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NBA worried losing players to Europe?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lietuvis2
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Lietuvis2

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Is the declining US economy going to kill NBA?

FoxSports said:
Maybe NBA commissioner David Stern and his minions should step up the process of expanding to Europe, or else ...

Just a week ago, the latest prep sensation from Oak Hill Academy, Brandon Jennings, snubbed his nose at both the NCAA and the NBDL, signing a contract to play in Italy next year instead. Never mind the money, the 18-year-old also says the competition level will prepare him better.

Was it a smart move? We may never know the answer to that question — depending on how Jennings develops and the speed of his route to the NBA. But that's not really what all the hoopla was about. What everybody wanted to know was whether or not Jennings is an isolated incident, or merely the tip of the iceberg as more non-qualifiers for NCAA Division I opt for the glamour of international ball as opposed to lesser college opportunities or the D-League.

I think it'll be just the tip of the iceberg as long as the NBA has a mandatory one-year wait after a player graduates from high school.

And it's not just about the teenagers.

With the knowledge that former Stanford All-American and Atlanta Hawks sixth man Josh Childress has reportedly accepted a three-year deal to play in Greece over restricted free agency with the Hawks, it's time to take another look.

There's something happening here, and it's painfully clear.

The struggling U.S. economy, the ludicrous salaries of the superstars that are strangling the NBA salary cap for the mid-range players and the prospective luxury tax hanging over the heads of owners has created a change in tenor throughout the league.

Although Childress is only a potential star, he is a big name because of his status in college and position as a lottery pick. It's the kind of consideration that turns heads, and if everybody has their eyes open, they can't help but notice a lot of those international players are heading back across the pond this summer.

Just last year, Tiago Splitter turned his back on the San Antonio Spurs after they drafted him in the first round. This came just a couple of years after the Orlando Magic drafted center Fran Vasquez from Spain, only to find out he had no intention of coming here either.

This year, it's changing even more. Over the past couple of weeks, those NBA free agents with international roots seemed inclined to leap. Carlos Delfino has left the Toronto Raptors and opted for BC Khimki; Bostjan Nachbar is finished with the New Jersey Nets and is on his way to Russia to play for Dynamo Moscow; the Memphis Grizzlies were so excited about acquiring Juan Carlos Navarro last year only to find him heading home to Spain to play for Barcelona next season. And Nachbar's teammate with the Nets, 7-footer Nenad Krstic, is reportedly mulling over an overture from Maccabi Tel Aviv in the Israeli league.

The reasons are obvious. A lot of young restricted free agents are getting nothing more than qualifying offers in the $2.5-million range, and the European teams are offering them twice that money with the much stronger Euro also trumping the dollar. Splitter, meanwhile, scoffed at the Spurs' offer because — thanks to the rookie salary cap — a handcuffed San Antonio front office was only able to offer half of what he got to stay in Spain.


Juan Carlos Navarro is one of several players who have picked euros over dollars. (Rocky Widner / Getty Images)

Even on a superb young team like the Portland Trail Blazers, you have to wonder how long talented Spanish youngsters Rudy Fernandez and Sergio Rodriguez will stick around if they don't get the money and playing time when teams from the homeland inevitably come knocking on their doors.

Mostly, though, the problems are strictly financial. There are tight restrictions for young players under the salary cap rules and the enormous salaries of the superstars (between $15-20 million) make up a huge chunk of each team's salary cap. Those big deals also push teams closer to the luxury tax, which means owners have to match dollar-for-dollar for any contract that goes above the $71 million threshold.

Moreover, this has manifested in other ways. Just ask Marcus Camby, who has led the league in blocks the past three seasons for the defensively challenged Denver Nuggets. The Nuggets gift-wrapped him and his salary to the Los Angeles Clippers for a conditional second-round pick. It was a stunning giveaway, not only because Camby is so talented, but he's also a leader on the team that has had more than its share of personality problems.

Even worse was what the Phoenix Suns did with Kurt Thomas last summer. How badly did they want to get rid of his $8 million contract? They traded Thomas and two first-round draft choices to the team formerly known as the Seattle Sonics for the $8 million trade exception. The Sonics later turned him over to San Antonio for another first-round pick.

