Lithuanian national team - 2012

[auris12]

I think it is about the time we talk ,just talk,between us.
What is the future for our national team?
The list of the players that should be leaving is in a way bigger than a list that we have coming.
Coach?
Under immense pressure Kemzura does not deliver.
He does not fail too.
Please,do share your opinion
And for mods,please,do not move this thread away.
It belongs here

 

[MrRager2]

Team for the Olympics(I hope we'll qualify):

PG: Kalnietis, Cizauskas(we should give him a chance, also Gecevicius and Kaukenas could play as a point guard)
SG: Kaukenas, Pocius, Gecevicius
SF: Maciulis, Jasaitis
PF: Kleiza, Jankunas, Motiejunas
C: Valanciunas, Javtokas

With all respect to Saras, he should retire from NT. He just cant be the team' leader anymore, and he dont want to be just a role player. He's not that kind of player. Songaila today stated that he would help Lithuania if he would be needed. But I dont see any place for him, except if injuries occurs. In SG spot we also have Seibutis, but they're similar players with Pocius, so it'd be unlogical to take them both and Pocius is at higher level as of today. I think Kemzura should stay as a coach, because in this EC I wasnt sure who was in charge, Saras or Kemzura? So i cant judge him.
Also, i'm not sure about Kleiza' situation for pre - Olympics. Will he be able to play? Because I know there are some restrictions within NBA contracts.

 

[Straight forward2]

Kemzura obviously staying because he didn't even mentioned the possibility of leaving and we already know federation wants him to stay. Well, I'm not the fan of such conformism, but over all I agree situation is questionable and let's say Kemzura deserves one more chance.

As for players, I will repeat my position: we have to say thank you and good buy for all veterans except Javtokas as I don't think he's already a veteran and also a natural part of 2010 team. I don't know if our coach will take this serious step, but I think it obviously has to be made and probably not too many people would disagree with that after 2011.

NT camp should look something like that:

Kalnietis, Delininkaitis* (Depending on the season - Vasiliauskas, Janavičius, Čižauskas)
Pocius, Gecevičius, Seibutis, Juškevičius
Mačiulis, Jasaitis, M. Kuzminskas
Kleiza, Jankunas, Motiejunas, Katelynas
Valanciunas, Javtokas, Andriuškevičius

* Would be good to change him with young player or to use Gecevičius at this point, who knows how to play p&r. If Delnas would show he's ready in preparation phase, let it be.

 

[hustlerlt2]

Team for the Olympics(I hope we'll qualify):

PG: Kalnietis, Cizauskas(we should give him a chance, also Gecevicius and Kaukenas could play as a point guard)
SG: Kaukenas, Pocius, Gecevicius
SF: Maciulis, Jasaitis
PF: Kleiza, Jankunas, Motiejunas
C: Valanciunas, Javtokas

Basically I agree with you,although I think that Saras should still be in the team.Even if he commits a lot of turnovers,he's still valuable as a PG comming of the bench and we don't have any high level PG's in our country at the moment anyway.I think Cizauskas should be taken to our NT and given the same ammount of playing time as Delininkaitis had in this tournament,unless he starts playing very well in our NT.

 

[Mindozas6]

Too early, waaay to early to think about the roster. Season is long, some players might blossom, new candidates appear, some might go down. I can only say the same like before - only the best should be there, be it Cizauskas, be it Saras, be it Motiejunas, Songaila, Gecevicius or even Babrauskas - I don't care. Olympics is not the place to make experiments, we have preparations for that. In 2013, with a new Olympic cycle, we can start building team for 2016

 

[Straight forward2]

Too early, waaay to early to think about the roster. Season is long, some players might blossom, new candidates appear, some might go down. I can only say the same like before - only the best should be there, be it Cizauskas, be it Saras, be it Motiejunas, Songaila, Gecevicius or even Babrauskas - I don't care. Olympics is not the place to make experiments, we have preparations for that. In 2013, with a new Olympic cycle, we can start building team for 2016

The only "little" problem is how to judge who is the best Kemzura was thinking Delnas was better than Gecevičius for example and he had his own reasons not depending on the seasons results and stats. Motiejunas was too young and so lacking experience, but the crucial mistakes was bade by Šaras and Songaila who despite the game against completely tired Dirk, was open hole in defence all tournament long...

Again, it seems like no-one even realising it was a f... failure this year and this "tolerance" and all chats how veterans will think about NT next summer IMO is not good.

