Fiba World Cup 2023 Philippines

[zairex2]

Probably just waiting for when an MVP team is in good position to pick him. The B league will be a good preparation for an eventual PBA career. The ABL could've been another option but it's enemy territory there right now. International? A SF at 6'2-6'3? Not too ideal

If those are his reasons then no issue with that. Don't get me wrong if his stint with B.League will pave way for other Pinoys to play there then that will be great. I just have a problem with the notion that B.League will help him so much in developing his skills for international stints.

 

[C2Hamm2]

Thirdy must learn how to be a guard. Unfortunately his playstyle is for small forward.

At Combo guard, you need to be an elite scorer and consistent shooter. Unlike thirdy which playstyle is all around.

in a world of position-less basketball, and position is who you mostly guard, why does it matter too much if he is a combo guard or a small forward?

 

[analyzed2]

in a world of position-less basketball, and position is who you mostly guard, why does it matter too much if he is a combo guard or a small forward?

Correct, with Thirdy, CJ, Dwight and JC playing the 3 perimeter positions it really doesn't matter who's playing 1,2, 3.they all can play a little of each
With Troy and Kobe playing combo forward

And
Kai, AJ, Ange playing as versatile bigs.

That's already 9 players (common rotation for a 40 min game)

 

[mathematicianrcg2]

in a world of position-less basketball, and position is who you mostly guard, why does it matter too much if he is a combo guard or a small forward?

It is still important because you need to know your role. Positionless is not always true. Do you put Kai at point guard? No absolutely.

 

[qwertyz2]

It is still important because you need to know your role. Positionless is not always true. Do you put Kai at point guard? No absolutely.

Thats not the right question to ask tho. Would you let Kai handle the ball and set up the play? Would you put Romeo at the post? Its not about what your position is. Its about what roles you can do at certain positions. Basketball today: your position doesn’t define your role. I do have to say that positions still do exist but only to an extent. Plus Thirdy’s international role is for defense. Although he had some point guard flashes in jones cup. Also showed off some handles back in 2013 3x3.

 

[analyzed2]

Thats not the right question to ask tho. Would you let Kai handle the ball and set up the play? Would you put Romeo at the post? Its not about what your position is. Its about what roles you can do at certain positions. Basketball today: your position doesn’t define your role. I do have to say that positions still do exist but only to an extent. Plus Thirdy’s international role is for defense. Although he had some point guard flashes in jones cup. Also showed off some handles back in 2013 3x3.

That's true , watch this to understand better, it's what they do (tendencies) rather than exact position

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-gpSQQe3w8&t=699s

Of course overall size and mobility matters

There is really no problem if you just brand these 4 as perimeter players - JC, CJ, Dwight and 3dy (They're versatile and big enough to play a little 1 to 3), these maximises talent and size as well. We're not undersize , they can switch defensively 1 to 3

 

[C2Hamm2]

It is still important because you need to know your role. Positionless is not always true. Do you put Kai at point guard? No absolutely.

role is not equal to position. a playmaker is not always the point guard example Luka, Lebron, and Jokic. except for Luka, you dont say Lebron or Jokic are PG even if they can play the part. the question is, can Kai be a playmaker? you already answered it, no.
if I have a Luka or Lebron in my team and other 4 are competent and complementary players, sure Ill put Kai as PG on paper. it really wouldnt matter anyway would it?

 

[analyzed2]

I would add if you have adequate play making ability in Clarkson, Dwight and Thirdy (not PG position players), you really don't need a Pinoy traditional point guard under 6 feet in your main rotation. The role of play making is more than covered plus the length in defense is maintained

Same also is with role of versatile bigs like AJ and Kai they can play either 4 and 5, while Troy and Kobe can play either forward positions as their length and mobility is adequate enough

 

[zairex2]

I would add if you have adequate play making ability in Clarkson, Dwight and Thirdy (not PG position players), you really don't need a Pinoy traditional point guard under 6 feet in your main rotation. The role of play making is more than covered plus the length in defense is maintained

Same also is with role of versatile bigs like AJ and Kai they can play either 4 and 5, while Troy and Kobe can play either forward positions as their length and mobility is adequate enough

Firstly, every player should have mastered fundamentals or basic skill.

I don't agree that we have positionless basketball, its just a term to describe that players now are allowed to shoot anywhere, handle the ball from any spot in the court, less restriction. But this doesn't mean a player as no position on the court or role. Point guard is both a role and a position. Not everyone has the same skillset and training to be a point guard.

Ateneo, Argentina, Spain, etc. have point guards that still bring down the ball majority, set up the play. The unique skill of the point guard is being a coach in the court, seeing advantages in court, sharp passing, the first line of defense most of the time.

You can't have a player bring the ball down then go to through stagger screens like a shooting guard expects him to not tire out. There are still specialists in the game. Some players might help point guard to bring down the ball but you can see the play calling is still going to the point guard.

For Clarkson, he has been trained to be a point guard so no issue with him. For Dwight and Thirdy, they need more training if they want to be an effective PG, I will give the position to Matt Nieto or SJ.

