Kaunas Zalgiris Thread

[Hepcat2]

Hopefully Maskoliunas learned thing or two in last 5 years with Saras and will show in our NT some defences too next summer, when he will get more than 3 days to prepare team.

Maybe, maybe not. How long was the Team Lietuva mini training camp in July? Don't forget that the team below (which looked a lot better on paper than the team that will play today) gave up 92 points in 45 minutes against Estonia:

Mantas Kalnietis - PG
Lukas Lekavičius - PG
Rokas Jokubaitis - PG
Tomas Dimša - SG
Marius Grigonis - SG
Edgaras Ulanovas - SF
Arnas Butkevičius - SF
Tadas Sedekerskis - SF/PF
Arnoldas Kulboka - SF/PF
Eimantas Bendžius - PF
Laurynas Birutis - C
Marek Blaževič - C

 

[Svajunas2]

Jesus, forgot about that. This team looks so much better.

ONe thought crossed my mind in the suffering yesterday. Maybe in a such a short period of preparation coach should give more freedom to the players? It was obvious watching when Birutis tryied to post up time after time, or when Miniotas didin't take the open three... They were trying to play after plan, while lesser opponents has beaten them again with share will.

 

[Straight forward2]

Saras didn't miss an opportunity to encourage his project Vasturia, naming him among 4 creative Zalgiris' players I believe he meant Jokubaitis, Grigonis, Walkup as the rest and Lekavicius as one of those "who knows their role well". It's more than understandable, but to me Walkup and Vasturia do not qualify as creative players per se Walkup to me is still just a crazy project at 1, if not his great D and hustle he would be out of EL because he can't play 2 and he's not 1, Zalgiris wasn't able to sell him if I'm not mistaken, there wouldn't be much EL teams that would want Walkup is PG, IMO. And Vasturia is just lacking a little bit of class, just needs to be more polished and skilled, to be truly valuable EL player, but with the ball in his hands he likely would be a little bit more effective. In other words, those 2 are creative players under Saras control, but not under status quo EL environment,

 

[Hepcat2]

One thought crossed my mind in the suffering yesterday. Maybe in a such a short period of preparation coach should give more freedom to the players? It was obvious watching when Birutis tryied to post up time after time, or when Miniotas didin't take the open three... They were trying to play after plan, while lesser opponents has beaten them again with share will.

You could be right. I've also been wondering whether Coach Maskoliūnas' failing may be that he's trying to instill overly complex systems in too short a period of time. K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid) is the operative byline for a coach in these short windows.

 

[Straight forward2]

Greens stayed in the game with Barsa pretty nicely. Jokubaitis continues to deliver, he's now third best scorer of Zalgiris with 8,8ppg. It's refreshing to see his elite size, toughness, skill and IQ for a point guard. From Lith guards he felt most comfortable against arguably the best defence in Europe. Lekavicius is too small to bang with big guards, even Grigonis struggles with it. Despite a loss it was really enjoyable game. Youngster's development has been so insane that now I'm not sure who will be the best Zalgiris' guard at the end of the season.

 

[Dreamcatcher2]

Actually a very bad quality game. Barca made 24 turnovers that is too much for them, i'm too lazy to find out when the last time they made so much turnovers but definitely not this season. Add 19 turnovers by Zalgiris and that is 43 turnovers in the game. I checked Calathes career stats and his 7 turnovers today is his EL career high for only 2nd time in his 9 seasons. He had 8 in his only one Eurocup season. But in spite of the crapy game Barca stil can win because of defense. Bad 3pt shooting didn't help Zalgiris as well.

Jokubaitis had a very good and brave offensive game but his missed open dunk may cost an ending as instead of -1 it happened -6 and after that Zalgiris wasn't so close.

 

[Shawshank2]

Game was awfull level wise. Too many tournavers,bad desicions.

Jokubaitis more and more looking to be generational tallent. I doubt ltu basketball had guard who was playing that well on that level at age of 20.

When Rokas comes in he shines with some kind 'overhelming energy' feeling ,only great ones generates it .

That kid has something special in him.

 

[Straight forward2]

Jokubaitis more and more looking to be generational tallent. I doubt ltu basketball had guard who was playing that well on that level at age of 20.

Could be the case, indeed. However, 20yo Macijauskas was dropping 18,2ppg for LKL champs Rytas (they also reached Saporta cup's semifinals), and we don't really know how 20yo Ronney and Saras looked, the same Siska was dropping 15ppg for contender Rytas. Those 4 players is a good competition.

Shaw, your projection doesn't really panning out, right? I remember you said that after Kalnietis/Seibutis/Pocius backcourt we might face even harder times guards wise. Not only Grigonis/Lekavicius instantly reached the heights of such level, but we have some real word class material ripping. I knew that Lithuanian basketball has too deep roots not to expect a leap after dreadful decade which was even too long. The bar was really low and the growth was inevitable. It's not like we had elite basketball for 2 decades since 90s as some fluke. It's more like 10's was the slump and now we should be reaching our status quo again, climbing back among top 5 NTs in the world and realistically contending again. My expectations are specially high for the mid 20s and second half of 20s.

