How Would Barcelona do in NBA?

[SunOverHStreet]

Quick thought about Ilgauskas, I don't want to get too far off topic but he really impresses me with how productive he has been in his career given his obvious limitations. He's slow, he doesn't jump high, he's really not that strong even but he's consistently gotten it done.

European lad, obviously...

 

[NorCal2]

Maybe you should try to watch some Euroleague games, since you're not able to think out of the "NBA molded" box.
Childress was never a star here, and truth to be told, he was bloody awful in his first season. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against him, but IMO he never justified the amount of money he got in Olympiakos.
As for for him being named in All Euroleague 2nd team, well, the answer lies in the bolded part... He played very good last season, fulfilled his role, his team reached finals, so he got rewarded. But, I'm not so sure about his pick, if Olympiakos didn't reach the final four (yes, Euroleague is funny little organization).
You see, Alex Marić was in the first team, but any of Euroleague fans would laugh at that idea that he could be considered as a star in Europe. Just year ago, he was playing bad for bottom table ACB team from Granada. He signed for Partizan, coach knew how to use him properly and his game greatly improved. All I'm saying is that one can't become a star over night, it doesn't work that way, especially in Europe. And, someone already mentioned it, there's no media hype here surrounding players like in NBA (which can do damage in some of the cases... ->Rubio).

I am sure I don't watch as many Euroleague games as you but in the games I did watch Childress looked like one of the best, if not the best player on the court last year. He took a year to understand the nuances of the European game when many Americans thought he would star there from day one, that I admit. But from what I've seen he was a star over there by the end of his second year, or no?

If he wasn't one of the top 10 players in Euroleague where would you rank him, top 20? And didn't he lead the A1 in scoring last year too?

 

[SunOverHStreet]

I am sure I don't watch as many Euroleague games as you but in the games I did watch Childress looked like one of the best, if not the best player on the court last year. He took a year to understand the nuances of the European game when many Americans thought he would star there from day one, that I admit. But from what I've seen he was a star over there by the end of his second year, or no?

If he wasn't one of the top 10 players in Euroleague where would you rank him, top 20? And didn't he lead the A1 in scoring last year too?

Well, I would say that he was in the top10 best forwards last year. Truth to be told, and this is not easy for me believe me, hole team of Olympiakos blossomed 'cause of Teodosić's good displays. Childress simply thrived on it. Let's say this way, he was behind Kleiza and Teodosić in Olympiakos. I will not try to compare it with the rest of Europe...

 

[Southpaw2]

WHERE to best measure? Doesn't matter. It wont give you a definitive answer since as you say it's not perfect. You prove nothing by it.

How? Now that is the more important question you should be asking. How can we find the best measuring ground of skills and talent?

My answer. NOT by letting it depend entirely on the WHERE.

You can find it by playing against the best competition and against the best players in the world. The best players and best competition is in the NBA. Nuff said.

 

[Southpaw2]

Well, I would say that he was in the top10 best forwards last year. Truth to be told, and this is not easy for me believe me, hole team of Olympiakos blossomed 'cause of Teodosić's good displays. Childress simply thrived on it. Let's say this way, he was behind Kleiza and Teodosić in Olympiakos. I will not try to compare it with the rest of Europe...

Did you say he was role player and now he was top 10 forward. Going by your logic, he's a top 10 forwards = role player. Wow, Scola is not even a top 20 forwards in the NBA so he must be a scrub.

 

[Southpaw2]

I am sure I don't watch as many Euroleague games as you but in the games I did watch Childress looked like one of the best, if not the best player on the court last year. He took a year to understand the nuances of the European game when many Americans thought he would star there from day one, that I admit. But from what I've seen he was a star over there by the end of his second year, or no?

If he wasn't one of the top 10 players in Euroleague where would you rank him, top 20? And didn't he lead the A1 in scoring last year too?

American tend to struggle in their first year in Euro because it's a different style of basketball. Childress proved his worth and though I don't watch Euro basketball of like most of the guys here, Childress was one of the best players in Europe last year in one of the best team. But since I watch a lot NBA games, I know Childress is the 6th best players when he was in Atlanta, a team that barely made the playoff when he was there. If guys think otherwise, then its their opinion. FACT: Childress is in all league 2nd team with a stats of 15 ppg 4.8 rbg 1.9 assist 1.2 steals while playing the most minutes on a loaded team at 32 minutes a game, wow what a ROLE PLAYER. Like they say man can lie but numbers doesn't lie.

 

[Southpaw2]

You use the word BEST, which is an absolute term. And measuring skills can not be dealt in absolute terms.

You think that if someone performs in the NBA, can also play in Europe and is therefore a better player than the European player which performs excellent in Europe and can not play in the NBA.

If you want, we can create a new thread on the forum and make a list of players who do not play or did not make it in the NBA, but are still considered by many to be better players than the one who perform in the NBA.

Sure it's subjective. But that's my point, there are different ways to measure quality. Performing in the NBA is not a necesity.