Both teams were on the cusp of luxury tax. Translation: Taxation without trophy representation equals wholesale changes.

All you have to do is consider how badly the maximum contracts of five years ago have hamstrung teams. Just look at the Nuggets with Allen Iverson, the Knicks with Stephon Marbury and the Heat with Shawn Marion — all three are at or near $20 million. How the Washington Wizards could justify the $116 million they gave to Gilbert Arenas, who is coming off surgery on his left knee twice in six months, is beyond me. And that comes after guaranteeing $50 million to an aging and battered Antawn Jamison.


Soon enough — perhaps it's already here — these real problems with shrinking revenue will change the financial face of the NBA. And that's just one more reason why Stern will make the move to put expansion teams across the pond. Not only will it put more money into the overall pot from broadcast rights and increased apparel sales, but you can be sure there will be a hefty expansion fee to pay for the right to share the NBA moniker.

So before you get all bent out of shape about who, where, when and why players are changing countries so fast your head is spinning, understand that this is just the beginning. The only way to stop the bleeding is to join forces. That way, the money will ultimately touch everyone's hands, and the unavoidable revenue sharing will come in many denominations.

In the meantime, this summer will continue to have surprises, only to be outdone by next summer and the summer that follows that. And it'll continue that way until the NBA begins international expansion. The commitment has to come soon.
 
There seems to be a lot of buzz and articles that have jumped on the Josh Childress move, globalization of basketball, and how it will affect the NBA negatively.

Europe looking very attractive for NBA free agents (FOX Sports) the article Lietuvis referred to above, and is by Mike Kahn, one of my favorite sports writers...

Europe offers more than vacation to NBA players (Yahoo Sports)

Childress blazes trail to Greece (CNN/Sports Illustrated)

Childress' deal could signal increasing lure of Euro cash for U.S. players (ESPN)

Europe gives the NBA a run for its money (Globe and Mail)

Say Goodbye to Josh Childress, Say Hello to Some NBA Soul-Searching (ESPN)

Childress turns NBA on its head with Greek deal (Sporting News)

Stuart
 
Isn't European economy also kind of struggling a little bit? Maybe not as much as the US, but the banking crisis has affected it too. With that kind of thinking, ue could see LeBron James signing for a Chinese or Australian club hahaha
 
Players who chose Europe over the NBA for next season:

- Childress
- Jennings
- Garbajosa
- Nachbar
- Navarro
- Brezec
- Delfino

Any more?
 
rikhardur said:
Any more?
I think that for years there have been American players who could be in the NBA but have taken better positions overseas. Anthony Parker was like that for many years. Holden is the best example I can think of. He´s no Steve Nash, but I think he could man more than a few NBA teams. However, he gets more fortune and fame overseas than he does here. I really think there are a lot of players like that who don´t get as much press, mostly because they are not NBA starters, like the list you mentioned, Rik.

Clearly we're seeing a developing trend. The pendulum is swinging back to Europe, especially for international free agents like Delfino and Nachbar. A few Americans are jumping on the pendulum as well, and they will have good basketball careers in Europe. European clubs are still at a disadvantage for recruiting Americans because of the foreigner limitations.

However, there will continue to be many young Europeans and international players who come to the NBA and the NBA will continue to scout the farthest reachest of basketball for players.

So, I think we´re seeing a growth in a trend that has been around for the past 15 years.
 
rikhardur said:
Players who chose Europe over the NBA for next season:

- Childress
- Jennings
- Garbajosa
- Nachbar
- Navarro
- Brezec
- Delfino

Any more?

Pops Mensah is headed over too. Carl Landry of the Houston Rockets, a key player that helped to fill in for Yao when he was injured last year, and now Delonte West of the Cavs...

Stuart
 
well the fact is its much harder to make a name for yourself in the NBA unless you are extremely atheletic or tall, eg. Josh Smith, Lebron, as these things are just more markable than say something like 'he has good basketball iq'. (Tim Duncan? He is my fav player of all time but his jersey is never going to reach top 3 in sales, etc)

In the European style of basketball it is more about ball movement, zone defence, etc and not just about the individual style of play that predominates in NBA
 
What about Loren Woods, he also returned to Europe.