 

[efap2]

PG:Kalnietis, Delininkaitis, Vasiliauskas, Janavicius, Cizauskas also maybe Saras(I know, I know... But he didn't say no and it's Kemzura's decision who should be in the team.)
SG:Kaukėnas, Pocius Seibutis, Gecevicius, Juskevicius
SF:Maciulis, Jasaitis, Kuzminskas
PF:Kleiza, Jankunas, Motiejunas, Songaila, Katelynas, K.Lavrinovic
C:Valanciunas, Javtokas Andriuskevicius, D.Lavrinovic

So we have 9 players which probably(Injuries possibility) will be in team next year, and more than 10 players who could fill others 3 players spots.
Don't forget that it's possible that qualification and Olympic(If we qualified) teams will be completely different.

 

[Mindozas6]

The only "little" problem is how to judge who is the best Kemzura was thinking Delnas was better than Gecevičius for example and he had his own reasons not depending on the seasons results and stats. Motiejunas was too young and so lacking experience, but the crucial mistakes was bade by Šaras and Songaila who despite the game against completely tired Dirk, was open hole in defence all tournament long...

Again, it seems like no-one even realising it was a f... failure this year and this "tolerance" and all chats how veterans will think about NT next summer IMO is not good.

Failure? You must get back to earth, mate What did you expect? Gold? medals? As I've wrote somewhere before tournament - Spain is clear favorite, then there're some 8 teams who possibly could fight for medals (didn't include FYROM, they were big surprise), we got the place we deserved and it's just how good we are. We could get into medals fight, we could be left empty handed... I'm satisfied atleast with what we've got.
If anyone could say our loss vs Macedonians were huuuge upset or failure, do they could the same after their game vs Spain, even before that they managed to lose to Russia with buzzer beater. Both of that teams I rate higher than us...
Also I remember how after Kleiza's injury most of the fans were shouting that we are doomed, 6th place would be good result, what happened then? We lost Maciulis, we lost Petras, partly we lost Javtokas, Ksystof and Songaila, who played with injuries or didn't play at all... And what a miracle we see now - finally 5th place is historical failure... I mean WTF?
Some needs reality check seriously. With Kleiza out we lost not only 20pts/10rbs player, we lost A LEADER, a guy who could carry the team in tough moments, lot of people underestimats this loss. Look at all the teams, who made to Top4, all have such player, even few, we lacked that badly...
And there's no need to bitch about veterans, about last year success, just remember how many key players all other teams missed WC and you'll get the picture, last year we just took advantage of it, but with that roster we probably would get our ass kicked even more.
Now we added players to certain positions, but sadly lost leader. Add Kleiza - we would be hell of the team, add all other players we missed and I'm sure we would be serious gold contenders. But not now...

No offense SF, just my 2 cents

 

[Mindozas6]

PG:Kalnietis, Delininkaitis, Vasiliauskas, Janavicius, Cizauskas also maybe Saras(I know, I know... But he didn't say no and it's Kemzura's decision who should be in the team.)
SG:Kaukėnas, Pocius Gecevicius, Juskevicius
SF:Maciulis, Jasaitis, Kuzminskas
PF:Kleiza, Jankunas, Motiejunas, Songaila, Katelynas.
C:Valanciunas, Javtokas Andriuskevicius

So we have 9 players which probably(Injuries possibility) will be in team next year, and more than 10 players who could fill others 3 players spots.
Don't forget that it's possible that qualification and Olympic(If we qualified) teams will be completely different.

I kinda agree, just would add Seibutis too from the ones who already established themsleves as serious contenders.
No idea about Bros... Too injury prone and can't play more than a season healthy and needs all summer rest, cause breakes after 1st training camps... Probably they are done

 

[efap2]

Oh yes Seibutis... I completely forgot about him.
I already edited my post, also I added both of Lavrinovic because of who knows factory... I mean they are possible candidates.

 

[Straight forward2]

Failure? You must get back to earth, mate What did you expect? Gold? medals? As I've wrote somewhere before tournament - Spain is clear favorite, then there're some 8 teams who possibly could fight for medals (didn't include FYROM, they were big surprise), we got the place we deserved and it's just how good we are. We could get into medals fight, we could be left empty handed... I'm satisfied atleast with what we've got.
If anyone could say our loss vs Macedonians were huuuge upset or failure, do they could the same after their game vs Spain, even before that they managed to lose to Russia with buzzer beater. Both of that teams I rate higher than us...
Also I remember how after Kleiza's injury most of the fans were shouting that we are doomed, 6th place would be good result, what happened then? We lost Maciulis, we lost Petras, partly we lost Javtokas, Ksystof and Songaila, who played with injuries or didn't play at all... And what a miracle we see now - finally 5th place is historical failure... I mean WTF?
Some needs reality check seriously. With Kleiza out we lost not only 20pts/10rbs player, we lost A LEADER, a guy who could carry the team in tough moments, lot of people underestimats this loss. Look at all the teams, who made to Top4, all have such player, even few, we lacked that badly...
And there's no need to bitch about veterans, about last year success, just remember how many key players all other teams missed WC and you'll get the picture, last year we just took advantage of it, but with that roster we probably would get our ass kicked even more.
Now we added players to certain positions, but sadly lost leader. Add Kleiza - we would be hell of the team, add all other players we missed and I'm sure we would be serious gold contenders. But not now...