Example:
Spanoulis > Tony Delk

Moreover,
I could easily assemble at least a full NBA and Eurleague player squad with
this kind of comparisons and be pretty sure that the EL team will be better.

Ilgauskas, Turriaf, Bargnani, Childress,...list goes on. We have quite some
better players than these in Europe.

Anyway, If you don t get this...too bad

Spanoulis can't even beat Alston and Luther Head on rotation on his forgetable Rockets stint and yet you claimed he's better than Delk. Its your opinion by
the way. He's probable more skilled but he has to prove it against the best competition.

Ilgaauskas, Turiaf, Bargnani and Childress hardly played in Europe. If you
have quite some better players than them they should be in the NBA like Gasol, Nowitzki, Parker and Manu and let them proved how good they are. I
am pretty sure they would rather be like them than like Navarro, Siskauskas,
VSpan, Teodisic.

Here's what VSpan did on NBA level.

VSpan: They call me TMac of Europe
JVG: Well we have the real TMac here and you are a turnover machine. Sit down.
TMac : Give me the ball and get out of my way
Yao Ming: passed me the ball you can't draw defense like me.
VSpan: Forget this I am coming back to Europe.
Rockets fans : Goodbye TMac, we hardly knew you but don't let the door hit you.

 

[Victorious2]

You can find it by playing against the best competition and against the best players in the world. The best players and best competition is in the NBA. Nuff said.

Well, it seems most people agree with me except you.

Vive la difference!

 

[SunOverHStreet]

Did you say he was role player and now he was top 10 forward. Going by your logic, he's a top 10 forwards = role player. Wow, Scola is not even a top 20 forwards in the NBA so he must be a scrub.

Euroleague and NBA can't be compared that way, simple as that.
P.S.
Are you having personality disorder or something? You're taking a stance like you're David Stern himself, for God's sake...

American tend to struggle in their first year in Euro because it's a different style of basketball. Childress proved his worth and though I don't watch Euro basketball of like most of the guys here, Childress was one of the best players in Europe last year in one of the best team. But since I watch a lot NBA games, I know Childress is the 6th best players when he was in Atlanta, a team that barely made the playoff when he was there. If guys think otherwise, then its their opinion. FACT: Childress is in all league 2nd team with a stats of 15 ppg 4.8 rbg 1.9 assist 1.2 steals while playing the most minutes on a loaded team at 32 minutes a game, wow what a ROLE PLAYER. Like they say man can lie but numbers doesn't lie.

You find yourself eligible to talk about this matter, even though you don't watch it? Let me put it this way for you, since you're all into numbers, he was their third option by ranking behind Kleiza and Teodosić, he was never a go-to guy in Olympiakos and on his position his back-ups were 19 year old Papanikolaou and a limited guy Vasilopoulos. Go figure out yourself.
I think that it's been mentioned here how a third option can't be a star in the team... Am I right?
One more thing, so a player can't be good and in the same time a role player? I'm confused, your perception of European basketball is seen trough NBA colored glasses, simply it doesn't go that way. You said it yourself, Europe is totally different system...

 

[Strida2]

Well, it seems most people agree with me except you.

Vive la difference!

What, about NBA having the best players and best competition? That's not exactly a minority opinion.

In fact, this is the ONLY forum I've seen that actually has members that doesn't agree with that statement.

 

[Southpaw2]

Euroleague and NBA can't be compared that way, simple as that.
P.S.
Are you having personality disorder or something? You're taking a stance like you're David Stern himself, for God's sake...


You find yourself eligible to talk about this matter, even though you don't watch it? Let me put it this way for you, since you're all into numbers, he was their third option by ranking behind Kleiza and Teodosić, he was never a go-to guy in Olympiakos and on his position his back-ups were 19 year old Papanikolaou and a limited guy Vasilopoulos. Go figure out yourself.
I think that it's been mentioned here how a third option can't be a star in the team... Am I right?
One more thing, so a player can't be good and in the same time a role player? I'm confused, your perception of European basketball is seen trough NBA
colored glasses, simply it doesn't go that way. You said it yourself, Europe is
totally different system...

i provided FACTS and your subjective opinion on Childress. So let's forget about Childress. Since you have Kleiza ahead on him and he was named in First team and a top scorer in Europe. Kleiza is the 6th best player in Denver and probably not in the in top 40 forwards in the NBA. So going by your logic he must be a scrub.

 

[Southpaw2]

Well, it seems most people agree with me except you.

Vive la difference!

whatever floats your boat. So using your logic , most people agree that VSpan is a better player than Dirk Nowitzki. Great I like this forum. In the kingdom of blind, one eyed man is the king. He he he he

 

[SunOverHStreet]

i provided FACTS and your subjective opinion on Childress. So let's forget about Childress. Since you have Kleiza ahead on him and he was named in First team and a top scorer in Europe. Kleiza is the 6th best player in Denver and probably not in the in top 40 forwards in the NBA. So going by your logic he must be a scrub.

