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Lithuanian Point Guards

  • Thread starter Thread starter Straight forward2
  • Start date Start date
Shawshank said:
Valanciunas is leader of 1992 generation
Grigonis is leader of 1994
Sabonis is leader of 1996
Sedekerskis is leader of 1998
Jokubaitis is leader of 2000 generation
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I think it's way premature to mention 20 year old Rokas Jokubaitis in the same breath as Jonas Valančiūnas, Domantas Sabonis or even Marius Grigonis. That's putting way too much pressure on a young fellow because it implies that he'll not be realizing his full potential if he falls short of their level of stardom. It's absolutely begging for disappointment.

Shawshank said:
Yes I think that Jokubaitis is not ready for this Olympics, because I saw how our biggest 3 young tallents of last decade looked at Olympics at similiar age.

Jonas at 20 in 2012, Sabonis at 20 and Grigonis at 22 in 2016.

But do I think it was mistake to take those generational tallents ? no I dont, it was right thing to do .

I don't expect nothing from Rokas in this Olympic summer, but expecting big things from him going further.

Jokubaitis is Kalnietis succeeder, he must get his feet wet in those NT tournaments as soon as possible, before we can dream he can seriuosly help our NT in most hardest position to play.

That kind of tallents I think is smart to take to NT sooner than later as investment for the future even in Olympic year.But also Iearned watching in first 1-2 years do not expect big things even from such generational tallents playing againts best men.

It takes few tournaments even for them to figure it out things.
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I find the idea of taking a young fellow who's not ready for the big stage simply scary. With the possibility of injuries and foul trouble, a fifth guard could easily become critical in not just one game but several.

Now I'm not saying that Jokubaitis shouldn't be invited to training camp. I think both he and Arnas Velička should be invited to camp. But if they're not among the five most game ready for serious competition guards at camp, I absolutely don't think they should be part of the twelve man roster.

:(
 
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It's really interesting to follow how these youngsters develop in terms of shooting. Jokubaitis looked much more convincing at the start of the season, really had some impressive shooting performances, with time he hit the wall physically and his shot started to fell off. Last season he had great % in LKL, but he really struggle this season, so consistency is not there. As matured player he will be better shooter, but his mechanics is unorthodox and he takes time a bit to take a shot off. Velicka has a very quick release, quite effortless shooting form and a deep range. Feels comfortable way beyond the arc like here - (https://th-th.facebook.com/basketba...willkommen-in-der-easycred/10159299163867022/). If he would have that shooter's sense, I would be highest on his as a shooter from three young studs, but I'm not sure if he's developing consistency. In LKL he shot 29,1%, in French league 31.4% in bundesliga this far 42.1%. So maybe we witnessing improvement. Marciulionis I believe improves most consistently. In NKL he had like 32%, now in LKL he shoots 37% and lately I can see that his shot is getting tighter and more polished. I don't think he has much of range, but just around the arc he feel comfortable, quick, good looking release and what I like that he can shoot of the dribble probably even better than catch and shoot.

So ATM some concerns about Jokubaitis shooting and likely he'll never be good at it, but I expect him to be solid at his prime (something close to Diamantidis or something like that). Velicka, IMO, will probably remain rather unpredictable shooter who goes up down wildly (would like to be wrong), while Marciulionis should eventually be reliable and dangerous shooter. Adding reliable shooter D. Giedraitis to the picture, as well as Grigonis will stick around till his mid thirties likely, we should be more or less solid at perimeter shooting.
 
Mindozas said:
Ok, I took my time: so yeah, there ar eplenty of them. Even that year with Augis, there were 12 players who had 2 or more steals. Augis led the way with 2,9. In 2019 there were 4 guys with 3+, one guy with 3,7, overall 14 with 2+. 12 guys in 2017 (Mannion with 3), then in 2016 there were 19 guys with 2+. In 2015 - 8 and Moraitis with 4,9 leading the way. That's probably enough to notice that tendencies are very different to senior game, let's say in Euroleague I barely remember when it was such case with 2+ steal per game. Nothing to take away from Augis, but as I said, it's different world. Taking stats from there and add senior game into conversation is not the right way to go. You can compare some guys performances in u16, maybe u17/18, but in senior game you simply won't find such stats in such big numbers.
Another thing to what Shawshank has written, it's not only risks, but in some cases the way steals are counted by statisticians. In some cases a big guy can hit the ball off rivals hands, guard will take him first and will receive a steal in stats sheets. That's a not really fair thing IMO, but that happens. Much better way is to watch the guy play and judge by it, stats might only help a bit
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Mindozas, I have to come back to our discussion about steals, not to deny on what we agreed, but to make some specific clarifications. There's a huge difference between u16 (or u18) steals stats and club PRO leagues (EL, NBA), but the difference between u16 and senior FIBA tournaments is not that big. F.e. In FIBA WC 2019 we have 8 players with at least 2 steals, Omar Abada with 2.6, Giannis 2.4. In 2016 OG there's 4 guys and Campazzo with 2.8 steals. In 2014 WC there's 5 guys and Rubio with 3.6. So the gap between U and senior FIBA levels is much lesser. While in EL there's Diamantidis with 1,6 career steals as all time best and Stockton with 2.2.

It's easy to explain, FIBA tournaments are more intense, physical and there's more open BB compared to more oiled, fixed and schematic (tactical) club basketball.
 
Marciulionis shooting in LKL: 51,7/41,4%//69,8%. Not too shabby for a guy "who can't shoot". He has a good shot to become a good shooter. The shooting form is nice, quick release, can shoot of the dribble.

