Hence people might think that the gap is increasing. It is not, and that can be seen from the regular upsets top Euroleague teams make against NBA teams, playing with NBA rules.
Most of the players and rosters the US has played against in this tournament are not even at Euroleague level. The players would play in the second tier of European basketball competitions. Some players who play for Mexico, Finland or Korea and so other teams play in very low level leagues. It so happens that the world cup has 24 teams instead of 16 (which was the case until 2002). And it so happens that the draw put the US in a very weak bracket. Hence people might think that the gap is increasing. It is not, and that can be seen from the regular upsets top Euroleague teams make against NBA teams, playing with NBA rules.
There really is no "American" brand of developing players though. People not from this country don't see this but the fact is where a kid grows up and where he plays basketball through those developmental years determines what kind of training he gets. Kids playing in hard-nosed, more urban leagues tend to get developed athletically early on and grow up playing pick up games and learning how to become better scorers and tougher players whereas kids playing in softer, less athletic, less hard-nosed leagues tend to get developed fundamentally early on and often don't max out their ability due to being developed moreso as part of a team before becoming the "star" of the team they play on in whatever most likely depleted league and possibly then being part of an AAU team with a high high school ranking. These latter types are the players a lot of us refer to as "Duke" players because they typically play at Duke and star in college but aren't developed enough to stick in the NBA. Now that more and more of the players who would've been in urban leagues are growing up in the suburbs though, more and more of those type of players are becoming less developed and more like your typical "Duke" player minus the basketball IQ and smart play.I think Europeans need to adapt the American brand of basketball in how they develop their players.
Its not about comparing results of this years teams vs USA. Its about comparing this years teams to the teams of 15 years ago. Do you really believe that this years Serbia is better or on the same level then Yugoaslavia from 2002? Or that this years Lithuania is better or on the same level then Lithuania from 2002, or the same with Slovenia, Russia, Turkey, Italy and so on and so on.
The point is, that the quality of basketball players is regressing. Or a generational transition is happening, though i don't believe that to be the case, because i don't see the second Nowitzki, Stojakovic, Parker, Gasol etc. anywhere. What is even more problematic then no more huge start players is, if you compare players 8-12 on teams from 15 years ago, to players today. Shameful.
Please... Larry Taylor is the only naturalized player in all of the QF teams, and even then he was only the 3rd string PG for Brazil.Most naturalized players or import players around the world are Americans too. If FIBA doesn't limit naturalization, we probably will see USA vs. USA in most games. Kind of like how Olympic women's ping pong is basically China vs. China in all team matches.
I think you managed to cherry pick the teams. I think that Spain of today is levels ahead of the Spain of 2002. I think that this Greece is also better than the one of 2002. Croatia probably as well, France without a doubt and so is Brazil. The ones you mentioned like Slovenia and Turkey are definitely worse. But they were better a few years ago than they were in 2002. Italy is worse than 2002, but much better than they were in 2010.
Russia in 2012 was also much better than Russia in 2002. They are worse now. Lithuania is also worse.
It is more accurate to compare the best teams of today vs the best teams of 2002. Frankly, I think France (full roster) and Spain may be better than Serbia/Yugoslavia and Argentina of 2002. Remember than many international teams are also incomplete. I.e. France with Parker, Noah etc. or Greece with Spanoulis, Koufos and Sofo could have been much stronger this year. Also Italy isn't playing with a complete roster for a decade.
Remember, most of the international teams in 2002 were rather poor to bad. It's just that there were always 2 or 3 international teams which were leaps ahead of the rest. People tend to have a picture image of those teams and think that that was the level of basketball in 2002.
As for the USA this year, it just so happens that they didn't encounter those few top tier international teams yet. These 2 very strong teams were not in their bracket. IMO in 2014 the best international teams would be Spain and France (full roster). Well, Spain had a bad game against the latter, and the latter did not have a full roster to capitalize on that and reach the final.
I think you are neglecting the fact that Spain will soon be left without Pau, JCN, Reyes etc. They will still be a great team, but nowhere near as good. The same goes for France once Diaw and Parker retire (which will not be long). The only team, that i see that is really much better is Croatia and Brasil.
And 2nd tier Euro teams like Finland, Macedonia, Montenegro, Ukraine etc.
France is going to have to completely change their mindset if they want to ever give the USA trouble.I feel that Spain is still the only team able to regularly give the USA trouble. But things change...Possibly a full strength France or Lithuania... Let's see how some prospects like the Serb Bogdanovic grow...
Paulo
I think France could actually be better than they are now. They have two big men, some very athletic wings, quick guards, and Batum and Fournier should be their SF and 2 guard of the future, both of whom are either current NBA stars (Batum) or were drafted to be (Fournier). Huertel has played pretty good at times in this tournament even though he's no Tony Parker. Don't forget they still have guys like Ajinca and Seraphin as well. Then you throw in Edwin Jackson and that team is pretty well set up.I think you are neglecting the fact that Spain will soon be left without Pau, JCN, Reyes etc. They will still be a great team, but nowhere near as good. The same goes for France once Diaw and Parker retire (which will not be long). The only team, that i see that is really much better is Croatia and Brasil.
And 2nd tier Euro teams like Finland, Macedonia, Montenegro, Ukraine etc.
I think the latter is a lot more likely than the former, though both are possible.Maybe I am repeating myself, but there was always and most probably will always be a huge gap in skills and talent between US players and players from the rest of the world. Any of the best 50 American players would be instantly a superstar in Europe. Any of the first 20 are on a completely different level, with only a few exceptions from time to time with players such as Petrovic, Sabonis, Nowitzki, Parker etc.