 

[Svajunas2]

Question would Macas or Siska drop 18 or 15 per game in todays basketball. Where rosters in f.e. Zalgiris are way deeper?
Or would Grigonis drop 18 per game in 2000s Rytas?

I mean the game changed a lot.

 

[Straight forward2]

Question would Macas or Siska drop 18 or 15 per game in todays basketball. Where rosters in f.e. Zalgiris are way deeper?
Or would Grigonis drop 18 per game in 2000s Rytas?

I mean the game changed a lot.

It's not way deeper That Vilnius team was stacked. Aside big three in R. Siskauskas, A.Giedraitis, Eric Elliot, they had super prospect Macijauskas and red hot athletic Javtokas as youngsters. IMO, that team was more talented than this Zalgiris, there's no question. The fact is that there's no player of Siska's level in this Zalgiris. Grigonis is close, but he's not there and never will be. Siska was athletic all arounder, 2 ways freak with tremendous IQ and the glue guy at the same time. Macijauskas, IMO, was also better than current Jokubaitis, but Rokas may have even higher upside, but not necessary as well cause Macas' prime was rather ridiculous. Sure, now players a bit more disciplined and there's more scouting, but come on man, it was already the same modern basketball. Grigonis wouldn't be dropping 18pts in that team because he would probably be third best player in that team.

 

[Shawshank2]

For me both Macas and Siska is generational tallents too.So if only they are Jokubaitis competion at that age it's only prove that Rokas is showing he is generational tallent.

Sure I didn't see that zalgiris had on their bench generational tallent even 6 months ago.

That were my formula under 22 on highest level doesn't work.With Generational tallents, with other 95% of young players it works just fine.

Krepsinis.net did best euroleague players u22 Rokas is by far the best and he just turn 20.That generational tallent.

It can change hierarchy of backourts for sure, generational tallents gives team edge from nowhere and with such tallent you usually can overcome alot.

But that group must win medals at some point.To be seriuosly consider good backourt lineup.

Grigonis Lekavicius already started their peak and maturity years no more excuses for them for not winning in playoofs + they looks like got generational guard play alongside not every lithuanian guard lineup had that.

Ltu NT 2014-2018 was weaker than NT since 2019 tallent wise no doubt .But tallents is one thing ,team must show that in playoofs

 

[Straight forward2]

But that group must win medals at some point.To be seriuosly consider good backourt lineup.

Grigonis Lekavicius already started their peak and maturity years no more excuses for them for not winning in playoofs + they looks like got generational guard play alongside not every lithuanian guard lineup had that.

Ltu NT 2014-2018 was weaker than NT since 2019 tallent wise no doubt .But tallents is one thing ,team must show that in playoofs

This is not really fair asking. If Kalnietis and Seibutis reached 2 huge overachievements, where a lot of pieces dropped down the right way for us (Kazlauskas, the draw, great peaking time, the decline of some powerhouses, ect.) and medal collections, it doesn't mean Grigonis and Lekavicius can expect the same. Your beloved stretch is simply an exception, a miracle, call it however you want. That 2010-2015 stretch is an exception. Specially, 2015. 2010 and 2013 at least we were really deep, while 2015 was a miracle, nothing less. We didn't have medal worthy roster and we overachieved. It's a myth that Lith NT always overachieve. It happened only in such short stretch. In 90's and 00's we had plenty of under achievements with medal worthy rosters. Grabbing medals is harder than it seems, we are super consistent and (having in mind early 10's) lucky to snatch 9 medal collections in 28 years. So to ask from Grigonis and Lekavicius to snatch medals is unfair. We will contend for medals objectively again if we will enforce our backcourt to the elite level again. They alone is not enough, miracles doesn't happen every tournament even if you wearing Lithuania's jerseys.

The addition of current Jokubaitis is probably also not enough to expect us to reach elite level, unless Rokas would continue to shock people with his instant development and would be doing big things in OG already. The way I project, we will likely be elite again if Jokubaitis (well, with him there's no question any more), Marciulionis, Velicka will prevail into a real force. Differently than Grigonis, all three have elite physicality to become true world class force. To me, Grigonis will probably always remain boderliner great because of his physical limitation. Players as Grigonis, D. Giedraitis, Lekavicius should be a nice complementary pieces after 3-5 years for these three studs, specially Jokubaitis and Marciulionis. Now that very likely would be a backcourt to ask objective contending in each tournament. You're too loosely asking medals from solid, but not elite rosters.

