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Lithuanian Point Guards

  • Thread starter Thread starter Straight forward2
  • Start date Start date
Toruko said:
Well, first, he forced or better said subjugated the whole team into his archaic center-based system. It worked with a small team like Zalgiris where Saras was the star of the team but it wont work in a team like Barca with Stars. When you looked at faces in team Barca nobody was happy but they accepted his leadership. It didnt work out at last. He should have given more freedom to his backcourt. He has been trying ZOC too much but ZOC gave enough freedom to his stars and their decisions. Bogdanovic with Fenerbahce, Diamantidis with PAO etc. My first point: too much control and too old fashioned game style.
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To some extent I agree. He emphasizes bigs and precise, sometimes fanatic belief in set offense. On other hand, he's the one who pushes his players to trust their shots. He says you can shoot 3rd or 24th second of possession if that's a good shot. I think he fallen in love with too much control a little bit and goes a bit old school too much (IMO, he still believes too much in bigs generally and works too much with staggers for one dimensional players as Milaknis and Kuric), but on other hand you have to have in mind that he had to adjust to what he found in Barsa. He couldn't sign some Pangos, Micic and to play completely different basketball. When you have Calathes as main PG and there's only 2 guys in the team who can truly shoot (Higgins and Mirotic and the latter struggled in PO, Kuric is catch and shoot nothing more) you have to play different basketball than Efes :) IMO, he overdoes a little bit with that totalitarian system basketball, but nevertheless he's still a master of reading mismatches, utilizing individuals to their strengths and preparing spot on game plan. He just has to let it go a little bit, and I hope Sanli shooting at 5 will open up things for Barsa. I'm not a believer in Lapravittola, but to add more shooting guards is what Barca also lacked. We'll see.
 
Straight forward said:
Another highly ranked PG prospect 15yo Kasparas Jakucionis. Eurohopes rank him at 5th among 2006 generation prospects. I think he stepped a bit on NKL court last season and dominates his age class - MKL u15 23.8pts, 14.5rbs, 9.5as, 38eff. Seems like youngster will start his career in Spain, linked with BC Barselona. Maybe that's the homework of Jasikevicius already.
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Lithuanian media today threw a light on a matter finally. Jasikevicius didn't influence the departure at all (as he is not responsible for youth section), but Jakucionis met him and talked with him. Hood luck for the fellow. Hope he'll have better experience than Velicka (whatever happened there). I think that Spanish school is good for Lithuanians. Grigonis, Sedekerskis, D. Giedraitis all got benefits from Spanish BB school. Many portals wrote about him, but I share the one with broadest interview:

http://www.eurobasket.lt/naujienos/...u_klubas_prieme_siltai_116060/naujiena/116060
 
Youth level stats not always translate to PRO, but it's interesting to compare assists averages (per all Youth tournaments) of best Lithuanian PG prospects:

Velicka 5.3
Jokubaitis 4,7
Janavicius 4.4
A. Marciulionis 4.2
Kalnietis 3
Lekavicius 2.5

We can't count Jasikevicius as in his early youth tournament assists were not registered.
 
Straight forward said:
The rhetorical but reasonable question now could be whenever we are witnessing the best Lithuanian guard ever at this age? Jokubaitis has been fantastic for Barsa this week. Tonight dropped 22pts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOuSxynbMds&ab_channel=TresMasUno
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Jokubaitis is very good, but he has to play so more or less the whole season to make this question reasonable that is very unlikely to happen . You tend to overrate current youngsters (like you've done a lot with Sirvydis, Kulboka, Velicka and etc) and to forget a little bit how good were some from the past. Macijauskas at that age was already a tremendous shooter averaging in Rytas (and that wasn't a current Rytas) 18 pts with a huge over 50% 3pt shooting. Nowadays you almost can't see such numbers from anybody at any age. Who can surpass it? Realistically no one. Macas was too good. The only one name in my head is S.Marciulionis. i didn't see him in that age of course, but in about 2 years from that moment he was a USRS top scorer in EC taking silver and being named the 2nd best player of the tournament Galis being the 1st...Again, not imaginable today.
 
Dreamcatcher said:
Jokubaitis is very good, but he has to play so more or less the whole season to make this question reasonable that is very unlikely to happen . You tend to overrate current youngsters (like you've done a lot with Sirvydis, Kulboka, Velicka and etc) and to forget a little bit how good were some from the past. Macijauskas at that age was already a tremendous shooter averaging in Rytas (and that wasn't a current Rytas) 18 pts with a huge over 50% 3pt shooting. Nowadays you almost can't see such numbers from anybody at any age. Who can surpass it? Realistically no one. Macas was too good. The only one name in my head is S.Marciulionis. i didn't see him in that age of course, but in about 2 years from that moment he was a USRS top scorer in EC taking silver and being named the 2nd best player of the tournament Galis being the 1st...Again, not imaginable today.
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FOA, the off topic that you threw. How I overrated or overrate Sirvydis and Velicka? (I partially agree that I overdid with Kulboka in 2019/2020 season, but nevertheless he's still legitimate prospect).

