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Saskibaloia2
Guest
Behind Shaq's head, this must be running "Yo Kobe, I got three in LA and 1 in Miami on my own. While you only had 2 on your own."
tru 2 dat
tru 2 dat
sinobball2
Moderator
Not entirely true, Shaq's in Miami was won by Flash Wade.
PS: I can't believe someone took the time to write such a long entry on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe–Shaq_feud
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mvblair2
Guest
Like Saski, I'm not a Laker fan. They win too much and somebody else deserves a turn every once in a while.
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (greatest basketball player ever? maybe)
2. Wilt Chamberlain (maybe Magic here)
3. Magic Johnson (maybe Wilt here)
4. Jerry West
5. Shaquile O'Neal
6. Kobe Bryant
7. Elgin Baylor
8. George Mikkan
9. James Worthy
10. Bob McAdoo
Honestly, Vlade Divac should be in there somewhere between Kobe and McAdoo...people forget how good Vlade was back then, but he didn't spend as much time as some of those other names.
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (greatest basketball player ever? maybe)
2. Wilt Chamberlain (maybe Magic here)
3. Magic Johnson (maybe Wilt here)
4. Jerry West
5. Shaquile O'Neal
6. Kobe Bryant
7. Elgin Baylor
8. George Mikkan
9. James Worthy
10. Bob McAdoo
Honestly, Vlade Divac should be in there somewhere between Kobe and McAdoo...people forget how good Vlade was back then, but he didn't spend as much time as some of those other names.
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NorCal2
Guest
Nice list. I can't stand the Lakers either, as you might guess from my username. However, I have to give props where props are due. If we are ranking Kobe vs. former Laker greats considering what they did in a Lakers jersey then I think he ranks second only to Magic. If we are comparing him to all Laker greats based on what they did throughout their careers no matter what team they played for then I think he falls to 5th behind Kareem, Wilt, Magic and Shaq. But I think he'll finish his career being considered one of the best 10 players to every play the game.
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mvblair2
Guest
Hah, hah!! Well, what do you think about putting Vlade Divac in a top ten list of Lakers? I guess, as you say here:
He could be a top ten Laker, considering what he did for Yugoslavia/Serbia and Sacramento.
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NorCal2
Guest
I think that's a stretch, given the storied history of the Lakers (god, it pains me to write that). I love Vlade as much as any red blooded Kings fan but I just don't see him as top 10. Perhaps if you count, as you mentioned, his international experience and the fact that he was and continues to be one of basketball's great ambassadors. For all time top 10 Kings Vlade's definitely in there, but somehow I can't find that thread
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basketinside.com2
Guest
the best is magic
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mvblair2
Guest
Agreed.I think that's a stretch, given the storied history of the Lakers (god, it pains me to write that). I love Vlade as much as any red blooded Kings fan but I just don't see him as top 10. Perhaps if you count, as you mentioned, his international experience and the fact that he was and continues to be one of basketball's great ambassadors. For all time top 10 Kings Vlade's definitely in there, but somehow I can't find that thread
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CKR132
Guest
My take:
As far as Kobe Bryant's on court performance, yes he can be considered as among the Laker's greats with him surpassing Jerry West on the All-Time Scoring record on the franchise and he has 5 Championships to equal the feat of Magic Johnson / George Mikan; and 1 more would elevate him from his predecessors.
But as far as being a "Minneapolis / Los Angeles Lakers" member on upholding the integrity and illustrious history that the well loved players on the franchise's history have brought upon through on-court exploits and off-court exploits, Kobe was among the WORST. He had a sexual-assault lawsuit on Colorado, publicly yelled "Trade Me!, I'd rather be playing elsewhere!".
In 2008, when the Lakers netted in Pau Gasol, like a spoiled brat getting his treat, he was happy but never apologized to the franchise for his detrimental conduct towards his teammates and organization.
I rank him:
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Magic Johnson
3. George Mikan
4. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5. Jerry West
6. Elgin Baylor
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. James Worthy
9. Michael Cooper
10. Derek Fisher
11. Vern Mikkelsen / Slater Martin
As far as Kobe Bryant's on court performance, yes he can be considered as among the Laker's greats with him surpassing Jerry West on the All-Time Scoring record on the franchise and he has 5 Championships to equal the feat of Magic Johnson / George Mikan; and 1 more would elevate him from his predecessors.
But as far as being a "Minneapolis / Los Angeles Lakers" member on upholding the integrity and illustrious history that the well loved players on the franchise's history have brought upon through on-court exploits and off-court exploits, Kobe was among the WORST. He had a sexual-assault lawsuit on Colorado, publicly yelled "Trade Me!, I'd rather be playing elsewhere!".
In 2008, when the Lakers netted in Pau Gasol, like a spoiled brat getting his treat, he was happy but never apologized to the franchise for his detrimental conduct towards his teammates and organization.
