Group B, Day 2: Greece vs. Philippines

[DRRC2]

Good game by Greece
They Are the better team today
LA wanted to congratulate the guard which is common in the pba and nba but they kept on playing making the 3
I don't blame them bec point differential is going to be important escpecially in a tough group like ours
It's just our players are not used to it and may have taken exeption lol

Greece is going to be a force if it can make the 3s to open up the middle

We have 3 games to go and it is going to be a sprint to the finish line to see we will advance
Argentina and Puerto Rico lost today
We need to win all out games to make a statement
2 games to get in and one game to have respect

Dray looks injured so we should go with the system now
Junmar can handle the inside and let the motion ddo go and let's see if it can work
Good luck Gilas

 

[DRRC2]

All theses pba players have a salary cap enforced by the league owners
What they have more are bonuses and lifetime jobs after their career is over

Now the world how good the players are there might be a few that can go out and check the waters out there
You'll never know
But a star in the pba will never become a role player in another league bec he has too much going for him in his homeland

 

[Bad_Shot2]

That's actually quite less than I expected, so Fajardo might be making let's say 80 - 90 thousand which is quite low. Actually I saw your friendlies and he looked like a total scrub but in the last two games he seems to be able to play a decent pick n roll, make his free throws, get good positions inside the paint with soft hands. Plus he has a good physique with a wide filled frame and looks taller than the 2.08 metres he is listed. But maybe leaving Philippines and a stardom career - status over there for a rotation player here or a journeyman's career is not something anyone would do easily.

Overall he would be a project for any team getting him here maybe an investment he wouldn't be ready to produce right away but I see nice things in him

5040000 pesos is the maximum amount alowable salary to top players per year, thats US $115583.
I dont think thats happening soon. His basketball club is greedy. Im sure that they wont alow it even if Fajardo wants to go.

 

[arianinos2]

But a star in the pba will never become a role player in another league bec he has too much going for him in his homeland

Exactly what I was thinking Philippines are a big country with a close to 100 million population and a lot of Filipinos around the world I don't expect anyone leaving this market and recognition to come to Europe and be a role player here it could happen only for the NBA probably.

 

[j_abellana2]

Exactly what I was thinking Philippines are a big country with a close to 100 million population and a lot of Filipinos around the world I don't expect anyone leaving this market and recognition to come to Europe and be a role player here it could happen only for the NBA probably.

Well in that case, you should bring the mountain to Muhammad. The PBA should allow for more foreign players. Give the locals stiffer competition.

 

[DRRC2]

Exactly what I was thinking Philippines are a big country with a close to 100 million population and a lot of Filipinos around the world I don't expect anyone leaving this market and recognition to come to Europe and be a role player here it could happen only for the NBA probably.

Yes you are right
But clubs can always capitalize in them by having a pinoy player bringing in the extra pinoy fans but will be pressured to play significant minutes or fan base will be lost

 

[arianinos2]

Well that's your field you should do that it's the only way to improve at least these kind of players, I see that you have another player Slaughter who also has some positive things going but similarly isn't challenged a lot in games. Anyway that's an issue if you want to compete against European teams, against Asian you can handle them just fine except Iran who plays a more European style but don't worry when Haddadi retires you will be ok ! just like when Ming retired you see how China regressed.

 

[kerouac822]

That last three-pointer by Greece was understandable. Anything can happen in Group B. We saw that earlier with Gilas almost upsetting Croatia and then Senegal getting one over Puerto Rico. This is a group where a team can end up 2-3 and not make it through to the next round on point differential alone.

Gilas did that very same thing -- padding the differential -- against Qatar last year. That Norwood alley-oop to Aguilar with barely any time remaining served as the cushion that pushed them over Chinese Taipei in the second round standings (despite the loss to the latter team in the first group stage and the ugly win against Hong Kong) and into the quarterfinal match-up against Kazakhstan which they won by 30.

This game, though, shows that Gilas doesn't play cute basketball, if "cute" is defined by size alone. While I don't like that cheap Tenorio foul (c'mon, who the f*ck does that in the World Cup?!), Fajardo's amazing play in spot minutes more than made up for the loss. With Haddadi getting on in years and Fajardo just about to reach his prime, Junmar might just become Asia's finest big man in two years.

Also -- there were doubters who thought putting back Blatche for Junmar in the fourth quarter was the wrong move. But at that point, with Greece hitting three-pointers, Coach Chot probably thought he'd rather sub a big for another big so as not to weaken the perimeter defense any further. Greece displayed pinpoint passing, both around the perimeter and to cutters inside the lane, and letting the Greeks pound them inside would've been less painful than letting them score from the outside in bunches.

