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Kaunas Zalgiris Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Straight forward2
  • Start date Start date
When Tukey club wins euroleague and turkish players combined scores like 2-4pts in final and semifinal,for me that not really turkish basketball won,but turkish money won.
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What I wanted to convey was something different. Time can change everything. Italy was a very serious basketball country with tradition in the beginning of the century and then they couldnt qualify to big tournaments. If you do the right things success will come, if not youll fail.

But youre right. The success was based on foreigners and we don't have your basketball tradition but we have a very big country. We just have to make basketball more popular and the success will follow. Just based on basketball There are 5-6 serious EL player for at least Playoff teams even though some need more time.

If NT camps you can buy only 1 foreigner,not entire 9 men rotation.
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One is more than enough.

My opinion problem is in players heads and character, not lack of basketball tallent or just being unlucky.
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Your opinion is understandable because we show such a behavior between 2001 - 2022 too many times but there are some reasons behind. I can understand your point but I think the problem is somewhere else. Its pretty similar to the Lithuanian team actually. We dont have the guys in the back court to make the right decisions in the crunch time. I couldnt see any problem with the effort but a lack of quality the last 6-7 tournaments, actually since Eurobasket 2013 in Slovenia. But next year we will have a very promising team if everyone is ready at least. Youll see it in the power rankings before the tournament.

But enough off topic. Sorry for being disruptive.
 
Yesterday’s loss by Zalgiris was tough to watch. I’m not a Zalgiris fan, but I have some concerns about how the Italian coach manages certain players. Why is Brazdeikis the 13th player and left out of the game entirely? It should have been Lekavicius or even Manek. Yet Trinch trusts Manek and puts him in the starting five again, while Brazdeikis doesn’t play at all.

Then there’s Giedraitis, who played the most minutes. He seems to be the coach’s favorite player in Zalgiris, but does it really make sense for him to get the most minutes? Dovis had a strong start to the season, but he overachieved back then. Now, his offensive contributions are closer to his real level. In the last five games, he’s averaged about 5 points with low percentages, leading to negative PIR.

Trinch seems to be a solid coach, but I often notice his obvious mistakes in Zalgiris’ losses.​
 
i hate what trinchieri has done with brazdeikis. how is he the to take the hit when manek or ulanovas very rarely do anything positive? same thing with sirvydis, he scores 14 in 2 and a half quarters and then just doesnt touch the floor again? his overreliance on talentless one sided defensive players does no good for anyone.
 
With Brazdeikis the situation is this. When he landed to Europe he was playing the best basketball he could play. Swagger, ISO presence, confidence was there. It felt like he can score big. Now Trinch trying to make a system player out of him, but it only spoils Iggy. You have to let Iggy to be Iggy. He grew as a bucket. You have to live with his wildness or let him go. This attempt to make a system player out of him made him only bleaker and worse. Iggy has to play wild and play like he's the best player on the court. Even if that's top teams of Eurocup, that's his role. He'll never be Ulanovas and Trinch is trying to do that. It's a waste of time. Let Iggy be wild, the way he was once he came to Europe.
 
I don’t know what’s happening with Walker in the second half, but in the first half, he’s been playing like Jordan or Kobe for several games in a row at least. To me, it’s clear that Zalgiris has never had such an individually strong player. The way he scores against the big defensive bodies in EL is on another level.

Brazdeikis also contributed significantly. I couldn’t understand why one of the team’s top three players (arguably the strongest after Walker and Francisco) was even left out of the rotation.
 
after first 15 games we can make some results

Zalgiris as team 9-6 fantastic result


Stats (eyes test too) shows there is 2 clear leaders:

Walker 13,1 EFF. and Francisco 13,1 EFF.


and bunch of very solid helpers that is changing in every game

Sirvydis 7,7 eff. Ulanovas 7,5 eff. Smailagic 7,2 eff. Giedraitis 7,0 Butkevicius 6,6 eff. Brazdeikis 6.1 eff. Birutis 5.4 eff. Mitchell 3,6 eff Dunston 3,5eff


Lithuanians smart team players still can be winning team helpers in 2020s but they need skilled perimeter leader to create offence


LTU NT problem we simply dont have skilled perimeter leader that could beat modern switch all defence 1 vs 1 like Evans or Walker or Francisco can


Thats why im keep repeating one such skilled guard would make our NT way stronger like zalgiris is made by those Evans or Walker individual skilled players.


Is not just their own scored points but how much they generate open looks for team overall
 
Walker is trash in EL. I had that sense all the time, but now it's obvious. I'm not even sure he can become elite even with the right attitude and long years of adjustments. He's inefficient scorer and in EL he's just trash. Sure his explosiveness will look great in his A nights which will come here and there, but on a daily basis he's sinking his team. He's not making a team better and is a bad defender. I would let him go. I really doubt he will have a consistent stretch in this season. I don't see this.

Walker's appearance probably hurt Sirvydis. Trinchieri trusted Sirvydis against Olympiacos, but it's obvious that 17mpg is already too small for Deividas. He's the best Lithuanian in Zalgiris. Trinchieri plays Ulanovas, Butkevicius and even D. Giedraitis a little bit too much and Sirvydis to little. D. Giedraitis disappointed offensively a little bit after a very promising start of the season. He needs to find offensive consistency and aggression on a daily basis to be truly impactful guard.


