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Filipino Players in Foreign Leagues

  • Thread starter Thread starter live_evil2
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With Chet's skill set you can really use him as a small ball 5.
If that makes sense to some... he's a huge prospect weapon for today's NBA. The Spurs would love to have him.. (need to tank more and be winless for remaining games Lol

Here is his write up as the 1st pick
Weighing in at less than 200 pounds despite a 7-foot frame, there are -- and will continue to be -- concerns about Chet Holmgren's long-term durability that shadow his prospects. And it's a big reason why he doesn't rank this high on my Big Board. But Holmgren's ability to space the floor, create, and defend the rim at an elite level -- all on full display this season at Gonzaga -- may be too tantalizing to pass on here given his all-around impact
 
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theirs a reason he hasn’t crack the top 100 yet even with string of double digit scoring.. even kai score in 20’s but the weaknesses still there it will not go up.. and theirs a reason dieng, besson went up..

even he scored nothing but made an impact on his defensive weaknesses then the ratings will go up and the scouts will notice that..

Most of Kai's weaknesses can be made up given time. Nobody's asking, not even me, for Kai to get to the big board. I'm saying his talent should be enough to get there, but I'm satisfied with just getting drafted, or even a draft and stash for further development. People misunderstand, I'm not denying Kai's weaknesses, it's that prospects are drafted for potential and training plus time with the pros should theoretically shore up these weaknesses.

Being a mobile 7'2/7'3 is defense enough in itself. You cannot teach height sabi nga nila.

Why is Kai's defense an issue anyway? Because of positioning and PNR? Like in all cases, that comes with time. Even the DPOY Gobert can't always stop the PNR and 36 year old Chris Paul keeps scoring on him.
 
Most of Kai's weaknesses can be made up given time. Nobody's asking, not even me, for Kai to get to the big board. I'm saying his talent should be enough to get there, but I'm satisfied with just getting drafted, or even a draft and stash for further development. People misunderstand, I'm not denying Kai's weaknesses, it's that prospects are drafted for potential and training plus time with the pros should theoretically shore up these weaknesses.

Being a mobile 7'2/7'3 is defense enough in itself. You cannot teach height sabi nga nila.

Why is Kai's defense an issue anyway?
Because of positioning and PNR? Like in all cases, that comes with time. Even the DPOY Gobert can't always stop the PNR and 36 year old Chris Paul keeps scoring on him.

it’s always an issue.. if you backread, it’s been discussed by some people here.. and it has youtube as well..
 
Jasper
So why do you think scouts still don't rate Kai high?
Conspiracy. Bias . What?

Or perhaps it's the extent of the weaknesses that makes it difficult to envision it can be improved over time ? Is that not a possibility that scouts view it as such.
Note also Kai in the 2022 draft is above the average age , in 2023 it gets worst. And were not talking about a late Boomer here . In fact I reckon Kai has the benefit of the most exposure to NBA personnel.
Perhaps the assessment is not only is Kai's current level not fully developed but the consensus opinion is his upside to address those weaknesses is not realistic
have you ever thought that is a possibility?
Is it not possible that Kai's natural defense abilities is not Gobert type but more sumilar to Boban type ? Think about it.
Natural defense tendencies is a talent, and perhaps Kai does not have that natural talent. (Height alone does not make you a natural talented defender )
 
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Jasper
So why do you think scouts still don't rate Kai high?
Conspiracy. Bias . What?