18/19 NKL 26%
19/20 NKL 31.8%
20/21 LKL 41,4%
 
Velicka with another big game, 18pts, 9assists, 2 steals, 8 fouls draw, 22ef. Deserved a spot in Kaunas' NT camp or not? Off course, we can't have five point guards in the camp, but he's playing some ball in Germany already.
 
Straight forward said:
Velicka with another big game, 18pts, 9assists, 2 steals, 8 fouls draw, 22ef. Deserved a spot in Kaunas' NT camp or not? Off course, we can't have five point guards in the camp, but he's playing some ball in Germany already.
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Nt team will have 3 weeks prep only no time to bring 20+players,Maskoliunas should bring max 15-16 best players and no f***ing arround its Olympic summer.

Last window decided clearly that if extra 4 PG will be called to camp it will be Kariniauskas.
 
Shawshank said:
Nt team will have 3 weeks prep only no time to bring 20+players,Maskoliunas should bring max 15-16 best players and no f***ing arround its Olympic summer.

Last window decided clearly that if extra 4 PG will be called to camp it will be Kariniauskas.
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Yeah, I agree. But I would pay some to see Kariniauskas running Juventus for 34min and Velicka running Lietkabelis for 34min in this year's LKL semifinals :D That would be a spectacle.
 
Shawshank said:
Nt team will have 3 weeks prep only no time to bring 20+players,Maskoliunas should bring max 15-16 best players and no f***ing arround its Olympic summer.

Last window decided clearly that if extra 4 PG will be called to camp it will be Kariniauskas.
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I agree that Vaidas Kariniauskas should definitely be invited to camp, but with Mantas Kalnietis and Lukas Lekavičius that still only makes three.

When it comes to young fellows, I'm still leaning more toward Arnas Velička than Rokas Jokubaitis. Not only is Velička a year older, but he's simply been playing better.
 
Dude, Hepcat, you're missing one point here. There's no chance at all that Jokubaitis wouldn't be in the camp. It's written into a stone. It's done.
 
Hepcat said:
I agree that Vaidas Kariniauskas should definitely be invited to camp, but with Mantas Kalnietis and Lukas Lekavičius that still only makes three.

When it comes to young fellows, I'm still leaning more toward Arnas Velička than Rokas Jokubaitis. Not only is Velička a year older, but he's simply been playing better.
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Again you are judging by some stats and absolutely forget strength of clubs, it's like night and day
 
Straight forward said:
Dude, Hepcat, you're missing one point here. There's no chance at all that Jokubaitis wouldn't be in the camp. It's written into a stone. It's done.
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I'm all in favour of Jokubaitis being invited to camp. I just don't think he's ready for the Olympic team yet as a twenty year old.

:(
 
Mindozas said:
Again you are judging by some stats and absolutely forget strength of clubs, it's like night and day.
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My suspicion here is that Jokubaitis is getting the old Žalgiris boost from Lithuanian fans. Because Žalgiris is so widely beloved in Lithuania (outside of Vilnius of course), there is a distinct tendency to overrate Žalgiris players. Were Jokubaitis compiling the same Euroleague stats for Milan instead of Žalgiris, he'd have been noticed but he wouldn't be considered a shoo-in for training camp. And had he been compiling the same LKL stats for Pieno Žvaigždės as he has for Žalgiris, nobody would have even noticed.

;)
 
Hepcat said:
My suspicion here is that Jokubaitis is getting the old Žalgiris boost from Lithuanian fans. Because Žalgiris is so widely beloved in Lithuania (outside of Vilnius of course), there is a distinct tendency to overrate Žalgiris players. Were Jokubaitis compiling the same Euroleague stats for Milan instead of Žalgiris, he'd have been noticed but he wouldn't be considered a shoo-in for training camp. And had he been compiling the same LKL stats for Pieno Žvaigždės as he has for Žalgiris, nobody would have even noticed.

;)
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My suspicion here is that you simply don't know the players good enough, so now you try to blame us being biased, mate ;) I don't remember you blaming me on smth like that lately when I said Kalnietis is still our main PG over Lekavicius or the same Jokubaitis, I don't remember you telling me the same when I said Birutis or Miniotas is infront of Blazevic in NT windows and etc etc :)
 
Mindozas said:
My suspicion here is that you simply don't know the players good enough, so now you try to blame us being biased, mate ;)
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That though requires you to presuppose that for some arcane personal reasons I'm biased against Jokubaitis. That's simply not true. I hope he becomes a real good one - but I think that's going to take another year or two.

;)
 
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Hepcat said:
That though requires you to presuppose that for some arcane personal reasons I'm biased against Jokubaitis. That's simply not true. I hope he becomes a real good one - but I think that's going to take another year or two.

;)
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I don't think you are biased towards anyone ;) I think you are just not very well informed about some European leagues our players are playing and do the same mistake comparing their stats head-to-head. But there's nothing wrong with not knowing it, we are here to share the info. Overall Germany basketball league nowadays is better than Lithuanian one, but Jokubaitis still plays in Zalgiris, which is simply much stronger than Velicka's current club. We could compare them directly only if Velicka would play for Bayern Munich or Alba Berlin.
Overall, both of them still need few years to blossom, but currently Jokubaitis plays in higher level and does that not bad at all despite lot of up and downs which is normal for his age
 
All 3 of these dudes are meeting our expectations nicely. Seems that in couple years we will have some heated discussions over who should be the main PG etc ... :)
 
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