• Since we moved our URL please clear your browsers history and cookies and try logging in again. Thank you and sorry for any inconvenience
  • Since we moved our URL please clear your browsers history and cookies and try logging in again. Thank you and sorry for any inconvenience

Kaunas Zalgiris Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Straight forward2
  • Start date Start date
Dinosour expert



all best europes young players is nba in 2020s .Who cares how much minutes he played in euroleague by 23 that not an achievement because his future main opponnets of 2020s fiba era is in nba not euroleague.

By 5th euroleague season all timer should make bigger steps and improve faster not still making baby steps that my point.Why i dislike Jokubaitis trajectory.


When you look at historical players. When they were put in new situation how fast they would become main players.That shows players adaptability and tallents.

Take any top 10 ltu player all time . They need 1 max 2 years into new situation and becoming leaders in that situation (im talking about europe,nba is diffrent world)

If Jokubaitis would be some 4-5th NT guard sure this projection would look good.But we are talking about nr 1 lithuanian guard of 2020s decade here.


Judging age tottaly diffrent eras and players who started euroleague at 18 and who at 23 its only show lack historical knowledge about basketball.

Siskauskas was 22,Macijauskas 23,Jasikevicius 24 when they play key roles in medal winning teams outplaying euroleague players in fiba they were better than today Jokubaitis is at 23.

That they didnt play earlier in euroleague its not because of level its because it was tottaly diffrent times.



Grigonis this season is starting 5 player who plays 28min of top 8 euroleague team and he is still calling him role player.

Kaukenas was playing 25min for Montepaschi that was making final fours thats not a role player at all.

Role players is Jokubaitis and Brazdeikis this season. Get your facts right dude



After seeing 3 years stuck as backup my prediction Jokubaitis will reach Grigonis/Kaukenas levels he will be starter of top 8 euroleague team in his maturity years but will not reach big 4 ltu all time guards level.Top 10 of all time LTU players clearly was progressing faster put in new situations.

Marciulionis was Nr 1 guard of entire Ussr at of 23. Thats means he was best guard of 100million gigantic people country and he is writting he was playing in Statyba till 24 like he was some D.Giedraitis level :)


Yeah because Marciulionis had no choice,he couldnt even travel for holiday to Spain forget playing there. How cluesless historically person knowledge should be to compare like that my god. Thats why its useless to discuss with him he have no historical basketball knowledge and have no clue how to compare diffrent eras.

He compares 1980s bananas with 2020s apples and thinks its same
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm not sure it's worth it to reply for low life as Shawshank, name giving, unable to stay in respectable debate, unable to read polemic opponent's points carefully before jumping to conclusions (missing tons of points) and getting too emotional during his own replies. Some personalities here obviously got spoiled.

But one of my rare replies for you and probably one of the last ones.

You missing the point that it's all about the level. I never said that Jokubaitis necessary better than Rooney, Saras, Siska, Macas (top tier of LTU guards) or even necessary on exact same tier, I said that at the age 21-22 Jokubaitis played at higher level. That's the difference. You can't ask 21-22yo to become one of the keys in Barca or Real and such. This is stupid. None of LTU guards ever did it and probably only Marciulionis (maybe Macijauskas too) could, but we don't know that for certain cause it never happened, they never had a chance to do that. Dig it? We can only say that Macijauskas was super impressive becoming one of Tau's leaders being 23yo, and Jokubaitis is not able to become such as 23yo of Barca. So that's a fact, but we don't know how Saras or Siska could deal with such situation cause being 23yo they played at lower level (whatever the reason). Claiming that they would had become they keys of Barca, Tau, PAO or other elite EL club at that time (being 23yo) is just speculation, we don't know that cause they never got the chance. Partially because of worse scouting, different times, but also because they may not be ready. Remember that Siska spent a lot of year in non elite Benneton till he got to PAO. Mesina said "Siska needed time to become elite player of Europe" something like that. It was more about Siska's mentality.

NT is a good platform to compare Jokubaitis to others, that's true. 22yo Jokubaitis was 12,6ppg, 5.8as, 15eff for a weaker team and Siska was 6.6ppg and 7,3eff for much stronger team. So it's hard to evaluate. Siska became one of true keys in 2001, being 23yo. Was Siska at 22 better than Jokubatis? It's hard to say. My gut feeling says he was a bit better, but we don't have the date that we could surely compare. They played for very different level NTs and clubs at this age. Saras at 22 was in Rytas, so it's not even debatable, and in the NT as 22yo Saras was 4.6ppg, 3.2eff. That 1998WC team was more or less on the same tier with 2023WC team, maybe slightly better, but more or less the same tier, IMO. So Jasikevicius wasn't a better player than Jokubaitis as 22yo. Macijauskas made NT only being 23yo so no comparison available. As 22yo he played for Rytas which is not even close Barca.