SOA, I wrote it's rhetorical question, unanswerable. Why it's reasonable to ask this question already nevertheless? Because no-one at this age saw such level. As 20yo he already showed huge flashes of talent playing for EL contender, last year's EL finalist. That's the main reason, but it's also the reason why it's rhetorical. We have no comparisons of such cases. We don't know how Macijauskas, Siskauskas or Jasikevicius would adapt to such environment, we can't make this hypothetical turn. Even if Rytas was a hell of a team back than, the gap is still enormous, specially with Saras who punishes you after first harsh mistake. BTW, I exclude Rooney. In his prime he was the best Lithuanian guard, but not early on. Last week I watched couple of games of 23-24yo Marciulionis balling for Statyba and he was still wild player, a lot of crappy decision, misreads and so on. Terrific roaring athlete who dominated Soviet league off course, but nevertheless even 24yo Rooney was not even close to Jokubaitis decision making and thus I would have a lot of doubt Rooney could adjust to elite club early on. What you overlook (seems so) is Jokubaitis unprecedented maturity for such age. He literally steps on the court and legitimately run and very often lead Euroleague's contender, Barselona. There's no tiny drop of quality felt when he steps on the court, actually contrary, he has been the best guard along with Higgings for Barsa thus far. His decision making startling, he understands where to attack where not, his control of the pace and he has been shooting with great % both EL and ACB.

I don't know the answer, I very well know what kind of beast was Macijauskas, I miss such players so much. But I argue that elite EL basketball wise Jokubaitis may be the most matured and most ready 20-21yo Lithuanian guard ever. Even if numbers are important and you right that it's premature question a little bit, but he already has tools to play at such level, it's obvious. Did 20yo Macas, Saras, Rooney, Siska already had experience, IQ and decision making to play for EL contender? We don't know. While Jokubaitis has been delivering. Don't forget that he was really good all preseason long as well.
 
Here's interesting thing. Saint Saint Mary's Gaels listed Marciulionis as 195 lsb, thus 88,4kg. Jokubaitis is also 88kg, both similar height 193kg. Velicka is 195cm and 90kg. I always remember that Saras was 92kg, 193cm (Th, Walkup size exactly BTW). That seems to be absolutely spot on size for elite PG. But it's not so simple. F.e. Jason Kid was 193cm and he weighted 95kg. But there are also much lighter guys as Curry, 191cm, 86kg, or even Ja Marant 191cm, 79kg (both dominate NBA). Steve Nash was 191cm, 81kg, but he was pretty tough, so skinnier frame doesn't always mean you are soft.

However, there's what I find on typical PG size:

From our observations, the typical NBA point guard’s ideal height is 6’3” +/- 1” (give or take an inch) and is around 190 lbs. +/- 15 lbs.

Jokubaitis and Marciulionis have terrific, paradigmatic size for point guards, while Velicka nearly reaching the territory of SGs.

The typical NBA shooting guard stands about 6’5” +/- 1” and 205 lb. +/- 15 lbs

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/902463-overcoming-undersized-in-the-nba-for-guards
 
24 old Marciulionis already was Olympic champion and silver medal winner of EuroBasket and in both cases leading scorer on entire USSR team in those tournaments !

Marciulionis at 23-24 was nba level player 100% is not even debatable.

Compare 1980s player with 2020s player with desicion making is like compare 1980s computer to 2020s computer.

Knowledge is alot diffrent in 80s everybody was wild on basketball court in 80s because nobody even understood how to spread the floor correctly... Best teams was playing pathetic zones with very little movement :)

Compare achievements and dominance against same era people thats knew same things.

USSR men NT was higher level than best europes clubs in 80s. There were many friendly games between Ussr NT and madrid real with ussr winning way more times.

To be scoring leader in any Ussr NT that player already was considered top 5 europes player at that time.
 
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My point wasn't to say that 24yo Rooney wasn't a beast, he was absolutely the beast. But my point was that with such wild game, wild attitude, sometimes going against 4 opponents or making super risky passes he could have some problems adjusting to elite, more disciplined Euro club. But we don't know that. In Statyba he had all freedom, so he played this way. Maybe under different environment he would had been playing differently. NBA open game offensively fit him well.
 
