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Kaunas Zalgiris Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Straight forward2
  • Start date Start date
Dreamcatcher said:
Why then all Zalgiris fans are so happy? No way in the past Zalgiris would secure a leader who provided that much in EL. Francisco is among top10 EL guards this season. Who you think Zalgiris could sign instead of him? It would be crazy not to resign him if it's possible.
The main failure was bringing Walker and the way Trinchieri treated all that situation. Also, Manek and Mitchell were useless. Add here Williams who was supposed to be the among the best players and you get minus three foreigners which is very bad. In addition, front court is pretty weak.
Francisko was the least problem here. He was very good in general and amazing in some games. And you underrate him saying that he can't pass - he averages 4.3 ast.
Generally, I always considered Trichieri as a fairly solid coach, but I didn't like him in this EL season. I think that Zalgiris could look and do not worse with Maksvytis.
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I agree with what you say, it's just that my point is - let's not underrate the down side of Francisco. Zalgiris often sucks at ball movement and this guy is the main reason why cause he's with the ball the most time. I even think Zalgiris would be in better position if Iggy tried to close more games and surely such player as Sirvydis would be much better cause often he just stands open and there's no elite passers on the team. Ulanovas still the best passer on the team. So while it's OK to assume Francisco is not a problem and Zalgiris has to improve other positions I would still need a guard who can truly play make. Francisco can't do it and assists number doesn't say much anyway. Some great ball movers not necessary collect tons of assists and Francisco is just not a great ball mover.

Trinchieri tried to go for the highest upside of the team. Like everyone plays limited role, but utilizes it's time well, but this didn't work. He had to establish better hierarchy and Brazdeikis had to play bigger role here, and even Sirvydis. he had to unleash Brazdeikis from the start, give him freedom, he had to be OK with his early struggle. Yeah, I agree that Trinchieri screwed, but also Zalgiris management screwed again.
 
Toruko said:
Francisco also struggled a lot at the start of the season and its not like he remained underused. He is a gifted guard but in reading and reacting is a thing he is not able to provide. This and his ups and downs should be the reason why he is not targeted by bigger clubs. It tells a lot considering how thin the PG position is filled in Europe.
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Looks at big clubs like Real or Barsa. Francisco could drastically strengthen each of them.
 
Modern PG position went heavily to score first types and only then create for teammates.

All last 5 minutes in 4 querter is about do your main guard can beat switch all defence vs mobile bigs or not


High IQ PG that run the team and who firstly looking how to create good shot is past.

In todays 2020s basketball guard must be elite 1 vs 1 firstly and running the team became secondary thing in last 10 years.

All those Curry,Harden,Lebron,Lillards,Doncic,Shai they are not real PG but teams give them the ball and say do your thing.


Will it be scoring or passing it depends on defences and how those perimeter stars sees what is happening and reacts and not what play coaches draw.


Francisco is head is shoulders better at 1 vs 1 than any lithuanian perimeter player.Its not even close.

Like Dreamcatcher mentioned look at Real or Barcelona perimeter is weak and getting old with non athletic white guards.

Somebody from rich clubs would have thrown bag of money on Francisco in summer after very good euroleague season.


Zalgiris put huge contract now and managed to convince him to stay.

Francisco is euroleague Schroder version. Ultra fast with limitations in playing IQ.
 
Nah, elite players have both. Lorenzo Brown. ISO game and elite reading of the game. Take Micic in Europe and he has both. Enough of ISO presence and elite IQ, passing skills. Francisco will never ever be elite cause he has no great IQ and tons of flaws reading the game, very inconsistent. And he is small, he struggles with passing over double team and all. He can get to the basket and kick out, but against size he would struggle.

And yes, Doncic is very very much a PG :D He can dish 20 assists if he wants to. But he chooses to score +28 and give 8 assists.

Off course what you described is true. BB shifting towards shoot first position 1 players, point guards, but barely a play makers. But still it's the best when they can do it both. Guys like Curry, Lillard are shoot first, but it's not like they are not consistent in terms of reading the game. They are. They can dish nasty passes regularly. It's just that they are more preoccupied with scoring. Francisco can't just make this decision. Even if he tried, he would never be able to switch on passing and be consistent with it. He doesn't have it.
 
Zalgiris is not nba club they can't have such nba talent.

For zalgiris to sign Schroder type that is truly elite 1vs1 and have limitations in other things is big win and they put real bag to achieve that.

We and they saw multiple rich euroleague clubs needed guard badly in december and couldn't find nothing.

PGs position 2020s is main skill is 1 vs 1 .Francisco has it.

You know what Lithuanian guards will never have no matter how hard they will try what Francisco have ? is beat every teams best defenders 1 vs 1 with ultra speed and skill


​​​​​​In 2020s basketball 1 vs 1 skill for perimeter leader is way more important than passing or hiqh iq

That's way 1 vs 1 type guards taking over Pg position overall in today's basketball.
 