Or perhaps it's the extent of the weaknesses that makes it difficult to envision it can be improved over time ? Is that not a possibility that scouts view it as such.
Note also Kai in the 2022 draft is above the average age , in 2023 it gets worst. And were not talking about a late Boomer here . In fact I reckon Kai has the benefit of the most exposure to NBA personnel.
Perhaps the assessment is not only is Kai's current level not fully developed but the consensus opinion is his upside to address those weaknesses is not realistic
have you ever thought that is a possibility?
Is it not possible that Kai's natural defense abilities is not Gobert type but more sumilar to Boban type ? Think about it

u porgot Agenda :o
 
Where is loyalty to the PBA?

https://www.philstar.com/sports/2022/02/06/2158814/where-loyalty-pba

The talk is monthly salaries for Asian quota imports are in the range of $8,000 to $30,000 with the average settling at between $15,000 to $20,000. The numbers are enticing even for a Kemark Cariño receiving a salary at the lowest end. It’s difficult to turn your back on that kind of money. But life isn’t all about just money. Filipinos in the B.League are mostly in lower-tier teams, losing more than winning. They’re on their own, outside of their comfort zone, without family, without a support system, sometimes playing minimal minutes, sometimes playing more than minimal. Juan Gomez de Liaño has left Japan and it’s likely more will follow. The agent who’s targeting Class A PBA players to bring to Japan is dangling enormous figures although he wasn’t successful in luring Japeth Aguilar out of Barangay Ginebra. It’s a business for this agent but it may also be his vendetta for getting fired from the PBA. Still, playing overseas is an opportunity for those who are just in it for the money.

Nako. Lotta people on Twitter are taking the piss on Quinito's article. Among them Karlo Lovenia, Joe Viray, Hoops Highlights, and I think even Kilikilishot.
 
0qnrRUp.jpg


This is Chet Holmgren. Wala lang. :rolleyes:


It's wild to me how one game determines Dieng's draft, while Kai has to endure a whole additional season just for people to be sure he's going to get drafted, and even then the doubt is still there. Nevermind that Kai's statline is consistent after coming back from injury. It's like the NBA Draft Reddit threads I posted in the NBL thread a few days ago all over again.

At some point there has to be a concession. To my eyes they're both getting drafted, just that if Kai decides to remain for another year in the NBL his draft stock will go higher because his strength will finally come into play. But there's a risk of staying in a highly physical league, and we've experienced that firsthand.

In relation to the other thread, I understand drafting for potential 100%. That was not my point, since Kai's potential is also there, and in full view by outperforming his fellow big men prospects, nevermind the guards and forwards.



Talent-wise in case of homegrowns, probably. Overall? JMF will still outmuscle him but Kai can keep up now. Let us remember that he was playing with the Gilas pros before TSF.


If I recall it correctly, Kevin Durant faced the same question before the draft; the lack of muscle. Durant was like only 95 kg before being drafted 2nd overall.

Holmgren is already a known commodity since high school. He was so good in high school that even ESPN were featuring highlights of some of his games. Scouts have looked at him for the longest time. Despite the lack of muscle, the kid plays exceptional defense. Has great foot speed for a big man. And his handles are above average for a big man.
 
it’s always an issue.. if you backread, it’s been discussed by some people here.. and it has youtube as well..

I was part of that discussion. I rattled off weaknesses in a post similar to how Yeshkel displayed in his video. I know as well as anybody what they are. I'm just asking if there are more, because a lot of people are somehow convinced that Kai will never get his weaknesses fixed, or that half of his weaknesses are a product of his still developing body.

Jasper
So why do you think scouts still don't rate Kai high?
Conspiracy. Bias . What?

Or perhaps it's the extent of the weaknesses that makes it difficult to envision it can be improved over time ? Is that not a possibility that scouts view it as such.
Note also Kai in the 2022 draft is above the average age , in 2023 it gets worst. And were not talking about a late Boomer here . In fact I reckon Kai has the benefit of the most exposure to NBA personnel.
Perhaps the assessment is not only is Kai's current level not fully developed but the consensus opinion is his upside to address those weaknesses is not realistic
have you ever thought that is a possibility?
Is it not possible that Kai's natural defense abilities is not Gobert type but more sumilar to Boban type ? Think about it.
Natural defense tendencies is a talent, and perhaps Kai does not have that natural talent. (Height alone does not make you a natural talented defender )

I'll compartmentalize my response.