Man, from this piece it doesn't sound like A. Marciulionis getting plenty of minutes. To ride the bench in mediocre NCAA team would be huge disappointment knowing that he would be snatching 15-18min in Rytas if he had stayed. We'll see.

There is great depth and size at the guard position for the Gaels. Returning starters, leading scorer Tommy Kuhse and 2nd team All-WCC Logan Johnson are backed up by junior Quinn Clinton, sophomores Jabe Mullins (6'6"), Leemet Bockler (6'7"), Luke Barrett (6'6") and freshmen Augustas Marciulionis (6'4") and Chris Howell (6'6"). This will allow Kuhse who led the team with 36 per game and Johnson with 32 minutes per game to play less and not be as worn down later in the season.

Bennett is particularly excited about his two freshmen recruits: "Marciulionis and Howell are both really good. It will take a little while for them to get comfortable and learn our offense and defense, but they are on track to be able to help us this year."

Marciulionis' father, Sarunis, played six years for the Warriors and is in the NBA Hall of Fame. "Sarunis is very familiar with the area and people really love him around here," Bennett said. "Augustas has got a lot to learn but having played against older and bigger players, he knows what to do offensively and it helps that we play a lot like the European teams."

http://www.lamorindaweekly.com/arch...-basketball-more-of-the-same-only-better.html

But! We should have in mind that Jasikevicius in Maryland played 6.1mpg first year and 9,7mpg in second year. In third year already played 29mpg. Really hope this is not the path for Marciulionis.
 
Italian wrote an article on Velicka's development. He speaks about three primarily skills of Arnas. 2 of them didn't surprise me, that's premium p'n'r and passing ability and elite slashing (explosiveness of the first step), but 1 was really interesting - improved shooting of the dribble and overall (thus far shooting great 42.1% from three). Interesting that Velicka's efficiency scoring in the pain reaches 72.7%. Two of his elite skills is slashing and p'n'r, he certainly has that.

The article by no surprise denies shawshank's false take on Velicka :)

Sharing whole article for those who wouldn't mind reading google translated:

Despite being a player who thinks first of the assist than the basket, his offensive skills are testified by the more than 11 points of average

Velicka is undoubtedly a modern playmaker for physical characteristics with an “old school” vision of the role from a technical point of view, more inclined to serve a free partner than to rely on personal initiative.

https://www-legabasket-it.translate...l=it&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=nui,sc
 
Good signs of Jr. Marciulionis NCAA campaign start (pre-season scrimmage). 20pts, (7/8), 6as, 35min. Plenty of good words as feedback. Hopefully it's an indication that his role will impactful right from the first game.

The big M

No, it’s not Momentum — we’ll have to see how that develops — but it is something that may become more important. Despite the warnings about predicting too much based on an intra-squad scrimmage, I’m willing to guess that Marciulionis is going to have an impact of Mills-like, Delly-like or McConnell-like proportions. It wasn’t just that he led all scorers with 20 points on 7-8 shooting and overcame his teammates caginess with six assists, it was his presence.

Marciulionis is of blue-blood basketball stock, being the son of ex-Warrior great Sarunas Marciulionis, and he wore that lineage throughout the scrimmage. He was born to have the ball in his hands, and he attacks defenses with daring and aplomb. He is always pressuring the lane, from either the left or right side, always looking for a weakness, and able to finish on his own with a drive, pull-up or three-pointer — he attempted only two, making, one, but possesses a smooth stroke that looks to be designed for distance shooting.

Gael assistant Justin Joyner, who coached Marciulionis’s White team, knew what he had, and kept the freshman on the floor for nearly 35 minutes. The Blue team tried to slow him down by switching Johnson onto him after Kuhse, a good defender, gave it a try, but it made little difference. Marciulionis is unruffled by pressure, and has the kind of ball control that makes it seem as if the ball is an extension of his hand. His low dribble in tight spots is a marvel to behold, as he seems to maneuver in and out of trouble with ease.

Kuhse and Johnson started at guard for the Blue team, along with Ducas, Fotu and Tass, and this group will probably start against a dangerous Prairie View team in the season opener next Tuesday (Nov. 9). But Bennett is no fool, and loyalty to Kuhse or not, will get Marciulionis on the floor early and often.


https://gaels360.com/
 
OMG, Marciulionis is also COMBO! :D 9pts, 2as, 2bl, 1stl in 18min. Seriously, solid start generally. I wonder if Marciulionis can really play more than say 22min as a 2 ways player. Usually 2 ways players work hard at both ends and tend to give their 100% energy. If Marciulionis will want to be a 30min anywhere, he'll have to learn tricks how to save energy. On other hand, I like those guys who gives you all in their 5 minutes stretches, they don't keep nothing in the pocket for tomorrow.