So far there's no evidence that Jokubaitis development is inferior compared to A tier LTU all time guards, except that Macijauskas exceeded him with that instant explosion in TAU being 23yo. Actually Jokubaitis so far exceeds Jasikevicius, IMO, but next season Jokubaitis needs to make very serious leap (like becoming one of keys of Barca and leading NT 2025 to big things, medals) if he wants to go the same trajectory as Saras did.

Jokubaitis really did a lot so far, but off course I'm also concerned that his role is not increasing and that we see big inconsistencies in his EL role and performance thus far. He needs to make that next step and show that he has elite EL's player's upside which I believe he has.

Another mistake you do, you miss the point that current PAU and Kaukenas' Siena were not elite EL teams. It may been borderline elite, but surely not elite. Elite teams are like recent Barca, Real or previously CSKA and Efes. They always are in the final 4, no matter what. Kaukenas played for true elite team and that was Real for one season and he did pretty well, was 8.1eff player, but he wasn't no-where close being among the keys and spent only one season there. Current PAO is also not an elite team. Grigonis only played for elite team CSKA and he also was far for being one of the leaders. Both Kaukenas and Grigonis were just solid, or some could argue borderline elite EL SGs, but surely not elite. If you don't see the differences between Siska/Macas and Kaukenas/Grigonis, not only god can help. Stombergas was elite cause he was one of the keys of championship Zalgiris and elite Tau which played in EL finals and so on.

Also, you make another false presumption that Jokubaitis is projected as the best LTU guard of 2020s. ATM it's surely not legitimate claim. Rubstavicius upside and profile is much better fit for NBA, most of scouts would back this up instantly. Jakucionis is more impressive as prospect being 16-17yo than Jokubaitis was and probably Indrusaitis and Buika are too. So this claim that Jokubaitis is no1 guard of 20s is way off. We don't know that and at least Jakucionis seems to be bigger prospect as guard for sure.
 
When Jarutis says that he hears that very interesting clubs are interested in Marciulionis, I think he means Zalgiris from LTU clubs. We do know that Rytas wants to get back Marciulionis and that's the best team after Zalgiris in LTU, so I think Jarutis was referring to Zalgiris, nothing else would be "interesting" or surprising., and I'm guessing some other EL clubs or strong Eurocup teams.

I agree with people who think that Zalgiris might make couple of smart long term moves in the off season getting players like Sirvydis, Marciulionis in the first place and maybe Tubelis too. Those, IMO, should be their long term priorities, as well maybe as Rubstavicius (even through I think he's all into NBA now). The smart move would be like that. Make a contract with Marciulionis and loan him to Rytas for a season. Maybe in this case, Rytas would even lower the buyout which shouldn't be out of this world anyway. Lekavicius days are kinda counted. Zalgiris needs to look for another long term back up PG and it would be the best if it's Lithuanian (they also have ties with Kriisa, but Augis is Lithuanian and they want to have Lithuanian core). Marciulionis is loyal to Vilnius, bet long term he would want to play in El anyway and Zalgiris for him is the best path most likely. Lekavicius, IMO, can bring 2 more seasons at best I think. Likely one. I don't know what is his contract.

Another smart proposal is to sign Sirvydis and to loan him to either Alba or other weaker EL club. That would be very smart. Zalgiris has to solve things with Dimsa and D. Giedraitis, Ulanovas in few years will probably be done, so hooking Sirvydis long term would be smart, but they shouldn't necessary bring him over instantly. Not because he's not ready, but because his position is crowded with Lithuanians ATM - Ule, Butke, Dimsa, Giedraitis.

Tubelis surely needs one season in Eurocup/CL first. Let him play a season with Rytas. Than grab him and he might be new "Smits" for Zalgiris long term, or faster Jankunas if you like.

If Zalgiris would lock all 4 these players long term (like having Rubsta draft and stashed) if would be out if this world success and master job. It they would sign 3 of those long term (Rubsta aside) ir would still be masterful. If 2 of them, very good job. If one of these, like Sirvydis, decent job. IMO, Zalgiris shouldn't sleep when so much talent on the table. But they also should be willing to loan at first and let Rytas to have a slack.

Off course, it would be interesting to see how Rytas' fans would take it, if Marciulionis or Tubelis would be long term Zalgiris property while at the moment balling for Rytas. That probably might be an issue to certain extent :D

My gut feeling says that Rubsta will go straight to NBA. Sirvydis will sign with Baskonia or something similar. Tubelis may provide a shocker and sign long term with one of Baskonia, PAO, OLY. And Marciulionis will stick with Rytas because of loyalty for some time.