But wow, Printezis. The guy was everywhere. I haven't watched Euro basketball for quite some time now, but everytime your team has a big guy who can box out and run the floor like that, you're bound to be successful.

 

[durden_tyler2]

Greece was Croatia on steroids (that's a compliment). We threw everything at them (including L.A.'s nut shot) but they wouldn't fold. i guess that's why they are ranked 5th in the world.

 

[13wowowee2]

Just saying. Top tier teams have done it frequently. They knew when to step up and when there were big games. But okay, you want to fight every game, I can respect that too. Just giving some second thoughts.

This what im talking about. Fighting heart alone wont bring us to the next round. Strategies i think can help

 

[IshmaelM2]

Top players in the philippines are only receiving 120 000 dollars. Its the limit being given by the league which is the PBA.
And yeah he's only facing smaller guys at center possition(6-5)(6-6).
Fajardo BBIQ is somewhat low but maybe he can learn something in there.

I don't know why this general conception that JF's BBIQ is low. The guy started playing basketball at 16 or 17. And yet led his college team to multiple championships. His college league is probably third at best behind UAAP and NCAA and yet he won the professional league MVP only in his second year.

Many only see his slow weak side rotations, below par rim protection (compared to Greg and Japeth). They dont see his fundamentals of boxing out his man and setting good screens and seals for his teammates. This is the first time the guy is getting meaningful minutes against players of this size, athleticism and skill and yet many here are ready to replace with him Beau, a 6'6 undersized, overweight but 3 pt shooting center. Ano nalang kaya nangyari sa atin kung nakinig si Chot sa inyo?

June Mar doesnt have the foot speed and athleticism of Japeth nor the combined vertical leap and standing reach of Greg but he became our MVP for a reason, he likes doing the dirty work and he is a fast learner. He improved from a disappointing bust in his first two conferences to an MVP only after 3 conferences. And yet many of us are quick to give up on the guy. Some of us even say that if you're good you're good no matter the competition. Ask that to Lee and RDO, our best players in the recent Fiba Asia, who are still adjusting.

June Mar may not be as athletic as Japeth or as long as Greg but he is a fast leaner and probably a faster learner than Greg. His team in the PBA basically forbids him to take any shot but under the rim but now you see him making some quick release jumpers after only a handful of games against international competition. Lets stop this nonsense that June Mar has a low basketball intelligence. He lacks international experience that is all. Any of the previous naysayers keen to prove me wrong?

 

[Jubilum2]

I meant it annoyed the greek players, that's why they shot the last 3. Fighting 'til the end is nice and all but the best thing for both teams would be to slow down the tempo when the result was more or less clear.

Greek wanted to show they are not Croatia and badly wanted a blowout win against Phils, the reason even at the last seconds they shot that 3, but they cannot because of our boys' fighting spirit...."puso!" to put it.

But may this also serve as a lesson to our boys that in international game, a single point is important. Score until the sound of the buzzer.

It was a good game.

 

[Bad_Shot2]

I don't know why this general conception that JF's BBIQ is low. The guy started playing basketball at 16 or 17. And yet led his college team to multiple championships. His college league is probably third at best behind UAAP and NCAA and yet he won the professional league MVP only in his second year.

Many only see his slow weak side rotations, below par rim protection (compared to Greg and Japeth). They dont see his fundamentals of boxing out his man and setting good screens and seals for his teammates. This is the first time the guy is getting meaningful minutes against players of this size, athleticism and skill and yet many here are ready to replace with him Beau, a 6'6 undersized, overweight but 3 pt shooting center. Ano nalang kaya nangyari sa atin kung nakinig si Chot sa inyo?

June Mar doesnt have the foot speed and athleticism of Japeth nor the combined vertical leap and standing reach of Greg but he became our MVP for a reason, he likes doing the dirty work and he is a fast learner. He improved from a disappointing bust in his first two conferences to an MVP only after 3 conferences. And yet many of us are quick to give up on the guy. Some of us even say that if you're good you're good no matter the competition. Ask that to Lee and RDO, our best players in the recent Fiba Asia, who are still adjusting.

June Mar may not be as athletic as Japeth or as long as Greg but he is a fast leaner and probably a faster learner than Greg. His team in the PBA basically forbids him to take any shot but under the rim but now you see him making some quick release jumpers after only a handful of games against international competition. Lets stop this nonsense that June Mar has a low basketball intelligence. He lacks international experience that is all. Any of the previous naysayers keen to prove me wrong?