1. Unless we have connections to well placed scouts in the NBA, we have zero idea on who gets drafted until a few weeks or so before it. We are months away. And mocks don't always mirror the real thing; like someone said, Anthony Bennett. Nobody expected the Cavs to take him 1st overall. My opinion about Kai not ranking high has always been to the mocks, not the actual scouts. I've been consistent in this regard.

2. The consensus about Kai's weakness not addressed is also from the mocks, or at least concluded from them. That means we still have no idea about their real gradings. Not only that, but Kai's biggest weakness from the TSF-Ignite days has been addressed, which was speed. He's not the most active player out there but Kai can keep up with NBL pros downhill. Doesn't that show that he can improve on his weaknesses? Or are we going to act like it was never the case?

3. Kai knows how to protect the rim well. We've seen that effect in all of the FIBA games under Coach Tab. I agree that natural defense is a talent that Kai doesn't have, but to imply that he's useless at the NBA level on defense when he's held his own against NBA prospects, NBL players, and Delly, is a bit much.

I already know the stance of the mocks. Nobody has to tell me (or us, in general) how they feel and what the criteria for getting into them are. I think I'm free to point out hypocrisy when I see it, like chalking up X's one game as the draft ticket while Y should go through a whole season despite doing much better. Remember when I was last active, I think this was when Kai was still about to go to the NBL, that if he averaged anywhere near Josh Giddey's numbers, he'd have a real chance going into the draft or something along those lines? I truly think this way still, but at the same time I can also accept that there are factors beyond Kai's control that stop him from being recognized in the mocks. I also think that scouts doing their homework is proof that Kai has legit interest from NBA teams, and that like you and me, there are also foreign opinions that correspond with my line of thinking, like Coach Bruton and Coach Allen.

So in essence, I think the actual scouts in the NBA rate Kai high enough (high enough to be drafted regardless of round) to be asking about him. Not just from what we see, but from training too. It's scarier to have nobody asking about you, than to be ranked low publicly but still be asked about.
 
Is it a crime for an agent to recruit a player for overseas? And the player to accept ?

Do people just go overseas for money . So if you're an artist . And what to expand your experience, that's not allowed?

Isn't that a natural consequence. If you're not active working domestically due to pandemic then find work overseas. Ano masama Doon?

And doesn't that make you a better player for Gilas sake ?

Weird mindset ..
 
If I recall it correctly, Kevin Durant faced the same question before the draft; the lack of muscle. Durant was like only 95 kg before being drafted 2nd overall.

Holmgren is already a known commodity since high school. He was so good in high school that even ESPN were featuring highlights of some of his games. Scouts have looked at him for the longest time. Despite the lack of muscle, the kid plays exceptional defense. Has great foot speed for a big man. And his handles are above average for a big man.

I'm not part of the "Chet is weak" gang, if you're thinking that. I also think Chet is a great prospect.
 
Like all those unpatriotic Americans, Europeans, and Africans playing abroad right?

Boomers should file a protest to NBA and NCAA for recruiting their players to play overseas. How dare they..
I didn't know the Philippines is like old soviet union. Where it's a crime to flee.the state to go overseas
 
There are hundreds of players receiving calls be asked about ., this is not unusual

Mock are not accurate to who teams pick. But historically they are very accurate on identifying who is not in the radar. A player who is not in top 100 in Mocks historically has a very low probability of being selected..
Do not underestimate how connected mainstream NBA writers are . Many have work colleagues who are ex NBA players and coaches..
Mocks are truly very accurate in terms of identifying who are in the radar within a range. Accuracy of those mentioned as lottery picksbeing eventually drafted at least in 2nd round is almost 99% accurate. (Not including withdrawals)
 
I was part of that discussion. I rattled off weaknesses in a post similar to how Yeshkel displayed in his video. I know as well as anybody what they are. I'm just asking if there are more, because a lot of people are somehow convinced that Kai will never get his weaknesses fixed, or that half of his weaknesses are a product of his still developing body.



I'll compartmentalize my response.