 

[analyzed2]

Positionless is semantics, of course there are still positions, but the point here is more capability skill set, (e.g. playmaking), it's timely we're watching the bulls 98 title documentary Last Dance, technically their starting PG is Harper and back up PG is Kerr, (both are obviously more SG), their best playmaker and leader in assist was Pippen who did it from the SF position.

Did the Bulls lack playmaking because they had no true PG, well they're considered the greatest team!

A good team needs all the skill sets (playmaker, shooter etc) it doesn't necessarily need to come from a specific position (best playmaker can be your SF - like LBJ and Pip) or your best shooter can be your center or big (Dirk)

It's not that they don't have positions, that's not the point here

 

[ja.he2]

Firstly, every player should have mastered fundamentals or basic skill.

I don't agree that we have positionless basketball, its just a term to describe that players now are allowed to shoot anywhere, handle the ball from any spot in the court, less restriction. But this doesn't mean a player as no position on the court or role. Point guard is both a role and a position. Not everyone has the same skillset and training to be a point guard.

Ateneo, Argentina, Spain, etc. have point guards that still bring down the ball majority, set up the play. The unique skill of the point guard is being a coach in the court, seeing advantages in court, sharp passing, the first line of defense most of the time.

You can't have a player bring the ball down then go to through stagger screens like a shooting guard expects him to not tire out. There are still specialists in the game. Some players might help point guard to bring down the ball but you can see the play calling is still going to the point guard.

For Clarkson, he has been trained to be a point guard so no issue with him. For Dwight and Thirdy, they need more training if they want to be an effective PG, I will give the position to Matt Nieto or SJ.

Well, draymond green brings down the ball the majority for GSW and instructing majority of their plays. It is the same case for the likes of Ben Simmons, Hedo Turkoglu, Gordon Hayward and even our own Joe Devance.

 

[zairex2]

Positionless is semantics, of course there are still positions, but the point here is more capability skill set, (e.g. playmaking), it's timely we're watching the bulls 98 title documentary Last Dance, technically their starting PG is Harper and back up PG is Kerr, (both are obviously more SG), their best playmaker and leader in assist was Pippen who did it from the SF position.

Did the Bulls lack playmaking because they had no true PG, well they're considered the greatest team!

A good team needs all the skill sets (playmaker, shooter etc) it doesn't necessarily need to come from a specific position (best playmaker can be your SF - like LBJ and Pip) or your best shooter can be your center or big (Dirk)

It's not that they don't have positions, that's not the point here

Because triangle offense has automatics. Meaning players movements are all pre sets regardless of the defense. You don't need to play call as they use triangle offense 80 to 90%. In that offense they didn't have post play or shooters on the move like Indiana, NY and majority of the league. And in today's game no team is using triangle offense 80% of the time has the defense has catch up with this offense.

What my argument is not one person can do all position or roles to a team. I haven't seen a team with all five players can do all the roles and position for the whole game. Hence positionless. Some players can do two or three which is an exemption not the rule. For Dirk, no one says that a shooter can't be tall what is not common is a 7ft doing a Reggie Miller plays. Going sideline to sideline through screen to shoot on a catch three point shots. I am not saying no 7ft can but its not common. I haven't seen a point guard that is also a rim protector.

I didn't say that height of a player will be the reason alone for him to be good on a certain position but it is a factor.

 

[qwertyz2]

Being positionless doesnt mean doing all 5 positions? It just means playing roles outside your positions which means you cant be defined as that particular position. You could give roles that are meant to be for a certain position to another position.
Example:
Point Guard = Playmaking, ball handling, Floor Leader
Shooting Guard = Scorer, Spot up Shooter,
Small Forward = Perimeter Defender, Slasher, Versatility,
Power Forward = Set Screens, Rebounding
Center = Post, Rim Defender, Rebounding

1. Now everyones role is to rebound whether you are a big or a guard.
2. Power Forwards and Centers have similar roles today. Only PFs could stretch the floor at first and run the floor. Now Centers could shoot consistent 3s. Also with Shooting Guards and Small Forwards. Today you dont even know which is which unless the SG is significantly small.
3. There are literally lineups with PG - 6’8 SG - 6’7 SF - 6’8 PF- 6’8 C - 6’9. Point Guards could switch to bigs and vice versa.
There are still positions yes but again only to an extent. Especially with the offense that is most effective now ‘Flow Offense’. But you’re position doesn’t define your role. Your role comes from your physical attributes and skill set you have. watch Luka Doncic, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Nikola Jokic, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Draymond Green

Also LeBron was playing PG this season right? And he was an all right rim protector.

 

[mathematicianrcg2]

I think it will depends on how we define "Positionless". Looks like we have different definition there. And a word can have a thousand meanings.

But I would conclude that most of the time Position also tells your role. For ex. Champion Spain.