I mean those gems can be fished by bigger markets easily. If Zalgiris will act strongly in this situation, it will show that Jankunas is worth something.
 
not sure marciulionis has done anything to get a long term contract by zalgiris, his ncaa career doesnt look inspiring, wolves is probably more likely. Sirvydis is the only player they should try to sign. loan giedraits, slide ulanovas to pf if thats what it takes.they cant pass up on a 23 year old eurocup scoring leader. tubelis is also tricky because of that buyout and of course his controversial zalgiris logo stomp.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
IDK, I think Lekavicius is not exactly competitive anymore in EL. He can't deliver. In 2021-22 he still was legit back-up with 10.2ppg and 10,9eff which is very nice, but he can't deliver anymore, his efficiency now is only 3.8. I think Lukas career was really great in EL, but it's almost over. He can't deal with EL physicality anymore basically. He lost is stint of athleticism and that's it, he's nearly done. He always had to work 110% to overcome his lack of size, but he can't go like this forever.

I also think Zalgiris has too much too mediocre Lithuanians ATM. I would say good-buy to Lavrinovic, Birutis, Lekavicius, Dimsa. Even the same Butkevicius is not exactly shinning compared to previous season. ATM, Lithuanian core is bleak. The best player Ulanovas is also worse than last season. Only positive that slowly Giedraitis talent prevailing. It's a process and Zalgiris has to be patient with it, but he will get there eventually.

Current LTU core is getting old or not competitive enough. Lekavicius, Ulanovas, Butkevicius, Dimsa will all have to be cleared soon, IMO, if Zalgiris wants to be more competitive. This off season I would be looking at Sirvydis, Rubstavicius, Marciulionis, Tubelis. They have to get more talent to stay competitive. If next season Zalgiris will run with the same Liths, the picture will probably be even worse. Hope Zalgiris won't be stupid enough to bring 32yo Giedraitis.

The way I see it, next season will be bleak again. Zalgiris has to spurt new integration of talented Liths, either loan them or throw them into fire. With current core they are not going anywhere anymore. Ulanovas kinda sucks defensively already. Too slow and sleepy.

​
 
ricky rubio might join barcelona, things are looking good for jokubaitis
 
zalias said:
ricky rubio might join barcelona, things are looking good for jokubaitis
Click to expand...

Having a training college Rubio sounds good. He can learn few things from him. Rubio just wants to be in practices. And it's good for Jakcionis too. I take it as another benefit being in Barca system.
 
Its fantastic for Rokas if Rubio would be just sparing partner. He could learn alot from him,just watching Rubio how he reads the the situations.

But logically looking what would be next step for Rubio if he feel he is ready to play again?

signed team friendly contract for remaining of the season to prepare his body for olympics. Jokubaitis,Satoransky minutes would decrease in such case.


Players who are done playing they arent searching for way to play again. If player shows signs of that its good indicitacion where his brain is leaning towards


Such highest quality player if again will feel joy of playing basketball can become very seriuos weapon. Good shape Rubio can make similiar effect to Barcelona what Campazzo did to Madrid this year.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Birutis looks like a very solid EL center under Trinchieri. And overall players are used better. Italian seems to be a higher level coach than Maksvytis. I didn't expect that it was going to be seen so soon.

Zalgiris players (locals probably) screwed so much by postponing changes for 2 weeks.
 
Trinchieri first games was letting Lukas play and it looked ok.

But after few weeks having a chance to see all players abilities it seems even Trinchieri realised two way Dimsa and Giedraitis is simply better basketball players than very one sided Lekavicius

I like Dimsa and Giedraitis hiqh iq play with real defence way more than Lekavicius and Sumners chaotic play​
 
in theory giedraitis shouldnt be a good defender because of his physical limitations, he's short, unathletic, mediocre wingspan, but he's still an amazing defender. even elite eurolegue guards like chris jones, shane larkin, kevin punter struggle against him. at first i thought trinchieri would just let him rot on the bench, but it seems like he realized how valuable giedraitis can be. i think its fair to say this is lekavicius last season on zalgiris, he's just too big of a liablity to get any playing time and not worth keeping for the 2-3 match ups he's actually good for in euroleague
 
Lekavicius is an interesting case. He played decent minutes for years, he saved Zalgiris' ass many times and his height was basically just a flaw (just too much perceptible) that many players has. He is not a vet yet and his speed i think is still there. So what really happened?
 