No offense SF, just my 2 cents

I'll say clearly were is the failure - the loss against Macedonia. That's it.

As for complains about the injuries and so on...I don't buy that, except the fact that Kleiza is the key for us. All other is just excuses, no-one forced to cut Motiejunas and to stay with one and only ready to fight Jankunas at 4. No-one forced to cut Gecevičius or Seibutis. I mean there were options so we have no reason to cry about the injuries. It wasn't like we were missing entire core as it was in 2005, 2006 and 2009.

I hope some conclusions will be made because it seems like everybody is so happy with that 5th place.

 

[Mindozas6]

I'll say clearly were is the failure - the loss against Macedonia. That's it.

I also thought so after the game - failure, tragedy, but later changed my mind, basically after saw Macedonians givin' a fight to Spain (where I predicted easy game for Spaniards with +20 or so ), then 2nd time in a row makin' sweat Russia till last seconds. FYROM was not a fluke, now it's obvious, we lost to a good team, which was on a roll, just it got no name, that's why so much of a dissapointment that loss brought, but as we see now, this team isn't that much worse than Croatia, Slovenia, Greece or the same Russia and even better than some of them...

As for complains about the injuries and so on...I don't buy that, except the fact that Kleiza is the key for us. All other is just excuses, no-one forced to cut Motiejunas and to stay with one and only ready to fight Jankunas at 4. No-one forced to cut Gecevičius or Seibutis. I mean there were options so we have no reason to cry about the injuries. It wasn't like we were missing entire core as it was in 2005, 2006 and 2009..

Not only Kleiza, but another key player - Maciulis. And there's no excuses or smth. Just pure facts. There're always options, just you can't always hit the right ones. Sometimes by readin' some opinions (not yours), it looks like Kemzura made mistakes on purpose
Btw, Gecevicius or Seibutis wasn't a mistake, especially the latter. Kaukenas and Pocius were really good at SG. Kaukenas was poor at preparations, very poor, Pocius too, but at the right time they delivered - it was right decision.
And we all know (atleast I hope so) why Delnas was brought, but even he didn't see almost any minutes nor ar PG, nor at SG and was at deep end of the bench.

I hope some conclusions will be made because it seems like everybody is so happy with that 5th place.

Not happy, but satisfied, no need to be so hyperbolical

 

[Straight forward2]

Mindozas, I wasn't thinking it was a tragedy even though I still think that the loss was shameful because Macedonia wasn't that good that night as they were against Spain or even Russia in the small final. What I'm thinking it's a simple failure. Kazlauskas retired in 2001 even though it wasn't so hard to see it was one tournament loss, the generation was red hot. But he showed some balls and paid the price.

The loss is one thing. The fact that we didn't play a single good game in the tournament (against Serbia it was close to that, but defence was horrible) is another. Basically we were struggling all tournament long. Some say it's objective reasons, veterans are not as good as it used to be and I partly agree, but the team wasn't so bad, it's just Kemzura wasn't good enough to make more from it. I'm not saying Kemzura is a bad coach, but in my account he's more limited than people thought after 2010. Half court offense looked pretty bad both years 2010 and 2011. Kemzura couldn't pick the right game style for current players. He knew Songaila and Ksistof are not 100% ready for the champ, but still refused hard working and 100% ready Motiejunas. Also he made mistakes with rotation against Macedonia and got involved with "Šaras stuff"...And because of that I hope there won't be Šaras next year.

However you look, Kemzura deserves criticism and should be seriously discussed.

 

[LuDux2]

I was impressed how coach who coached NT with Sabonis in 1999 showed some balls

 

[Grinder2]

Is Siskauskas officially retired from the national team?

I'd like to see this Lithuanian team in 2012:
Kalnietis / Jasikevicius / (Cizauskas)
Kaukenas / Pocius / (Gecevicius)
Maciulis / Jasaitis / (Obviously Siskauskas if he'll play)
Kleiza / Motiejunas / Jankunas (or Songaila)
Valanciunas / Javtokas / (or Petravicius)

A lot depends on how the younger guys perform this year.