Pivorius with a strong NCAA start. He is a classy catch and shoot kind of shooting guard. I'm not a big fan of such breed, unless it's a really lengthy and athletic 3 and D kinda player, but Pivorius nevertheless has some real class in his shooting ability. If only he had at least more length, he's 6-2 (188cm) and you can't really survive at 2 with this. I checked all time best undersized NBA players of all time and there's no single SG among them. If you are playing 1 as undersized combo, you can survive, there's plenty of those like Iverson, Curry and ect. But if you playing without the ball at 2....I think it's really tough to make career at PRO in this case even if you are really good shooter.
 
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Off course, one could ask if Marciulionis agents (Rooney :)) did the best job knowing that Krissa is starting for Wildcats, while Marciulionis backs up super old student in Saint Marry's. Tommy Kuhse will soon be 24. The team is overfilled with guards. Well, but good ones get away with success if they really good anyway, as Saras said.
 
2 solid games and 1 off game for Marciulionis to start his NCAA campaign. He is playing 21mpg thus far. That's solid and I expect this to be pretty much his season playing time. Jasikevicius as 19yo was playing 9,7mpg for Maryland as it was his second year. First year he only played 6.1mpg. Now when you think how much Jasikevicius achieved in his career, he was very patient with his early NCAA career.

Here's Augustas' fancy pass between opponents legs:

https://twitter.com/saintmaryshoops...lionis-palygintas-su-nba-cempionu-875-1598156
 
Watched Velick'as team vs Bendzius' team in Italian league. Both played well. Bendzius hit one of clutch shots, but missed one of the game winning shots in last seconds. Velicka nailed game winning free throw, made 1 of 2, but that was enough to secure the win.

Listen, Velicka still learning how to play. His decision making is still far from perfect, shooting as well. But, boy, dude has physical profile. He's already an issue for the opponents. Changes directions easily while slashing, goes with force. Draw 10 fouls, 23 efficiency. He will probably never be perfect decision maker as point guard, but when he will learn basketball more and will be in his peak of physicality, he will be tough to handle. Pure basketnews.lt crew, particularly head editor, watching BB all his life, but still has no clue, no basketball eye test. At least Lekšas is the one in their team, he at least has adequate understanding of basketball and decent BB eye test. Really strong guard is growing. At the worst case scenario, he will be dominating in below average EL teams in his prime.
 
Big night for Jokubaitis also. Watched both Barsa's and Napoli's games at some point, and entirely Barsa vs Burgos in the second half. Jokubaitis also drawn 10 fouls, was very active, dropped 18pts. His confidence is huge, getting better with each game. I was sceptical at the beginning of the season, thought it would be better for him to play in Zalgiris, but I think he exceeds even Saras' expectations. Compared to last season he radically reduced stupid mistakes which was still very common playing under Schiller, he values each decision and knows that after 2 bad decisions he will hit the bench and it seems this really works for him, he barely turns the ball over. Now his defence is much more consistent already, he's nearly a solid defender already. Offensively he became even more explosive with the first step and added drive to his right, which we barely seen last season. He can really slash now to both sides, just that when he drives to right he still finishes with this left hand, he needs to add that right hand lay up into his arsenal of scoring. Now his three point shooting remains his main weakness. If at some point of his career he will become a good shooter and will add a three of the dribble, he may be incredible player in the making. His development has been tremendous and fantastic week for him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Hxuxg0I_I&ab_channel=FaltaTécnica
 
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That Velicka is good young upcomming combo slashing guard nobody argued. I like his character he doesnt look like softie at all.

People want see him in winning teams to see his real level.Now alot of unknown with him and his teams he played in.

Dinosour expert questions his desicion making (main thing of pure pg) and compliments combo guard traits like slashing and scoring.

But still gonna go to his grave with idea that Velicka is pure pg :)

There is nothing wrong to be combo scoring guard.Lithuania basketball can definetely use such in the future.

Especially seeing what levels Jokubaitis is reaching as Pg that runs highest quality team. We have Mantas succeder as main desicion maker for manny years.
 
That's because Velicka has more PG skills, facilitating skills and team running skills than nominal combo guard. He may not be absolutely perfect point guard, like elite pass firs PG, but he surely has more PG skills than typical shooting first combo, and less scoring skills than true combo. You'll get what I mean with time.

He's in the middle between combo and purest PG, and essentially he should be called PG, IMO:

Allen Iverson - Arnas Velicka - John Stockton
 
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