He's not an elite ISO player in Euroleague. You guys always forget that Brazdeikis led Zalgiris to PO under Maksvytis, but was absolutely no-one in Oly. Evans who is surely better at ISO and much stronger, more talented and more consistent than Francisco will be just a role player at best in OLY. To put some decent numbers or even good numbers in Zalgiris and to do it for top clubs is 2 completely different things. Absolutely. Elite ISO guards in EL are Maledon, Shorts, Nunn, James, Moneke, Punter and such. No-one would be looking at Francisco going ISO in top clubs on a constant basis. Francisco is nothing but an above average EL player, that's all.

Speaking about the skill set, he could only dream about Jakucionis skillset. I don't even think he is better at ISO. Prime KJ will be galaxes more explosive ISO player than Francisco. You always overrate those second rate Afro-French-American guards. Even Jokubaitis is more versatile player cause he has less ISO game and burst, but nevertheless fills all the skillset to certain extent and Francsico badly lacking essentials - IQ and passing.

There's a reason why the dude is not even a target in FIBA windows for France. No-one really cares. He has zero chances to make French NT. Do I want LTU NT to be led by a guy who can't pass and can't read the game? Hell fucking no :D Grigonis has more fundamentals than Francisco and even Grigonis should never be the guy with the green light on such team as LTU NT.

As always you underrate any second rate American as you did with Taylor, Sumner or even Walker and whatever. Where's Isiah Taylor and Summner playing now? In some shithole. No-one is interested.
 
For me Francisco speed and skill level is elite for euroleague level.

​​​​​And what i like about him he cares, he looks hurt when zalgiris is loosing. Is pushing his teammates to do not give up.

For example nba Walker didn't give a shit zalgiris loosing or winning.

Evans and Francisco is foreigners that really cares and have elite 1vs1 skill .Perfect zalgiris budget players.


My prediction Francisco will make France NT 2025 like he did in 2023.

Especially when multiple France veteran guards retired after Olympics.
 
Cisco is quick, sure, but as a player he is just created for lower tier EL teams. He has no skillset to lead the top teams. You have to be good at everything there. Scisco can't shoot, streaky, and can't pass. I think France still will take Ntkilikina for the defences. If Wemby there I'm sure it's not Francisco. If Wemby out, maybe France will look for more scoring players. But so there will also be Stratzel as competitor.

Cisco is good for Zalgiris, but I wouldn't overrate him, Zalgiris standing 13th in EL and will end up even lower most likely. He can still be a bit better next year, but he's not even Evans.
 
Francisco is 14,5pts euroleagye player this season 18th best scorer in entire euroleague

Last season was 11pts euroleague player comming of the bench in 19minutes for Bayern. He is elite in scoring points.


Todays Pg dont need to be elite passer,he needs to be elite scorer more. Francisco has that. Zalgiris needs him to score.

Have u seen how Zalgiris offence looks when Cisco out and D.Giedraitis or Lekavicius at PG ? Offence looks like in mud with ale better passers.


France 2024 guards:


Ntilikina 7,4pts player in euroleague this season.

Strazel 8,7pts

Decolo 11,6pts at 37 old

Albicy at 34 dont even play in euroleague


Didnt made the team


Francisco 14,5pts

Maledon 16,5pts


It looks questionable not taking those 2 and take those other 4 to 2024 olympics .When Francisco with Maledon both is shining in this season euroleague


With younger new coach no more Decolo and Albicy veteran coach friendships. I see very decent Cisco chance making elite France 2025 roster.


That Cisco would be starting LTU NT guard without any doubts. He instantly would become *our schroder* in fiba playing vs mostly white slow guards..
 
No, he's not elite. Grigonis and Brazdeikis were putting up numbers too when projected as leaders for Zalgiris, but does anyone call Grigonis elite scorer when he's playing in top teams? You're lacking critical thinking and as usual overpraising first American guard that stands in your viewpoint. Scisco would be 4-6pts player for Fener, Oly, Pao kinda teams. That's all. There's nothing else to say. Just as Jokubaitis was 6-8pts player for Barca. But the difference is Jokubaitis is 3 years younger. Today they are playing at the same level. Even their efficiency is similar. They are running EL bottom teams. But after three years Jokubaitis will be better than current Francisco and due to IQ and decision making Jokubaitis has an upside to be important if not one of the keys for top clubs and Francisco has no such upside.

Whenever Cisco or Jokubaitis would start today for LTU is a good question. Jokubaitis would involve others much better and by far better option to play pick and roll with Sabonis. Cisco is not even close as good in that as Jokubaitis. But Cisco would push the tempo more and provide more ISO and better D. So it's tough cause we surely have to utilize Sabonis and Buzelis and not to look how Cisco goes ISO. Comparison with Schroder is laughable at least in terms of their level. Cisco is trash and no-body compared to Schroder. No serious NT would give him the tools of the game. This debate between Jokubaitis and Cisc is relevant only because Cisco is older and and in his prime and in 2 years it would be laughable cause Jakucionis is coming. Hundred times more talented than Cisco disco whatever second rate players.
 