 

[Straight forward2]

I was impressed how coach who coached NT with Sabonis in 1999 showed some balls

Well, you can't blame the coach when there's Sabas in the team and you still lose. That means the mission was impossible And still the difference is that Lithuania dominated in the tournament till the game against Spain, contrary to NT this year.

 

[auris12]

Where do i start - half of me is still mad after loss to Macedonia,really really mad.My two kids went to bed right after they heard me swearing,more than an hour before their bed time,because before that they were basically abusing their privileges and getting away with that,but probably realising just in time that was that.
Another half of me is currently crunching numbers, and it does not look that bad.
We had no chance vs Spain.A bit more against Russia, but still,it would had been nerves and so much harder to take for me a loss if they lost bronze.
5 is just after 4.I know it is silly,but here is another thing - we have to look at the teams we left behind.19 of them.17 of them are done for Olympics.
There would not be this topic if we joined them numbers.
So at least,at least we have next summer to look forward.
Night is young then,whole year for us again to keep really disliking each other again etc)

Back to the topic.
True,it is hard to say who should be on the team( i will have a go),even more so who will be.
Kalnietis was chosen the best player for this time around(not sure about survey though).
Not for me though - my personal favourite was Jasaitis.
Kleiza,no doubt.
Valanciunas/Javtokas combo.
And that is it for me right now.
Definitely Kaukenas if you take his performance,but next year he will be 35.
So,no.
Pocius needs to grow some balls,same as Jankunas.One good game,one half -arsed game.
Maciulis - 50/50 for me -if he can recover,no doubt he is on my list.
Seibutis/Motiejunas/Gecevicius - yes,they can.Will they?That is reasonable question.
No other player can be considered important per se in my opinion.
I still think we should be thinking about core players,not just having arguments who should be 12th player.
Anyway,feel free to disagree

 

[Mindozas6]

Mindozas, I wasn't thinking it was a tragedy even though I still think that the loss was shameful because Macedonia wasn't that good that night as they were against Spain or even Russia in the small final. What I'm thinking it's a simple failure. Kazlauskas retired in 2001 even though it wasn't so hard to see it was one tournament loss, the generation was red hot. But he showed some balls and paid the price.

The loss is one thing. The fact that we didn't play a single good game in the tournament (against Serbia it was close to that, but defence was horrible) is another. Basically we were struggling all tournament long. Some say it's objective reasons, veterans are not as good as it used to be and I partly agree, but the team wasn't so bad, it's just Kemzura wasn't good enough to make more from it. I'm not saying Kemzura is a bad coach, but in my account he's more limited than people thought after 2010. Half court offense looked pretty bad both years 2010 and 2011. Kemzura couldn't pick the right game style for current players. He knew Songaila and Ksistof are not 100% ready for the champ, but still refused hard working and 100% ready Motiejunas. Also he made mistakes with rotation against Macedonia and got involved with "Šaras stuff"...And because of that I hope there won't be Šaras next year.

However you look, Kemzura deserves criticism and should be seriously discussed.

I agree on some points, on some don't, but I already wrote my opinion, so probably no need to repeat myself again. Regarding critics, of course he deserves critisism, he made mistakes, like everyone else, but that critisism should be healthy and help to move forward (with or without him), if you know what I mean.
Regarding Kazlas, just a food for thought: what we could've reach if not his assistent Sireika, but Kazlas himself would have lead our NT? Ok we won EC, but it was clear that we missed a coach, Sireika followed stricktly the plan of Kazlas and couldn't make any changes by himself when it was needed.
It was mistake for him to leave, cause as you wrote, it was obvious that it was 1 tournament loss. He created that team, had system, tactics and had full respect of the players, while Sireika didn't and even there were serious talks that some players didn't want to play under his "guidance" (as example remember OG semi, that was a true and real failure).
So no need to rush the things up...

Is Siskauskas officially retired from the national team?

3 years ago

 

[Rycka2]

PG. Kalnietis, Jasikevicius
SG. Pocius, Seibutis, Kaukenas
SF. Maciulis, Jasaitis
PF. Kleiza, Motiejunas, Jankunas
C. Valanciunas, Adriuskevicius

 

[arturcia2]

Lithuania NT 2012:

PG. Kalnietis, ? (one of Jasikevičius, Čižauskas, Vasiliauskas)
SG. Pocius, Seibutis, ? (one of Kaukenas, Gecevičius)
SF. Mačiulis, Jasaitis
PF. Kleiza, Motiejūnas, ? (Jankūnas or Katelynas)
C. Valančiūnas, Javtokas

In the first stage of preparation: Andriuškevičius, M. Kuzminskas, Juškevičius, Dulkys, Čepukaitis.


And no more D&K Lavrinovič, Petravičius, Lukauskis, Delininkaitis....