I dont know if you know how basketball works and the so called BBIQ is. You said too many things and it didnt even validate how or why did you think that Fajardo have some superb BBIQ.

So you are saying that Fajardo being the MVP in the PBA makes you think that he has High BBIQ? LOL
Its just like saying that Gary David is, in his prime he was Scoring machine and scoring champion so has High BBIQ.

Oh My! You're measuring BBIQ by (Leaping ability), (Standing Reach), and even (Foot Speed).

In the current Gilas lineup with highest BBIQ are Ranidel and Pingris
Japeth = Fajardo < Slaughter in terms of BBIQ

 

[the_arkangel2]

I dont know if you know how basketball works and the so called BBIQ is. You said too many things and it didnt even validate how or why did you think that Fajardo have some superb BBIQ.

So you are saying that Fajardo being the MVP in the PBA makes you think that he has High BBIQ? LOL
Its just like saying that Gary David is, in his prime he was Scoring machine and scoring champion so has High BBIQ.

Oh My! You're measuring BBIQ by (Leaping ability), (Standing Reach), and even (Foot Speed).

In the current Gilas lineup with highest BBIQ are Ranidel and Pingris
Japeth = Fajardo < Slaughter in terms of BBIQ

So then... how do you measure Basketball IQ? Do you have a set of mental tests to determine it? Do you need to hit certain stats to achieve it? Do you have any qualitative/quantitative controlled measures to know it? Or is determined by what I say so, what he says so, what you say so? In short, it is just "based on my opinion his BBIQ is __________"?

 

[dakaprekezeke2]

So then... how do you measure Basketball IQ? Do you have a set of mental tests to determine it? Do you need to hit certain stats to achieve it? Do you have any qualitative/quantitative controlled measures to know it? Or is determined by what I say so, what he says so, what you say so? In short, it is just "based on my opinion his BBIQ is __________"?

You don't measure it but you see it : anticipating your teammates position for passes, quickly adapting to the opponents defense, knowing how to play in different tactic schemes, doing simple and effective fakes etc... and mostly adapting your game to the opponents weaknesses and your teamates strenghts...I would say for a bb IQ defintion, which is high in euroleague which is very tactical, more than in philipines where the strenghts seem to be good dribbling technique, speed, enthousiasm and good shooting...

And on the other hand it's a good style of game more free and philipinos would be even more competitive if they had mor height.

 

[IshmaelM2]

I dont know if you know how basketball works and the so called BBIQ is. You said too many things and it didnt even validate how or why did you think that Fajardo have some superb BBIQ.

So you are saying that Fajardo being the MVP in the PBA makes you think that he has High BBIQ? LOL
Its just like saying that Gary David is, in his prime he was Scoring machine and scoring champion so has High BBIQ.

Oh My! You're measuring BBIQ by (Leaping ability), (Standing Reach), and even (Foot Speed).

In the current Gilas lineup with highest BBIQ are Ranidel and Pingris
Japeth = Fajardo < Slaughter in terms of BBIQ

BBIQ is a subjective term but you can support it with stats and with specific plays a player makes or not makes.

If I am watching JF and I'm seeing how poorly he is at rim protection I could say that the guy has low BBIQ. Or if I see him always getting blocked down low. In that tune-up game when he didn't register a single statistic, I would say: he is a poor player, reacts too slowly, and he seems to have low BBIQ.

But if you dig deeper why he's like that, then you can identify what he needs to work on to minimize his weaknesses. Not just a plain general statement, low BBIQ. If he is slow in the defensive end and the offensive end, then say it. Because, even though I still haven't watched the game, notching 10 pts 7 rebounds 2 blocks, 1 steal in 10 minutes doesn't seem to me to be a guy with low BBIQ. Maybe he was faster in his offensive movement. Maybe he was quicker to react to drives. So now all of a sudden he has a good BBIQ?

Foot speed, vertical leap and standing reach are very important. If you have a higher standing reach, like Greg, you don't have to react as quickly to dribble penetrations because you're fingers can reach 11'6 (combined standing reach, vetical leap) as compared to JF who only reached 11'0. That's 6 inches. JF has to learn to move his feet better and react quicker because he doesn't really jump that high and he doesn't have an elite standing reach. That's why it's important. If you have a high BBIQ you should know you're physical limitations and improve on what you can so you can mitigate your weakness. And it seems JF is doing that and hopefully still keeps on improving. It's not because he has low BBIQ it's because he has low experience in the international game. When you're 6'10 in a land of 6'5 centers you don't have to react quickly to be a decent rim protector. But in a league of 6'5 guards you have to.

