FIBA ASIA Cup Qualifiers

[Artek2]

Big difference with Qatar and Philippines situation, Qatar is an importer of migrants (85 % of residency population are foreigners), Philippines on the other hand is an exporter of migrant workers all over the world ( at least 10 million live overseas). Unfortunately for the Philippines the latter situation is more favorable for FIBA eligibility rules.

They don't necessarily have the advantage. While 85% of Qatar are migrant workers, it's way more impossible to be a citizen there and integrate unless they need you for your talent and grant you citizenship. They are not like the US, Australia, NZ, etc where you can migrate and integrate.

And from what I have heard, Qatar's naturalization is conditional and they can strip you off citizenship when they don't need you anymore​

If Qatar is really that open, they would have tapped into the Filipino diaspora over there.

 

[Artek2]

Pedantic, the word is still used in Singapore, Indonesia, Malaysia, who tf are you to say it's antiquated. Maghalo ka na lang ng semento, hindi puro Qatar at kung ano anong kagaguhan yung iniisip mo

It is antiquated. Malay is a specific ethnic group with specific culture and language (Melayu) with religion often in play

The more inclusive term is Austronesian-speaking peoples.

 

[Artek2]

Just in a basketball context, I personally don't believe that players should be considered locals if they have no ethnic roots in the country.

I disagree. A local should be described through residential and social factors to a place. Putting emphasis on "ethnic roots" is like saying only Ibalois should be considered the "locals" in Baguio. Nevermind the Ilocanos, Cantonese, Tagalogs who have been in the city for 3 generations.

Who do we also consider as "local Manile

 

[Artek2]

Spotted the self-hating Filipino.

Dude will probably have foam in his mouth if he discovered that the person who is considered to be the greatest Filipino baller is not "native" but of European descent - Caloy Loyzaga

 

[Artek2]

Why on a hell FIBA allow Harris and Lewis playing together? Harris was born in New York and no Qatari blood and Lewis was born in St. Louis.. This is mockery... Filipino fans should know this Qatar's mockery of rules

I think it is not good arguing this from a "blood" POV. It would be better if we argued from a "mercenary" POV. What they are doing to like "legal human trafficking".

 

[Artek2]

The average Filipino basketball fan is NBA-centric. But realistically, the gap between the best NBA players and top Eurro players is very small. Heck, the top 3 NBA players today are Euros: Jokic, Giannis, and Luka. The US had to send a hall-of-fame cast in this year's Olympics just to beat a French team with no point guards and a very talented but not yet prime Wemby. The US knows that if they don't send their very best, they are cooked. Kai is borderline NBA talent at least and he will be NBA caliber when he reaches his prime whether or not an NBA team signs him.

TBF, with the internet, more people are getting exposed to non-NBA international games. It used to be people only got either NBA or PBA because that is what was brought to the audience

 

[DAdmiral2]

They don't necessarily have the advantage. While 85% of Qatar are migrant workers, it's way more impossible to be a citizen there and integrate unless they need you for your talent and grant you citizenship. They are not like the US, Australia, NZ, etc where you can migrate and integrate.

And from what I have heard, Qatar's naturalization is conditional and they can strip you off citizenship when they don't need you anymore​

If Qatar is really that open, they would have tapped into the Filipino diaspora over there.

Specifically, though for foreign athlete's national team representation, Qatar does have a process for granting citizenship in volume. Qatar being a nation made up of imported workers and residents , while only a few are granted citizenship, the inflow of people inwards in a muticulutral society , does provide them advantages of picking the special gifted people to officially process their citizenship regardless of age ( can be before 16) to their national teams advantage

 

[DAdmiral2]

I disagree. A local should be described through residential and social factors to a place. Putting emphasis on "ethnic roots" is like saying only Ibalois should be considered the "locals" in Baguio. Nevermind the Ilocanos, Cantonese, Tagalogs who have been in the city for 3 generations.

Who do we also consider as "local Manile

I agree with your diagreement LOL , Emphasis on ethnicity or being a requirement , while it may seem sensible for a country like the Philippines of majority of it's population being of seemingly similar enthnicity , is really not realistic for many nations in the world , particularly those who's population are made up of mostly immigrants ( e.g. more than 50 % of Australia and NZ population are born overseas 1st or 2nd generation) .
Contrary to traditional thought there really is no country that exclusively grants citizenship either via blood or via residency , every nation actually uses a combination of both , but in varying degrees ( yes parental connection to a former citizen is one of the basis for granting citizenship in the US, Australia and NZ) and yes to a certain degree however very limited , the Philippines actually factors residency when they evaluate a foreigner for possible naturalisation. the point here is don't be so judgemental by assuming others nations are totally wrong in the citizenship laws . while the Philippines is morally right . differennt situation for diffierent enviornments

 

[Artek2]