Dreamcatcher said:
Lekavicius is an interesting case. He played decent minutes for years, he saved Zalgiris' ass many times and his height was basically just a flaw (just too much perceptible) that many players has. He is not a vet yet and his speed i think is still there. So what really happened?
Click to expand...

Soon he will be 30. He's not obviously declined physically yet, but he declined a bit and that's a lot for a player as Lekavicius who lives and dies with speed and energy. Players who are forced to use 120% energy for many years to survive PRO level tend to wash out sooner, Lekavicius became worn out, also with time his appetite for the game declined a bit likely. But the key moment he simply worn out a little bit already. Players who hustles a lot, who drives a lot tend to start declining earlier​. Lekavicius was always a player who could barely breath after 18-19 minutes of game. So active at both ends, he endlessly had to fight bigger opponents defensively too. That's the reason. Besides, that 2021/2022 tragic season for Zalgiris was the last hit to Lekavicius I believe. He was so worn out that season. Not only he played too much, but all the aggression was coming from him basically that season. All other guards like old Kalnietis, Strelnieks and such were complete trash. Lekavicius also played in the NT 2022 which was a mistake and after that he never was the same. He worn out himself.

That's the reason why Butkevcius starting to become injury prone. He always hustled more than other players. That's the reason way to way beast Marciulionis knees collapsed being around 30.
​
 
Evans is too much good. 24 pts, 0 turnovers, 35 EFF. The most important thing in summer for Zalgiris is to find out if Evans would like to stay and if so, to pay him an amount of money that he deserves.

Another thing is Trinchieri. He has a buy-out if i'm not mistaken, so some Efes who has suffered from a lack of a good coach may be interested. I think Zalgiris lost some pts in standings because of not bringing Italian earlier.
 
Evans price will start with 1,5million,wouldnt be suprised seeing some rich powerhouse putting 2million contract on his table.

Top 10 euroleague players salaries are about 2 million on average


Barcelona needs athletic guard all their guards is white and non athletic. Real could thing adding Evans too because Llull and Rodriguez playing on their last legs.

Zalgiris cant compete with such teams.
 
i think nba is also a realistic option for him, if i recall correctly he had some interest from nba teams before his injury,.but if i was zalgiris gm i'd try to compete with other teams at least a little, offer him a 2y/3m contract, if he refuses then whatever but you have to at least try. zalgiris budget is big enough at this point to have at least a single 7 figure contract
 
Wow, it was the best first two quarters of the season and overall electric impressive game. The end of second quarter was surreal, I didn't understand if I watch BB game or some kind of war drama movie. Impressive hustle outburts by Zalgiris, diving for the lose ball, incredible fight. Trinchieri changed Zalgiris. Now we know that Maksvytis is not even close. Kazys is not useless coach, but simply Italian is top tier EL coach.
 
this was obiviously going to happen https://x.com/AlessandroMagg4/status/1772735442342793504?s=20 , coming to zalgiris would be the smartest move he can possibly make. i also dont see jokubaitis playing for the knicks, thibodeau is a defense minded coach, who loves playing gritty basketball and i dont believe in Rokas ability of being a solid defender at an nba level, he simply lacks the athleticism required, if he did get a contract by the knicks he'd just rot on the bench imo.

Pakenas also mentioned zalgiris has interest in sirvydis, i'd love to see both sirvydis and jokubatiis playing in Kaunas.
 
zalias said:
this was obiviously going to happen https://x.com/AlessandroMagg4/status/1772735442342793504?s=20 , coming to zalgiris would be the smartest move he can possibly make. i also dont see jokubaitis playing for the knicks, thibodeau is a defense minded coach, who loves playing gritty basketball and i dont believe in Rokas ability of being a solid defender at an nba level, he simply lacks the athleticism required, if he did get a contract by the knicks he'd just rot on the bench imo.

Pakenas also mentioned zalgiris has interest in sirvydis, i'd love to see both sirvydis and jokubatiis playing in Kaunas.
Click to expand...

So generally if Jokubaitis and Sirvydis signed, all three 2000 gen studs would be in Zalgiris. I don't think Zalgiris is looking to part any ways with perimeter D genius Giedraitis. This would be the most talented Lithuanian Zalgiris core in decades assuming Ulanovas and Butkevicius still has something to other as well. This would specially be huge if 2000 studs stayed in Zalgiris for 2025/2026 season too. I personally don't think other big teams won't be hooking Jokubaitis. He may choose a role, not the money though. So Zalgiris is legitimate chance now.
 
Is Evans the best foreigner in Zalgiris' history? He doesn't start well, he's defended by the rival team, but you know that he will anyway end up with approximately 20 pts/eff. Too bad i don't remember Edney, but i don't think he also provided defensively.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top