1. Unless we have connections to well placed scouts in the NBA, we have zero idea on who gets drafted until a few weeks or so before it. We are months away. And mocks don't always mirror the real thing; like someone said, Anthony Bennett. Nobody expected the Cavs to take him 1st overall. My opinion about Kai not ranking high has always been to the mocks, not the actual scouts. I've been consistent in this regard.

2. The consensus about Kai's weakness not addressed is also from the mocks, or at least concluded from them. That means we still have no idea about their real gradings. Not only that, but Kai's biggest weakness from the TSF-Ignite days has been addressed, which was speed. He's not the most active player out there but Kai can keep up with NBL pros downhill. Doesn't that show that he can improve on his weaknesses? Or are we going to act like it was never the case?

3. Kai knows how to protect the rim well. We've seen that effect in all of the FIBA games under Coach Tab. I agree that natural defense is a talent that Kai doesn't have, but to imply that he's useless at the NBA level on defense when he's held his own against NBA prospects, NBL players, and Delly, is a bit much.

I already know the stance of the mocks. Nobody has to tell me (or us, in general) how they feel and what the criteria for getting into them are. I think I'm free to point out hypocrisy when I see it, like chalking up X's one game as the draft ticket while Y should go through a whole season despite doing much better. Remember when I was last active, I think this was when Kai was still about to go to the NBL, that if he averaged anywhere near Josh Giddey's numbers, he'd have a real chance going into the draft or something along those lines? I truly think this way still, but at the same time I can also accept that there are factors beyond Kai's control that stop him from being recognized in the mocks. I also think that scouts doing their homework is proof that Kai has legit interest from NBA teams, and that like you and me, there are also foreign opinions that correspond with my line of thinking, like Coach Bruton and Coach Allen.

So in essence, I think the actual scouts in the NBA rate Kai high enough (high enough to be drafted regardless of round) to be asking about him. Not just from what we see, but from training too. It's scarier to have nobody asking about you, than to be ranked low publicly but still be asked about.

speed is still kai’s issue.. you can still see kai just jogging going down the defend.. should be sprint..

little things like boxing out still an issue..

still biting on fakes..

his defense will be his ticket to nba..

part of the red flag is he left ignite for NT.. commitment..

given josh giddey average last season, he showed to the world his improvement every single week. his defense, shooting.. and he keeps on improving on those part till this day..
 
Most of Kai's weaknesses can be made up given time. Nobody's asking, not even me, for Kai to get to the big board. I'm saying his talent should be enough to get there, but I'm satisfied with just getting drafted, or even a draft and stash for further development. People misunderstand, I'm not denying Kai's weaknesses, it's that prospects are drafted for potential and training plus time with the pros should theoretically shore up these weaknesses.

Being a mobile 7'2/7'3 is defense enough in itself. You cannot teach height sabi nga nila.

Why is Kai's defense an issue anyway? Because of positioning and PNR? Like in all cases, that comes with time. Even the DPOY Gobert can't always stop the PNR and 36 year old Chris Paul keeps scoring on him.

is he really "NBA" mobile? he's got poor laterals and his moves aren't as fluid as modern NBA bigs. can he do what JLA did and dribble the whole length of the floor for a 2 handed dunk?
 
LOL why can't the cocksuckers and nuthuggers see the obvious that Kai doesn't pass the NBA eye test?
 
There are hundreds of players receiving calls be asked about ., this is not unusual

Mock are not accurate to who teams pick. But historically they are very accurate on identifying who is not in the radar. A player who is not in top 100 in Mocks historically has a very low probability of being selected..
Do not underestimate how connected mainstream NBA writers are . Many have work colleagues who are ex NBA players and coaches..
Mocks are truly very accurate in terms of identifying who are in the radar within a range. Accuracy of those mentioned as lottery picksbeing eventually drafted at least in 2nd round is almost 99% accurate. (Not including withdrawals)

I'm not underestimating mocks, don't worry. Just saying that they can overlook talents. Remember the ESPN Australia pic I posted? They had Kai in the 2nd rd 2020 Draft. That's ESPN too.