Also this Zalgiris lacks facilitators. Francisco is good, but he's ain't no facilitator.
 
Without Francisko and serious contribution from Walker Zalgiris found himself completely helpless​.
 
Dreamcatcher said:
Without Francisko and serious contribution from Walker Zalgiris found himself completely helpless​.
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Same happend last season in lkl finals...Zalgiris lost Evans and couldnt even beat Rytas and collapsed as team


Not a single zalgiris lithuanian can be more than role player on any top 10 NT euroleague team .


But in this game its was eye opening how limited zalgiris players on offence can be without Francisco speed created advantage
 
Francisco is damn good. Because of him Zalgiris still can win smth in EL.
 
Straight forward said:
And Walker sucks.
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Lonnie Walker hasn’t adapted to European basketball yet (and likely won’t, as he may return to the NBA). He also seems to disrupt Žalgiris’ team chemistry. On the other hand, his raw talent and individual skills are undeniable (did you see some of his first-half performances in the EuroLeague?), but they haven’t translated into consistent success in Europe so far.
 
Once again Francisco saved Zalgiris for total meltdown


NT must naturalise such level atheltic scorer if not... then pray that multiple Giedraitis or Butkevicius or Jokubaitis lucky nonsense shots will go in in last 5 minutes :)


Lithuanian perimeter 1 vs 1 abilities in 4 querter is just joke to 2020s guard standarts of best NTs.
 
Dreamcatcher said:
Lonnie Walker hasn’t adapted to European basketball yet (and likely won’t, as he may return to the NBA). He also seems to disrupt Žalgiris’ team chemistry. On the other hand, his raw talent and individual skills are undeniable (did you see some of his first-half performances in the EuroLeague?), but they haven’t translated into consistent success in Europe so far.
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Even when he had couple of big games, It was clear it's not sustainable. Dude needs plenty of space to gather momentum, he's not good with tight space, he takes tons of difficult shots which are bad shots for him (he doesn't make him consistently). I'm not sure he ever can be good in EL. He should play G League or NBA. And he sucks at D.

Franscisco is good for Zalgiris, but he probably won't make NT. He's not even close to be elite guard in EL. He's galaxies away from say prime Lorenzo Brown. Not even close to be able to lead FIBA powerhouse, but good enough for Zalgiris.

BTW, Trinch was right on Giedraitis. With him playing big role Zalgiris is better. Zalgiris slump started when Giedraitis dropped off with injury and came back being very innactive offensively. Trinch tried to go all the way with Walker and Francisco offensively and that was a big failure. Now that Giedraiti is playing well again Zalgiris basically has their best true guard duel. I just don't like that Sirvydis is kept on a short leash. He is ready to give more. OK, it was a Butkevicius night, but overall Sirvydis deserves bigger role.
 
Straight forward said:
Franscisco is good for Zalgiris, but he probably won't make NT. He's not even close to be elite guard in EL.
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France is full of talented and strong players like no other European country, so whether Francisco makes NT is uncertain - but it’s not the point anyway. Saying he’s not close to being an elite EL guard isn’t accurate. He’s a very hot player, averaging 13 pts for a borderline playoff team, and he has already decided some endings. He seems well on his way to earning a spot on a stronger team.

On the other hand, you’re overrating Giedraitis. He missed the only one game In Madrid, where Zalgiris took a confident win. While he overperformed at the start of the season, his contribution has dropped significantly since then, even though his minutes almost haven’t decreased meaning Trinchieri overplayed him. Yes, Italian seems to like him, but I’m not a fan of the way Trinchieri handles player rotations overall. You mentioned Sirvydis’ small role, and I partly agree. There were some games where Trinch could have let Sirvydis stay on the court longer. But what about Brazdeikis? Two years ago he averaged 11 points in his debut season (only Evans did better), and Žalgiris made the playoffs. Then he played well in NT. Yet now, according to Trinchieri, he’s the 13th player in the rotation while trushManek gets a chance every game. How about that?
 
In the world of SF you are not elite PG if you are not at least at Doncics level everything below is trash. :D
 
LTU NT Candidates

Zalgiris

D.Giedraitis 25min 7pts eff. 6,0
Ulanovas 22min 6,3pts eff. 8,1
Butkevicius 22min 4,7pts eff. 7,4

Sirvydis 17min 8,8pts eff. 7,6
Brazdeikis 13min 6,1pts eff. 5,2
Lekavicius 7min 2,6pts eff. -0.2


all role players and neither of them two 2 players.

3 defenders and 3 offensive players

Zalgiris is one of better defensive euroleague teams and 3 defenders plays more minutes than offensive players.


Near Francisco 3 defenders makes more sense i agree with Trinchieri.
 
Today Brazeikis suddenly started from the start and was perfect by scoring 12 pts. But then Trinch took him off from the game and that's it. What is it? Meanwhile, his favourite player Giedraitis played a lot and in 27 min his PIR is minus 2. And he wasn't any kind of defensive changer. Sirvydis, by the way - 12 seconds. Thank God, I'm not Zalgiris fan. I would be pissed off by Trinchieri's rotations.
 
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