I rank him:
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Magic Johnson
3. George Mikan
4. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5. Jerry West
6. Elgin Baylor
7. Wilt Chamberlain
8. James Worthy
9. Michael Cooper
10. Derek Fisher
11. Vern Mikkelsen / Slater Martin
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Saskibaloia2
Guest
7 Reasons why Kobe ISN'T the Greatest Laker ever!
7 Reasons why Kobe ISN'T the Greatest Laker ever!
1. First three rings weren't his (they're Shaq's)
2. Had those Off Court problems
3. Wanted Lakers to trade him - other Laker Greats never did that
4. Unlike other Laker Greats Kobe is known to be someone who prefers to NEGATIVELY criticize his team mates rather than to provide positive constructive criticism
5. He's nothing without Pau Gasol
6. He's nothing without Phil Jackson
7. Unlike Magic (The Greatest Laker Ever), Kobe only knows how to pass to one place - the rim
My Rankings:
1. Magic
2. Kareem
3. J. West
4. Kobe
5. Chamberlain
7 Reasons why Kobe ISN'T the Greatest Laker ever!
1. First three rings weren't his (they're Shaq's)
2. Had those Off Court problems
3. Wanted Lakers to trade him - other Laker Greats never did that
4. Unlike other Laker Greats Kobe is known to be someone who prefers to NEGATIVELY criticize his team mates rather than to provide positive constructive criticism
5. He's nothing without Pau Gasol
6. He's nothing without Phil Jackson
7. Unlike Magic (The Greatest Laker Ever), Kobe only knows how to pass to one place - the rim
My Rankings:
1. Magic
2. Kareem
3. J. West
4. Kobe
5. Chamberlain
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nic392
Guest
Kobe Bryant- Depth of Intensity
Kobe Bryant- Depth of Intensity
Kobe Bryant- Depth of Intensity
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mon232
Guest
In Magic Johnson's career with the Lakers (not counting his comeback in '96), from 1979-80 to 1991. LA missed the finals only 3 times, 1981, 1986, 1990, the showtime LA then had a star-studded lineup compared to Kobe Bryant's team. but Magic Johnson, without Kareem was still able to lead the Lakers to 63 wins in the 1990 season, and a return to finals the following season, Kobe Bryant, without Shaq, took three more years before making a return trip to the championship in '08, Magic has also proven he can win, with a coach not named Pat Riley (Mike Dunleavy), we dont know yet about Kobe if the Lakers will be handled by a different coach, should Phil Jackson retire.
While its disappointing 3 of the 4 finals losses by Magic Johnson were two 0-4 sweeps, and 1-4, Magic is 5-4 in NBA finals series, Bryant currently is 5-2 and I expect the Lakers to at least figure in two more championship appearances, beating LeBron James and the Miami Heat for Kobe's 6th title won't make any cases of Bryant being the G.O.A.T or greater than MJ, I'd take the '97-'98 Utah Jazz anytime over the current Miami Heat. The verdict is that Kobe is closing in with Magic as "The Greatest Laker Ever."
While its disappointing 3 of the 4 finals losses by Magic Johnson were two 0-4 sweeps, and 1-4, Magic is 5-4 in NBA finals series, Bryant currently is 5-2 and I expect the Lakers to at least figure in two more championship appearances, beating LeBron James and the Miami Heat for Kobe's 6th title won't make any cases of Bryant being the G.O.A.T or greater than MJ, I'd take the '97-'98 Utah Jazz anytime over the current Miami Heat. The verdict is that Kobe is closing in with Magic as "The Greatest Laker Ever."
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CKR132
Guest
I'll have to revise my list by inserting in Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom. Also, a change of mind....
1. Kobe Bryant
2. Magic Johnson
3. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
4. George Mikan / Shaquille O'Neal
5. Jerry West
6. Pau Gasol
7. Elgin Baylor
8. James Worthy
9. Derek Fisher / Lamar Odom
10. Michael Cooper
11. Vern Mikkelsen / Slater Martin
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Strida2
Guest
No way is Kobe even close to being the greatest Laker ever. Kareem and Magic are worlds ahead of him.
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Alvertis42
Guest
Top 5 at best
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giljr2
Guest
Hmm. I think he is one of the best not the best. There are many good players way back 80's and 90's and they give many championship to the Lakers. But i love what Kobe is playing. He is a good shooter and also a good player.
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Saskibaloia2
Guest
Kobe Bryant passes Hakeem Olajuwon for 8th on the NBA all-time scoring list
As everyone in InterBasket has known since I joined this forum (back in 2005) that I am probably the biggest Kobe Hater (sorry Matt, I hate Kobe more than you lol) in the forum.
However, the lad has just surpassed "The Dream" on the NBA's All Time List. This is another reason why I am growing in respecting the lad as a player and on the record I am quite impressed with his ability to speak Italian, even though I know he grew up in Italy for 8 years but the fact that he still has decided to continue to speak Italian.