I think this was caused not by american crysis, but Rising of Euro Economics, look at Dynamo, they are throwing money in big amount like some ugly fat macdonalds multibillionaire texas monopoly dude. Hello MR Nachbar, here you are 2 budgets of Lithuanian clubs. They bought ULEB cup and this is not enough, they want Delonte West
 
rikhardur said:
Players who chose Europe over the NBA for next season:

- Childress
- Jennings
- Garbajosa
- Nachbar
- Navarro
- Brezec
- Delfino

Any more?

Maybe Dan Dickau or Jason Williams. Both are candidates to Maccabi.
 
alermac said:
Isn't European economy also kind of struggling a little bit? Maybe not as much as the US, but the banking crisis has affected it too. With that kind of thinking, ue could see LeBron James signing for a Chinese or Australian club hahaha

This is a monetary problem. Not an economic one. If $ rises again, how could Euro clubs offer 5M$? But, now, they offer 3M€, which makes 5M$. Chinese currency is indexed on the dollar, which I think is maintaining its rate quite high. It allows China to keep its prices low in dollars, whereas either, every economist thinks the money value would rise very high.
The day Australian$ rises a lots, multiplying its value compared to US$ bay 1.5 in 1-2 years, maybe they will be able to sign some NBA players as well. Now, a firm paying in € is paying much more than the one paying in $, and for economy, this is not good, as the firm manufacturing in the € zone are trying to externalize in $ zone, in order to manufacturate at a lower price, and sell in €, to sell at a higher rate.
But, when it comes to pay salaries, € gets much more interesting, which is the reason why Euro teams can pay higher salaries right now. if you ad to that the fact budgets in € seems to increase, it explains the new power of Euro teams.
 
Just out of curiosity...what do you think Luol Deng (restricted free agent)with his European citizenship would be worth on the European market -he is after all a restricted free agent.
How insane would it be if Panathinaikos (who is looking for a 3) went after him?
 
He's proved with GB he can play at good level in FIBA. He led them to 1st Euro div, now, we will see this summer if he is worth it, as he will ply qualifs. If GB goes to next Euro, I think we can say he is an interesting player for a big big team.
 
elaj said:
Jennings would choose NBA over Europe if he could.
i totally agree with you. the reason jennings went to europe is that he doesn't want to play college ball. he just wanted to turn pro that's why he chooses europe first since he is still not eligible to apply in the NBA draft because of that rule that you need to be 19 and 1 year separated from high school. all high school prep stars will eventually go to college for a year then to the NBA. just like what Greg Oden, OJ Mayo, Eric Gordon, Kevin Durant and Michael Beasley did. If the rule was not changed, these players could have jump in right straight to the NBA.

with regards to NBA players goind to euro teams, i don't think it can cause panic to the NBA. the players who signed contracts there are just averaged players while some used to play in their or they are from their. one thing you can you can notice in most of their contracts is that they have an opt-out clause in each year so if they wanted to go back to the NBA they can buyout their contracts or simply will just rescind it. since the free agent market in the NBA is not that big this year since most of the superstars have already extended their contracts, i suspect that these players just wanted to raise their marketability next year if they have a good showing in europe this season. media hype will play a major role in their quest for bigger contracts.

i don't think a euro team can afford to buyout kobe, lebron, agent zero's contracts. nor they can afford to offer dwayne wayne, dwight howard, deron williams more than they are getting in their respective NBA teams. NBA is still the most popular league worldwide no matter how much the dollar will rate compared to euros. so let's just wait next year who will be the first to rescind and go back to the NBA.
 
Oh, but that's where it all starts with... first it's fringe players, then mid-level guys like Josh Childress. Although I don't think Europe will ever be able to tap American players like LeBron, Kobe, Wade, or Dwight Howard (they might be able to get oddball Gilbert Arenas) because #1 NBA teams will offer up tons of cash to keep their superstars and #2 Europe cannot match the fame and endoresements...

But, they can keep taking mid level role players that aren't their team's main offseason concern and are restricted by NBA salary rules and qualifying offers.