Gasol Brothers are C and PF. So they leave inside the paint. Rubio is the pg so he playmakes. Fernandez is their Sf so he slash and cut. I forgot the name of their SG but he is a spot up shooter.

Again, it is nit true for all teams thats why I said most. And again hoe to we DEFINE "POSITIONLESS" because it can mean no position at all just like boneless means no bones at all.

 

[mathematicianrcg2]

I mean Gasol brothers live in the paint.

 

[analyzed2]

Being positionless doesnt mean doing all 5 positions? It just means playing roles outside your positions which means you cant be defined as that particular position. You could give roles that are meant to be for a certain position to another position.
Example:
Point Guard = Playmaking, ball handling, Floor Leader
Shooting Guard = Scorer, Spot up Shooter,
Small Forward = Perimeter Defender, Slasher, Versatility,
Power Forward = Set Screens, Rebounding
Center = Post, Rim Defender, Rebounding

1. Now everyones role is to rebound whether you are a big or a guard.
2. Power Forwards and Centers have similar roles today. Only PFs could stretch the floor at first and run the floor. Now Centers could shoot consistent 3s. Also with Shooting Guards and Small Forwards. Today you dont even know which is which unless the SG is significantly small.
3. There are literally lineups with PG - 6’8 SG - 6’7 SF - 6’8 PF- 6’8 C - 6’9. Point Guards could switch to bigs and vice versa.
There are still positions yes but again only to an extent. Especially with the offense that is most effective now ‘Flow Offense’. But you’re position doesn’t define your role. Your role comes from your physical attributes and skill set you have. watch Luka Doncic, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Nikola Jokic, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Draymond Green

Also LeBron was playing PG this season right? And he was an all right rim protector.

This is correct, what matters is that you have players that have the skill set to play all the different roles required to be successful
Playmaking
Shootig
Breaking down defense one on one attacking
Rebouding
Rim protector

Etc etc, it does not really matter from what position those skill sets come from - playmaking can come from your forwards - Simmons, Green,

Obviously overall size and speed matters to match up defensivly and the ability to do some skills like rim protector or rebounding

 

[analyzed2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-gpSQQe3w8&t=699s

Watch again, we're not talking about no position or positionless or everyone playing all positions.
We're saying certain skill set roles like playmaking are not confined boxed in to one or mainly one position (PG) there is a difference
Your best playmaker quarterback can actually be your PF and your specialist best shooter can be your PG (Kerr)

 

[C2Hamm2]

I think it will depends on how we define "Positionless". Looks like we have different definition there. And a word can have a thousand meanings.

But I would conclude that most of the time Position also tells your role. For ex. Champion Spain.

Gasol Brothers are C and PF. So they leave inside the paint. Rubio is the pg so he playmakes. Fernandez is their Sf so he slash and cut. I forgot the name of their SG but he is a spot up shooter.

Again, it is nit true for all teams thats why I said most. And again hoe to we DEFINE "POSITIONLESS" because it can mean no position at all just like boneless means no bones at all.

well I replied to you on this:

Thirdy must learn how to be a guard. Unfortunately his playstyle is for small forward.

At Combo guard, you need to be an elite scorer and consistent shooter. Unlike thirdy which playstyle is all around.

I agree Thirdy needs to be more consistent at shooting. but him developing a better shot shouldn't matter what position or role he is in or will be in. he needs it to be a better player.

 

[analyzed2]

I agree Thirdy needs to be more consistent at shooting. but him developing a better shot shouldn't matter what position or role he is in or will be in. he needs it to be a better player.

Thirdy is the least of Tab's problems, of the players who played in last February, Thirdy, his brother, Dwight and Troy are the players realistically envisioned or have the best chance of making the 2023 team

Yes I'm not sure CJ, Pogoy etc will make it (of course this isn't sure), but Thirdy despite what everyone says about his size and weakness actually is one of the more promising players of making 2023

 

[qwertyz2]

In an era described as positionless basketball, the lakers got involved in several transactions to ger a better point guard. That despite having lebron who likes to play point guard. People are putting Thirdy in with the assumption that he'll improve from these weaknesses we see, well, I hope he does but if we talk current Thirdy, who isnr that young anymore BTW, his skillsets are really that of a SF and his height is of an ideal world cup PG. You put him on in your "posutuinless" lineup and you'll be giving almost every world cup teams opportunities to milk on the mismatches. Folks, this "positionless basketball" confusion was brought by tall players who trained/likes to play outside instead of in the post, not by 6'2 players whose skills are that of a SF

May I ask on what situation Thirdy a mismatch in? Cause I dont see Thirdy as a mismatch in playmaking and definitely not as a defender. He is an able playmaker and you know that he can slash. Maybe his main weakness as of now is shooting. Just like the previous post about roles and skill sets of certain positions. Yes Thirdy is a defender, slasher and versatile being able to play 3 positions. But isnt he also a playmaker, able to bring the ball up, floor leader, rim protector and a scorer? Which is a “skill set” of other positions? If youre saying certain skill sets belong to only particular positions then thats not true especially in the type of basketball played today.