I am confident that he could lead his team to one more championship within the next 3 years and after 5 years after calling it quits, many fans, analysts and Hall of Famers will put him as the Greatest Laker and even put him on the podium alongside Jordan.
He is definitely in the top 4 of all time in terms of offensive abilities and is considered by many as the 2nd best perimeter defender after Jordan, in addition he has the other abilites and tangibles that make him a top 5 player of all time. But what about his days as only the "sidekick" to the 3rd Greatest Centre of All Time (Shaq) or his dark days as the ultimate ball-hog from 2005 to 2007? Does that hurt his chances of being considered alongside Jordan or even Magic?
Only time will tell whether or not he will be considered the Greatest Laker of Time or even alongside Mike as the Greatest Player Ever.
As everyone in InterBasket has known since I joined this forum (back in 2005) that I am probably the biggest Kobe Hater (sorry Matt, I hate Kobe more than you lol) in the forum.
However, the lad has just surpassed "The Dream" on the NBA's All Time List. This is another reason why I am growing in respecting the lad as a player and on the record I am quite impressed with his ability to speak Italian, even though I know he grew up in Italy for 8 years but the fact that he still has decided to continue to speak Italian.
I am confident that he could lead his team to one more championship within the next 3 years and after 5 years after calling it quits, many fans, analysts and Hall of Famers will put him as the Greatest Laker and even put him on the podium alongside Jordan.
He is definitely in the top 4 of all time in terms of offensive abilities and is considered by many as the 2nd best perimeter defender after Jordan, in addition he has the other abilites and tangibles that make him a top 5 player of all time. But what about his days as only the "sidekick" to the 3rd Greatest Centre of All Time (Shaq) or his dark days as the ultimate ball-hog from 2005 to 2007? Does that hurt his chances of being considered alongside Jordan or even Magic?
Only time will tell whether or not he will be considered the Greatest Laker of Time or even alongside Mike as the Greatest Player Ever.
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Strida2
Guest
Most people (including myself) will only put him in the Top 10.
What hurts Kobe is the fact that he has ONE MVP, and that was more of a lifetime achievement award, if anything. Everybody else in the GOAT discussions have more than one.
How can Kobe be considered up there with Jordan if Kobe was only ONCE considered to be the best in the NBA?
What hurts Kobe is the fact that he has ONE MVP, and that was more of a lifetime achievement award, if anything. Everybody else in the GOAT discussions have more than one.
How can Kobe be considered up there with Jordan if Kobe was only ONCE considered to be the best in the NBA?
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Saskibaloia2
Guest
Valid point my friend but it's tough to argue when the lad has rings
However, many Bball fans would argue that though he does not have the MVP for the regular season, the regular season is a place for basketball superstars and not immortals, as the playoffs are the place for immortals to be born, that's why Kobe Lovers love to talk about his rings.
He's just passed Moses Malone on the All Time List for Scoring.
Personally, I think he's top 5 but if he gets the 6th ring, it's hard for Kobe Haters like myself to not put him in the top 3 with Magic and Mike. Of course, Kobe Lovers and those who are neither Kobe Lovers or Kobe Haters would put him in the same discussion as Mike all because of those rings.
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NorCal2
Guest
Valid point my friend but it's tough to argue when the lad has rings
However, many Bball fans would argue that though he does not have the MVP for the regular season, the regular season is a place for basketball superstars and not immortals, as the playoffs are the place for immortals to be born, that's why Kobe Lovers love to talk about his rings.
He's just passed Moses Malone on the All Time List for Scoring.
Personally, I think he's top 5 but if he gets the 6th ring, it's hard for Kobe Haters like myself to not put him in the top 3 with Magic and Mike. Of course, Kobe Lovers and those who are neither Kobe Lovers or Kobe Haters would put him in the same discussion as Mike all because of those rings.
I'm as big of a Kobe hater as you'll find but he is definitely a top 10 player of all time. Top 5 is debatable. I think clearly there are a top 6 group of players that most experts will agree on: Jordan, Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird and Wilt. I would still have Kobe ranked just below them.
And even if he does get his sixth or even seventh I really don't think he'll reach MJ's status. My basic argument for that goes: MJ won more consistently and more often with less talent around him, while carrying a bigger load than anyone else in the history of the NBA.
Those who want to say any of the other players on the list are the best of all time can only pick one facet where their player may match or exceed Michael. For instance, the most prevalent example these days is the Kobe backers stating that if Kobe gets a sixth ring he will be in the conversation for best player ever. Kobe is a phenomenal, unbelievable player but when Kobe won rings he won it with more talent than Michael had around him and he didn't have to carry as big of a load as MJ did. On top of which, the per game statistics and the advanced statistics tell that MJ was more dominant so the case doesn't hold. MJ has him beat on the team side and on the individual side.