 

[reamily2]

I think that's what annoyed people, Greece was always 10-15 points ahead and Philippines kept playing hard till the last minute (which of course they can do but it hurts and tires down both teams).

We believe that we always paractice good habits everytime we play a basketball game whether its a close game or a blowout. That makes our team consistent in any game, friendly or knockout game. tim Cone our pro league grandslam coach believes in that Philosophy

 

[reamily2]

That last three-pointer by Greece was understandable. Anything can happen in Group B. We saw that earlier with Gilas almost upsetting Croatia and then Senegal getting one over Puerto Rico. This is a group where a team can end up 2-3 and not make it through to the next round on point differential alone.

Gilas did that very same thing -- padding the differential -- against Qatar last year. That Norwood alley-oop to Aguilar with barely any time remaining served as the cushion that pushed them over Chinese Taipei in the second round standings (despite the loss to the latter team in the first group stage and the ugly win against Hong Kong) and into the quarterfinal match-up against Kazakhstan which they won by 30.

This game, though, shows that Gilas doesn't play cute basketball, if "cute" is defined by size alone. While I don't like that cheap Tenorio foul (c'mon, who the f*ck does that in the World Cup?!), Fajardo's amazing play in spot minutes more than made up for the loss. With Haddadi getting on in years and Fajardo just about to reach his prime, Junmar might just become Asia's finest big man in two years.

Also -- there were doubters who thought putting back Blatche for Junmar in the fourth quarter was the wrong move. But at that point, with Greece hitting three-pointers, Coach Chot probably thought he'd rather sub a big for another big so as not to weaken the perimeter defense any further. Greece displayed pinpoint passing, both around the perimeter and to cutters inside the lane, and letting the Greeks pound them inside would've been less painful than letting them score from the outside in bunches.

But wow, Printezis. The guy was everywhere. I haven't watched Euro basketball for quite some time now, but everytime your team has a big guy who can box out and run the floor like that, you're bound to be successful.

Thats why Im afan of Jared Dillinger scrappy guys like Printezis to be in NT.. It would make our team mediocre in the perimeter but makes our 5 a blue collar one..

 

[reamily2]

About this point, I was wondering what is the salary of the Filipinos national team players I would assume it must be quite substantial maybe 150 - 200 thousand dollars or more for top players ? Because I think this Fajardo dude if he has a nice development he could possibly hold his own playing at an Euroleague level team as a nice rotation player of course not starting. He has the physical tools with quite a wide frame and seems to be able to hit his free throws plus I think the level of competition he faces in Philippines is not very challenging for him. The other players are just too short to play at this level here except maybe Aguilar but he is 27 already and seems too soft to me while he doesn't shoot the ball that good to be an athletic stretch 4.

If you want a rotational player.. Greg Slaughter might be a better fit. but can't go wrong with Fajardo either

 

[jawo2]

Greece today didnt shoot that well, but at least we won.It is good for us that we dont have the big offensive star but we seem to have a quite deep roster.
This game was for sure a toughest game in comparison to the one against Senegal.

I think that the-out of the blue- lowblow to Papanikolaou was the spark that made everyone upset and somewhat nervous and angry and eventually led to the unnecessary quarrel

Basketball followers like you should know when to give credit where credit is due. Was it really a case of the Greeks failing to shoot better than previous because of themselves or was it because the small Filipinos despite of their size bothered them all game long around the perimeter that caused them to shot poorly from the field? Maybe you need to check your game against Senegal to that of the Philippines.

Size and length are big factors in defense (like Greece' game versus Senegal), but hustle and activeness are the real source for a good defensive performance. The Philippines bothered the Greeks all night and surprised them of the Filipinos' style of play which made the game close and not a shut out as most expected. Greece won simply because of their size but never in skills and technical play, we are just at par with each other. If we had the same size as you are things could have been totally different.

Think about this, you blasted Senegal, a team with more athleticism and size by more than 20 points, but why a small team like the Philippines could only be beaten by you by just 9 points?...I say only 9 and not 12 points because the last one was a steal from your end, we already giving our hand to accept the loss but your coach still wants to score more..for what? A winning margin of 12 from 9 won't make any difference for Greece, especially beating a very small team that is ranked 31 notches away from your 5th ranked billing in the world.

But honestly, for me Greece is the best team in group B, and that is my opinion. You will beat Argentina for sure, but against Croatia should be tougher but I am giving to you the slight advantage because the Greeks are quicker and heftier than Croatia.