In 2020s basketball Francisco speed and skills 1vs 1 overtakes everything Jokubaitis can do.

Francisco is better both offensively and defensively and would be way bigger pain in ass to deal for oppoonnets


So you will be suprised in summer when that ale trash player will make roster of top 3 world NT in 2025 :)


Can you imagine if Cisco is ale trash,how offensively trashy are those lithuanians NT guards who plays with him ale Giedraitis,SIrvydis,Brazdeikis,Lekavicius ?

Their offensive skills looks like hobby players from lkl compared to Francisco 1 vs 1 skills :)
 
I can bet Francisco closed 5 times more games this season than all lithuanians guards combined in last 2 olympic cycles for our NT with their trashy offensive abilities

How manny games Jokubaitis closed for Maccabi and their 8-20 record this season?
 
Francisco sucked in first half and finished with 0pts and zalgiris was down by 20 and looked like trash team

in 1half Brazdeikis played 1 vs 1 everybody is just standing and watching,no ball movement ,everything slow like in mud.


When Francisco started his disco and running like crazy tasmanian devil everything changed.. His speed and penetrations opens alot of things for zalgiris

Not bad for player who ale cant pass according dinosour expert to finish with 8 assists :) + 5-6 more hockey assists when his speed creates advantage,demands double team and after 1-2 extra passes wide open shot


I like Wong. Dude gives a shit and competes really hard in defence and has nba athletism. Walker never did that,all he cared to shoot every time.
 
miklovas hinted at zalgiris potenitally looking to sign jokubaitis again for the next season. francisco jokubaitis backcourt would be very interesting to watch. zalgiris has not had a good playmaking guard in ages. of course if you sign jokubaitis style of player you need to combine that with a good center not uncle dunston or good for nothing birutis
 
I really doubt Jokubaitis will see any meaning to play next Francisco and be in situation where Sirvydis is now. Like feeling that he's underused or inconsistently used or used in a wrong way. It's all pretty messy with Trinchieri in Zalgiris rotation wise. How Brazdeikis was handled also very questionable. There's a feeling that if Iggy had full freedom from the start, Zalgiris would have a secure place in PO now likely. Aside playing Francisco all the time (and maybe D. Giedraitis), Trinchieri was experimenting all season long.

It will be interesting to see how Brazdeikis will finish the season. Is there any consistency now. In last 5 games he averaged 12,6ppg around 25mpg. It seems like he can consistently be in double digits now and resembles that player that he was under Maksvytis when Zalgiris reached the playoffs.
 
With Zalgiris officially eliminated from EL top10, Trinchieri's poor rotation decisions are no longer of consequence. Why did Wong, who looked decent against Monaco (and overall quite solid), play only 10 minutes, while the ineffective Giedraitis logged over 20 minutes? Giedraitis extended playing time has been one of Trinchieri's critical mistakes this season.
 
Zalgiris fans always searching who to blame Dimsa,Ulanovas now D.Giedraitis

I never was big fan of him,but common he is not that bad like people are talking about him last few weeks.


Giedraitis is 10-12min defensive role player,but not 25minute player like Trincheiri using him this season. Sometimes its tough to watch small guard who is affraid to shoot and searching how to pass out everytime.

Giedraitis is smaller Seibutis with less offence.But still elite defender with high IQ we have to give him that. I would take him to NT 2025 as backup for special defensive jobs



Now Giedraitis has 2 years experience of defending best euroleague players. Its big plus in my eyes its those emotional fiba battles. I trust high IQ and defence to do not dissapear in fiba.

I cant say same thing about offence and shooting from weaker levels than wont dissapear in fiba emotional battles.
 
Shawshank said:
Zalgiris fans always searching who to blame Dimsa,Ulanovas now D.Giedraitis
Giedraitis is 10-12min defensive role player,but not 25minute player like Trincheiri using him this season.
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I'm not Zalgiris fan at all. And you yourself indicated the problem that I already mentioned - Trinchieri overplayed him.
 
Dreamcatcher said:
I'm not Zalgiris fan at all. And you yourself indicated the problem that I already mentioned - Trinchieri overplayed him.
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yes he plays too much,but not because he himself decided that.

Why Giedraitis is pictured now like he is worst zalgiris player? even knet wrote article how Giedraitis is least eff euroleague player who plays 20min+

This is such emotional written crap,zalgiris better look at their pathetic frontcourt not blame young lithuanian who is defending best euroleague player in every game.


Im not even fan of him but this is just unfair and Giedraitis didnt deserve this bullshit. Same like Ulanovas get way too much heat.I see half zalgiris roster who is helping way less than those 2.

Its just emotional brainless fans way to find someone to blame
 
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