Hundreds of players being asked about is also still a plus. Being in consideration beats not being in consideration at all.

speed is still kai’s issue.. you can still see kai just jogging going down the defend.. should be sprint..

little things like boxing out still an issue..

still biting on fakes..

his defense will be his ticket to nba..

part of the red flag is he left ignite for NT.. commitment..

given josh giddey average last season, he showed to the world his improvement every single week. his defense, shooting.. and he keeps on improving on those part till this day..

Speed as in keeping up, not jogging. Taller guys do use more stamina on average unless their motor is just that strong. As for leaving Ignite for NT being a red flag, there have been worse red flags being taken in the draft. Royce White was drafted while being afraid of flying, for example.

Kai has also showed the world his improvement each week. His stats are improving every game.
 
Jasper
So why do you think scouts still don't rate Kai high?
Conspiracy. Bias . What?

Or perhaps it's the extent of the weaknesses that makes it difficult to envision it can be improved over time ? Is that not a possibility that scouts view it as such.
Note also Kai in the 2022 draft is above the average age , in 2023 it gets worst. And were not talking about a late Boomer here . In fact I reckon Kai has the benefit of the most exposure to NBA personnel.
Perhaps the assessment is not only is Kai's current level not fully developed but the consensus opinion is his upside to address those weaknesses is not realistic
have you ever thought that is a possibility?
Is it not possible that Kai's natural defense abilities is not Gobert type but more sumilar to Boban type ? Think about it.
Natural defense tendencies is a talent, and perhaps Kai does not have that natural talent. (Height alone does not make you a natural talented defender )


i dont think kai is that relevant, popular, skilled or significant to warrant attention from the basketball powers that be for them conspire against him, plus what would the basketball world gain if Kai is held back due to some conspiracy? And with the world being woke and diverse, Kai actually is in a better position, plus intl players brings to much money not only for the NBA but for FIBA as well.
 
I'm not underestimating mocks, don't worry. Just saying that they can overlook talents. Remember the ESPN Australia pic I posted? They had Kai in the 2nd rd 2020 Draft. That's ESPN too.

Hundreds of players being asked about is also still a plus. Being in consideration beats not being in consideration at all.



Speed as in keeping up, not jogging. Taller guys do use more stamina on average unless their motor is just that strong. As for leaving Ignite for NT being a red flag, there have been worse red flags being taken in the draft. Royce White was drafted while being afraid of flying, for example.

Kai has also showed the world his improvement each week. His stats are improving every game.

as big cat mentioned, kai needs to improve on that part (speed). he still jogs the floor.. should be sprint..

yep kai’s stats are increasing but not his stocks.. you already know the answer why.. and scouts still ranked him low even with some improvement. maybe they’re not satisfied with what they saw kai defensively
 
Where is loyalty to the PBA?

https://www.philstar.com/sports/2022/02/06/2158814/where-loyalty-pba

The talk is monthly salaries for Asian quota imports are in the range of $8,000 to $30,000 with the average settling at between $15,000 to $20,000. The numbers are enticing even for a Kemark Cariño receiving a salary at the lowest end. It’s difficult to turn your back on that kind of money. But life isn’t all about just money. Filipinos in the B.League are mostly in lower-tier teams, losing more than winning. They’re on their own, outside of their comfort zone, without family, without a support system, sometimes playing minimal minutes, sometimes playing more than minimal. Juan Gomez de Liaño has left Japan and it’s likely more will follow. The agent who’s targeting Class A PBA players to bring to Japan is dangling enormous figures although he wasn’t successful in luring Japeth Aguilar out of Barangay Ginebra. It’s a business for this agent but it may also be his vendetta for getting fired from the PBA. Still, playing overseas is an opportunity for those who are just in it for the money.

facepalm, using the nationalism/patriotism card/narrative, as if the PBA is the Philippines and playing for the league is not business as well

and to think I used to look up to quinito when i was a kid!, him, joe cantada and ed picson were my idols back then, well as they said never meet your heroes..
 
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