I think the NBA should be a little panicked if they aren't already, this kind of move is significant because it makes the European leagues stronger in both reputation and on the court. Any Euro team, or international club for that matter, can walk into a negotiation and say "The NBA is offering you $2.4 million a year maximum? Here, we offer you $5,1 million and we pay all the taxes..." then they can walk out the door, not concerned about whether they irked David Stern or are in the NBA's luxury tax.

And it's not about whether they come back after a year or two, but the fact that they went over in the first place. Times are changing...

Stuart
 
yes, and how about great European players who decide to stay in Europe because of lucrative deals? I remember three NBA teams were interested in Papaloukas last summer. What if players like Stojakovic, Ginobili or Nowitzky never went to the NBA in the first place? Sure some players who stay in Europe to maintain their reputation may have been mediocore in the NBA or would not fit into the system, but some others may have become great stars like the ones mentioned above.

This means that qualitative players stay in Europe as well and are less tempted to go to the NBA. This is also an indication that the Euroleague keeps getting stronger and closer to the level of the NBA.
 
Victorious said:
yes, and how about great European players who decide to stay in Europe because of lucrative deals? I remember three NBA teams were interested in Papaloukas last summer. What if players like Stojakovic, Ginobili or Nowitzky never went to the NBA in the first place? Sure some players who stay in Europe to maintain their reputation may have been mediocore in the NBA or would not fit into the system, but some others may have become great stars like the ones mentioned above.

This means that qualitative players stay in Europe as well and are less tempted to go to the NBA. This is also an indication that the Euroleague keeps getting stronger and closer to the level of the NBA.

Very true, the NBA's draw was that it was the place to test that next level of basketball. Now with the lines becoming blurred, that's becoming less of the case. Especially with more and more players ULEB stars like Dejan Bodiroga in the past, as well as Papaloukas, Tiago Splitter, and Nikola Pekovic now are less and less likely to jump ship.

I mean, if Scola and Navarro had stayed in Europe this last season, and Rudy Fernandez this season, would they have been as tempted to jump to the NBA next season?

Probably much less likely with what has happened this summer, the NBA's reputation as the basketball end-all is certainly tarnished. The US had better win the gold this summer to stop the bleeding...

Stuart
 
What I think you will mainly see is a lot of players and agents using the European option as leverage in negotiations with NBA teams, rather than actually going overseas.

A big problem for European teams is their reputation in the US for not living up to their contracts--if Childress comes back from Greece with stories of not being paid in full and on time, that will put a stop to American NBA players going overseas pretty quickly.
 
Nice link here, especially this parts:

"it's not hard to see the incentive for European teams on the financials alone: Pay $300,000 to a potential first-round pick for a year, put a $500,000 buyout stipulation into the contract, and then turn a $200,000 profit while also filling a position for a year."

"So the European teams can sign 18-year-old players for a year, give them some experience in a pro environment, and both sides make money in the process. Everybody wins.

But the NCAA and NBA both lose big. One reason the league put in the age-19 rule is that it loves the free publicity it gets from having its player perform at the NCAA level before turning pro."

"They may lose even bigger than anyone thought, actually, because here's the part that nobody's thinking about: There's no rule that a player has to turn 18 before signing in Europe."

"imagine the next LeBron-esque basketball prodigy as a 15-year-old being approached by a team in, say, Barcelona or Rome or Athens. Imagine the sales pitch:

"Son, you can play for free for the next four years, make huge bucks for some college without ever being a paid a cent, and finally jump to the NBA at age 19 ... or you can play professionally right now, and we'll pay you millions of dollars and help you take care of your family immediately, and when you aren't playing your two games a week you can hang out at our topless Mediterranean beaches and sip a cappuccino. This isn't 1950 — we have McDonald's and iPods and malls just like the U.S., and half the people here speak English. And did I mention the topless beaches?"

In fact, if somebody with half a brain were running the European leagues as an entity instead of a series of loosely connected individual fiefdoms, they'd already be canvassing every All-American team in the country looking to establish themselves as a rival major league by inking a bunch of the best teenaged American players to long-term deals."
 
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