 

[Mindozas6]

5-0 run to finish the year, 10-7 in first half of regular season - that's something positive. I guess lot of Z fans would've taken 10 wins out of 17 before the start of the season It seems Vasturia's injury was only for the better not that I have smth against him, but Hayes played more at SF and I wrote lot of times that ffs unleash him, he is not that 3&D player only to stretch the floor like in Saras schemes, I still don't get it why he was used mostly this way, he was much more versatile in Galatasaray, now he is having ball in his hands for more time, he gains more confidence and that is very important for him, then with Hayes at SF, Jankunas is simply doing great at PF for his age, in all 5 wins double digit efficiency, and lot of dirty work in the paint, great to see captain contributing again. Milaknis being a starter also found his shooting touch, not too stable, but he is making shots. Nothing much to add about Grigonis, there are up and downs, but so far he is living up to expectations - 15ppg/16eff,>50% 3s, leadership, clutch shots. Rubit was a bit slwoed down yesterday, but overall solid, gives us range. I'd love to see Lauvergne involved into the game more, at times it looks like he is simply forgotten. And eternal issue - creative PG. In such physical battles like against both German clubs you can spot that problem the best, it's the biggest issue, Walkup simply isn't the one you need to run the offense then. Jokubaitis is till a bit too raw, Lekavicius is having tough time against more physical teams. But overall so far so good. Defense improved, coaching improved, Schiller surely learned some lessons. And there are chances to fight for PO, even tho I was sceptical about it before the season and still kinda am as big clubs usually switches to higher gear in 2nd part of the season, but there's a hope and that's good

 

[Shawshank2]

game of basketball is not rocket science.If team is playing seriuos defence,you give yourself a chance to win games even with limited offence that how Kazlauskas was doing his magic with NT.

Chimky can score 90pts in every game,but if they allow over 95 they will finish season 7-27 with such antidefence and thats offensive power they have wont help them .

In 8 game streach were team went 1-7

Zalgiris allowed: 94+74+93+85+87+98+83+73 thats on average 85,9pts

In 5 game winning streak : 69+73+62+73+71 thats on average 69,6 pts


Yes opponenets were weaker,but still hold 5 euroleague teams on average under 70 fantastic job by entire team.

Well done coach Schiller for learning fast what wins on his level. Obviuosly zalgiris wont go winning like that when they again gonna meet those elite teams,but atleast such type defence gives best chance for average level teams .

Hayes was fantastic as wing defender in this streach after Vasturia injury.

 

[Straight forward2]

I like Schiller more and more, he's like baking pie, get's bigger with each hour of ball game I love how he tolerates some dreadful TOs of Jokubaitis I felt that this will turn out well for Zalgiris, Schiller can develop into elite EL coach.

We have our own Hayes in Sedekerskis, so many similarities skill and mentality wise... I bet Tadas after 4 years will be as good if not better.

 

[Mindozas6]

Lately I've read lot of good words about Tadas in Baskonia fans forums, it seems nobody expected from him such contribution, toughness, defensive game. He is on a right path as it seems. Wouldn't be surprised to see P-Mo trying to get him one day.
And regarding Schiller indeed, like I wrote a month ago, exactly what I liked about him from the start and the reason why was willing to give him more time instead crucifying - that he is open to learning, not that stubborn know-it-all US based coach to come and teach us the game of basketball. Like there was Larry Brown in Italy story. Of course there'll be losing streaks, bad moments, but now I'd say that risk to sign him for peanuts paid off

 

[Straight forward2]

I love how Grigonis is growing and he's playing great, but it's a bit too eraly to put him in the same category with players like Saras, Macas, Siska, Stombergas. He will be properly tested when he will be surrounded by other great players and would still prevail as one of the keys. Than he will belong to this breed. We'll see next season.

 

[Mindozas6]

I love how Grigonis is growing and he's playing great, but it's a bit too eraly to put him in the same category with players like Saras, Macas, Siska, Stombergas. He will be properly tested when he will be surrounded by other great players and would still prevail as one of the keys. Than he will belong to this breed. We'll see next season.

Journalists who are trying to create some sensational stories, based on stats, didn't even saw all these legendary Liths playing. Grigonis still has long way to go to be in the same category. With clubs, with NT

 

[Shawshank2]

Siskauskas,Jasikevicius,Macijauskas,Kleiza was only 4 ltu players that was leaders of euroleague final four team in last 20 years + leaded NT to medals too.

Grigonis still have long way to go to be mentioned with them, but Marius is by far most tallented offensive ltu player since Kleiza retired and those numbers shows that.

But again until player leads his club or NT to seriuos achievements those individual numbers means very little.

 

[Straight forward2]

Even though Lith bball talent bin gets fuller with almost each minute now (IMO), I see some deceiving projections and expectations already, like "look, we have highest level NBA player in Domas and Grigonis in EL, we gonna win some now". Ermm, not...not exactly. If it would be Macas dropping 20ppg for TAU or SISKA dropping 14ppg for filthy stacked CSKA, then this statement would be legit. Grigonis is gutsy guy and he will play due to his abilities, but some other dudes could even collapse because of such hype and asking to bring NT medals. He's not a player who could be the key to lead NT to medals, IMO, at least not yet and I'm not particularly believe he is generally a player of that class. I see him more like a very solid piece for our backcourt and if we will add other very solid or good pieces around we would have a backcourt to contend. I don't ask contending from NT as of yet.

Jokubaitis hitting a rookie wall a little bit? Great game in LKL hitting everything (17pts), but last five rounds for him was a little bit of slump which is normal.