nation is a desired destination to live they get an advantage , which is really fair..
the reverse is also fair if people are fleeing the country then one should be penalized.,
I'm cool with using:
# of years residency (years required goes down in scale depending on age- the younger less required)
parent born in the country
passport
People will figure out , that if a nation is a desired destination to live they get an advantage , which is really fair..
the reverse is also fair if people are fleeing the country then one should be penalized.,
L
Labradoodle2
Guest
^^ I will revise what I suggested earlier. Perhaps the basis could be the number of residency during the formative years of the player should be the qualification as a local. For example, regardless of citizenship, if one spent their educational years (elementary, middle school, high school) in the country, that should be the basis of qualification for FIBA representation
Quits lahat if there's no if-then-else. Just one blanket rule. No loophole or any advantage to be exploited.
Quits lahat if there's no if-then-else. Just one blanket rule. No loophole or any advantage to be exploited.
N
neo2
Guest
We are being out-cheated!!!
fans are fans. being biased is part of it. fiba understand that.
now, if its sbp or a government official who cries foul, that's a different matter.
regardless of d approach, sbp should be strategic and not do things in haste (like they probably did with CS).
D
DAdmiral2
Guest
^
nah.. here is the opposite
1. It's based on each nations wimp citizenship laws , if one is a citizen based on marriage , so be it.
2. DNA , each nation is designated a primary ethnicity group ( if in NZ the english conquer the moari, sorry na lang , puti tayo) having 10 % DNA of primary enthnicy is pasado
by now you will know i'm joking.. but here is the thing, that is essentially what "many" Pinoys are actually saying , can you see how absurd it is
nah.. here is the opposite
1. It's based on each nations wimp citizenship laws , if one is a citizen based on marriage , so be it.
2. DNA , each nation is designated a primary ethnicity group ( if in NZ the english conquer the moari, sorry na lang , puti tayo) having 10 % DNA of primary enthnicy is pasado
by now you will know i'm joking.. but here is the thing, that is essentially what "many" Pinoys are actually saying , can you see how absurd it is
L
Labradoodle2
Guest
^^ The joke in some memes even is
"1/32 Filipino" then people say "Pinoy pride".
"1/32 Filipino" then people say "Pinoy pride".
N
neo2
Guest
it might be a misplaced or misguided pride for some of our fellow filipinos. but its a genuine sense of pride.
unlike what filipinos felt (no national pride at all) with d ron jacobs-coached national team that won d asian title in 1981.
unlike what many qatar citizens felt with their pre-2007 success in asian basketball.
L
Labradoodle2
Guest
I would not even call that "genuine pride". That's just really "thirst for external validation". Without any external validation, people say "nakakahiya maging Pilipino".
I compare it to the Igorot tattoo fad. Before Whang Od was featured by Lars Krutak in his foreign show, people looked down on Igorots with tattoos. The perception was it was "barbaric". But after it was featured by a foreigner, it became "Pinoy pride".
There's a reason why Pinoy click bait videos by foreigners abound so much. Capitalizing on Filipinos' clamor for external validation brings money.
I compare it to the Igorot tattoo fad. Before Whang Od was featured by Lars Krutak in his foreign show, people looked down on Igorots with tattoos. The perception was it was "barbaric". But after it was featured by a foreigner, it became "Pinoy pride".
There's a reason why Pinoy click bait videos by foreigners abound so much. Capitalizing on Filipinos' clamor for external validation brings money.
N
neo2
Guest
i have done studies on certain social psychology phenomena, i can say that it is is genuine pride for some filipinos in some of those cases.
again, we need to refrain from making generalizations about people's mindsets etc, especially if it belongs to d present.