In order for any team at any given moment to overcome this huge disadvantage in skills, talent, athleticism or whatever you want to name it, a few things must happen simultaneously, such as a great generation of players for a given team (which would narrow to some extent the gap in skills) and a poor selection/ chemistry/ preparation/ motivation etc. for the US team.
It may just seem that way, but top teams until 2012 were much better than the ones in 2002. Notice that in the semi-finals of 2002 there were teams like New Zealand and Germany. And Yugoslavia and Argentina were just only a little bit stronger than them. You mean to say that one single player like Nowitzky could change the balance entirely and allow Germany to win a medal in a World Championship. This is not possible anymore. Top teams may have shown some decline in this tournament. But that's simply because Spain is coming to an end of a generation and France was incomplete.
Moreover, I think coach K has found a key in beating international teams. Pressure defense. International teams can not handle that. It demotivates them. Coach K selects the right players to do the job. It may even seem B teams or C teams to many of us, but they are not. These athletes are carefully selected out of a great pool of players. And they make the rest of the world seem very weak.
I think France could actually be better than they are now. They have two big men, some very athletic wings, quick guards, and Batum and Fournier should be their SF and 2 guard of the future, both of whom are either current NBA stars (Batum) or were drafted to be (Fournier). Huertel has played pretty good at times in this tournament even though he's no Tony Parker. Don't forget they still have guys like Ajinca and Seraphin as well. Then you throw in Edwin Jackson and that team is pretty well set up.
Well the way I see it is Seraphin and/or Ajinca or maybe even Noah will replace Diaw, Gelabele, Pietrus, etc. Therefore they will be able to carry more bigs this time around. This mean's Edwin Jackson and Batum need to step up and be much more than they have been to counter the lack of wing depth but I think they can. Fournier, too, is 6'5 I believe which is a good height for a wing in FIBA but he needs to be able to defend in order to play G/F and not just 2 guard. Then you'd have Parker as the starting point guard with Huertel his backup.You can only take so many big men with you. Either they go with the ones they had this year, or they go with Seraphin and Ajinca. Can't have it both ways.
France always had athletic wings and good PGs. What they lacked most of the time, was passing and spacing, because they had no shooters. Now they have a few players that could make them a dangerous team, and they will be on the level of this years team. But without Diaw and Parker. They will not be better IMO. But i wouldn't bet on that. They might. Basketball is picking up steam in France and i like it.
1. I don't think so. I definitely think a top player like Nowitzki can change the balance entirely. He actually did on several occasions. Even in the EC in 2005. Also the latest example is Macedonia. Without McCalebb they would still be a low level team. With him, they were amazing.
2. I can't agree that the top teams of 2012 were better then the ones of 2002. Lets just check. Spain as the best non USA team is not IMO better then Yugoslavia of 2002. Bodiroga, Stojakovic, Rakocevic, Radmanovic, Divac, Jaric, Radmanovic, Drobjnak, Vujanic, Tomasevic, Gurovic vs. The Gasol's, Ibaka, Fernadez, JCN. IMO team Yugolsavia was much better, and much younger. The second best teams of the competition in 2002 was Argentina with Scola, Ginobili, Oberto, Nocioni, Sconochini, Sanchez, this years second best team was arguably France with Batum, an old and fat Diaw, and even at full strength with Parker and Noah, that team is still not better then Argentina of 2002 IMO. The third best team of 2002 was not Germany (although that team was good), because it really had a fortunate way into the knockout stages, beating Algeria, China, New Zealand and Russia. The third best team of that time, was a team that actually didn't play at the WC. It was Lithuania, who actually won the EC the next year, lead by Siskauskas, Macijauskas, Jasikevicius, Lavrinovic, Songaila, Stombergas, Zukauskas. Now that team is sure as hell better then this years third best team, who is probably Serbia i guess if they were at full strenght with Teodosic, an old Krstic, Bjelica, Bogdanovic, Macvan, and whoever they could have brought.
I think that great players from around 2002 may seem from another level, but they are not. We have the tendency to create legends. But these players were only so good because their opponents in Europe were rather poor. The few players who played in the NBA were nothing special to today's standard. It was more special that European players played in the NBA though. In 2002 Peja was probably the best player of them. A top modern European player. Save for him and the other few NBA players, most of the other players were good in the slow Euroleague of 2002, where players like Kutluay were stars. In a few words, a very strong roster, but it seems stronger than it really is. Having lost Divac after that tournament that same team in the Athens Olympics was last in the group and lost to New Zealand and China, among others.
And the fact that Nowitzki's Germany was in the final in 2005 says a lot about the level of the competition and the rest of the teams. Or do you think that that Germany would be better than Serbia today? Let alone Spain or France.
That might become one hell of a team, but they'll need either incredible coaching or some of those players will really have to surpass the expectations to rival a simmilar edition of the US we've seen. I do believe they might be contending for medals in the top competitions soon.The gap may soon close:
Corey Joseph/Tyler Ennis/Xavier Rathan Mayes
Nik Stauskas/Jamaal Murray/Justin Jackson
Andrew Wiggins/Anthony Bennett/Melvin Ejiim
Tristan Thompson/Andrew Nicholson/Dwight Powell
Kelly Olynyk/Trey Lyles/Joel Anthony