Are you crazy? What facts? What personal opinion? And, nah... I will not forget about Childress...
Do you want a proof of what I was saying, here you are...
Josh Childress Rkg 15.3
Linas Kleiza Rkg 17.9
Miloš Teodosić Rkg 16.8

I never compared NBA and Euroleague, nor it's players. I expressed my opinion about NBA earlier in this thread and I wont do it again. You should read more, instead of implying something like that bolded bullshit part, I see you doing it regularly here.

 

[GR8BBALL2]

Everyone agrees the nba is where the best basketball is played.

Now besides this:
A number of players in Europe are good enough to play in the nba. Many of them choose to stay at home and play at the top level of competition close to home.

Spanoulis chose to leave the Rockets even after he was traded to the Spurs because he didn't want to stay there any more. JVG was an idiot he tried to play him as a spot up shooter and after a couple of games he took him out of the rotation (some personal stuff happened). This discussion will be endless. Please note that JVG contract was not renewed after that year. It is just that Europeans are often times underestimated by nba coaches because they don't know them.


Now re: comparisons there is a flip side of the coin:

* Von wafer was waived by Olympiacos last year because he couldn't play any defense, and looked totally lost on court. He was a nice rotation player for the Rockets and now it seems he will play for Boston.
* Jannero Pargo has been a rotation player in the nba for a long time but was waived by Olympiacos 2 years ago. I personally think it was a bad decision by Olympiacos though.
* Delk played worse than Spanoulis in PAO that's a fact.

I think that the 2-3 nba-only fans in here just don't want to be convinced. They don't follow European leagues or the Euroleague so it's difficult to understand the culture of the game overseas. I personally enjoy European bball and ncaa as much as the nba.

ps. Let's see what the excuses from the same 2-3 persons will be when Peko, Splitter and Kleiza will start rolling.

 

[Victorious2]

What, about NBA having the best players and best competition? That's not exactly a minority opinion.

In fact, this is the ONLY forum I've seen that actually has members that doesn't agree with that statement.

Basicly, that there are players outside the NBA that are just as good or better than some NBA rotation players.

 

[Victorious2]

whatever floats your boat. So using your logic , most people agree that VSpan is a better player than Dirk Nowitzki. Great I like this forum. In the kingdom of blind, one eyed man is the king. He he he he

The fact that you make up things in order to make your point says it all. BTW Never said you were blind

 

[Strida2]

Basicly, that there are players outside the NBA that are just as good or better than some NBA rotation players.

See, THAT makes sense. I just think that saying something like, "Most of the NBA is interchangeable with non-NBA players" doesn't make much sense at all.

 

[Southpaw2]

Everyone agrees the nba is where the best basketball is played.

Now besides this:
A number of players in Europe are good enough to play in the nba. Many of them choose to stay at home and play at the top level of competition close to home.

Spanoulis chose to leave the Rockets even after he was traded to the Spurs because he didn't want to stay there any more. JVG was an idiot he tried to play him as a spot up shooter and after a couple of games he took him out of the rotation (some personal stuff happened). This discussion will be endless. Please note that JVG contract was not renewed after that year. It is just that Europeans are often times underestimated by nba coaches because they don't know them.

Now re: comparisons there is a flip side of
the coin:

* Von wafer was waived by Olympiacos last
year because he couldn't play any defense,
and looked totally lost on court. He was a
nice rotation player for the Rockets and now
it seems he will play for Boston.
* Jannero Pargo has been a rotation player in the nba for a long time but was waived by
Olympiacos 2 years ago. I personally think it
was a bad decision by Olympiacos though.
* Delk played worse than Spanoulis in PAO that's a fact
I think that the 2-3 nba-only fans in here just don't want to be convinced. They don't
follow European leagues or the Euroleague so
it's difficult to understand the culture of the
game overseas. I personally enjoy European
bball and ncaa as much as the nba.

ps. Let's see what the excuses from the same 2-3 persons will be when Peko, Splitter
and Kleiza will start rolling.

You made a lot of good statements here but let me make myself clear. There are some Euro players that are better than some NBA
players. But to proved that they have to measure their game to NBA.

Case in point, VSpan is a superstar in Euro and Bruce Bowen will never become a superstar in Europe. But this is why I think Bowen is a better player. Basketball is played at both ends. There is offensive skills which VSpan possess and there is Defensive skills which Bowen possess. Bowen proved his skills against the game best players while VSpan struggled to proved his skills against the best. Let me put it this way, you guys tend to overlook the defensive aspect of the game.

Using Delk comparison is not a good analogy. Delk was in a twilight of his career when he came to Europe.

Kleiza already proved his skills in the NBA. If Splitter and Peko becomes good NBA player than I will not doubt their skills.

Well obviously you have some good points.

 

[Southpaw2]

Basicly, that there are players outside the NBA that are just as good or better than some NBA rotation players.

Yeah but they have to prove their game in the NBA level.

 

[Southpaw2]

See, THAT makes sense. I just think that saying something like, "Most of the NBA is interchangeable with non-NBA players" doesn't make much sense at all.

Euro fans are jumping on this interchangeable wagon. LMAO. Role players have to play DEFENSE in the NBA.