I agree with your diagreement LOL , Emphasis on ethnicity or being a requirement , while it may seem sensible for a country like the Philippines of majority of it's population being of seemingly similar enthnicity , is really not realistic for many nations in the world , particularly those who's population are made up of mostly immigrants ( e.g. more than 50 % of Australia and NZ population are born overseas 1st or 2nd generation) .
Contrary to traditional thought there really is no country that exclusively grants citizenship either via blood or via residency , every nation actually uses a combination of both , but in varying degrees ( yes parental connection to a former citizen is one of the basis for granting citizenship in the US, Australia and NZ) and yes to a certain degree however very limited , the Philippines actually factors residency when they evaluate a foreigner for possible naturalisation. the point here is don't be so judgemental by assuming others nations are totally wrong in the citizenship laws . while the Philippines is morally right . differennt situation for diffierent enviornments

I don't understand why some Pinoys overly focus on "blood" when these same people will find it easier to relate to Sandara Park than Olivia Rodrigo. Ethnicity, as Filipinos understand it is "race", rather than culture.

Even our constitution does not care about ethnicity. It only cares if one of your parent is at least a PH citizen to pass on PH citizenship. Even if you are 100% Indian, if one of your parents was a PH citizen before you were born, you are as Filipino as the "Malay" (Austronesian). Let's also ditch the "Malay" centrism. It's not as if we're the first people to populate the Philippines. The Negrito groups were already here before our Austronesian ancestors decided to take the boat and sail to the archipelagos.

 

[DAdmiral2]

I don't understand why some Pinoys overly focus on "blood" when these same people will find it easier to relate to Sandara Park than Olivia Rodrigo. Ethnicity, as Filipinos understand it is "race", rather than culture.

Even our constitution does not care about ethnicity. It only cares if one of your parent is at least a PH citizen to pass on PH citizenship. Even if you are 100% Indian, if one of your parents was a PH citizen before you were born, you are as Filipino as the "Malay" (Austronesian). Let's also ditch the "Malay" centrism. It's not as if we're the first people to populate the Philippines. The Negrito groups were already here before our Austronesian ancestors decided to take the boat and sail to the archipelagos.

You're right, that is really misconception, it's really NOT ethnicity biological blood, but really more relationship connection supported by a document , when a person verifies he is connected to a citizen , the document verification is a birth certificate to a registered citizen of the country ( that citizen can be of Marsian or African enthnicity for all i care , does'nt matter) . The US team in ping Pong can be made up of purely Chinese ethnicity , but they are 100 % Amercian citizens.

 

[DAdmiral2]

for NZ i see their buildup in 2 stages , NZ based players up to Asia cup (due to availability issues) then after Asia cup is when they start insert players playing outside of Oceania. to me the upside of NZ is in Div 1 players 7 foot Julius , 6'11 forward Gold , Jones and NBA draftee Mojave King. to combine with Ili and Waandenberg. that's the core for 2027 WC push

 

[zairex2]

Whatever ills NZ they got to fix it as they had similar situation in last Feb window in Taiwan. They were only up by 5 pts after 3rd qrt even against a least talented Taiwanese without any Naturalized or African players

 

[DAdmiral2]

NZ in the 1st two windows last Feb and this window is far from where it is expected to be eventually, while it has identified some players who will be involved in the program towards the 2027 World cup push, most of the players in both windows with the exception of a few will NOT be part of the 2027 World cup team. Ili, (didn't play vs Gilas) Cameron, leAfa and Waandenberg are the only players likely to be in the 2027 WC team. . As part NZ practice in the Asia cup in July when Div 1 players are on break , is when they introduce new players who will be part of the program for the next Olympic cycle.

In the February window the following players played for TB ( almost all of them didn't play in this Novermber window ) gives you an indication of the state of their ever changing team ( no continuity at the moment )
Tobias Cameron (Taranaki Airs)
Max Darling (New Zealand Breakers)
Dan Fotu (New Zealand Breakers)
Julius Halaifonua (NBA Global Academy)
Tyrell Harrison (Brisbane Bullets)
Izayah Le’Afa (New Zealand Breakers)
Alex McNaught (New Zealand Breakers)
Jordan Ngatai (Tampereen Pyrinto)
Dion Prewster
Ethan Rusbatch (Franklin Bulls)
Sam Timmins (Sydney Kings)​

 

[Artek2]

Specifically, though for foreign athlete's national team representation, Qatar does have a process for granting citizenship in volume. Qatar being a nation made up of imported workers and residents , while only a few are granted citizenship, the inflow of people inwards in a muticulutral society , does provide them advantages of picking the special gifted people to officially process their citizenship regardless of age ( can be before 16) to their national teams advantage

What Qatar is doing is more of legalized trafficking than being truly a "migrant country". You can't be a citizen there unless they want you for their national teams

Qatar is not even picking talents from the pool of migrant workers. What they are doing is going abroad, usually to Africa, and convincing these minors who have never been to Qatar to be part of the national team. That is the problem with what Qatar is doing. Despite having a large Filipino and Indian migrant workers, they are not tapping into these local-born foreigners to represent Qatar.

FIBA needs to really close the loophole. Perhaps, require that at least 50% of the national team are local-born even if they are "only" naturalized.

 

[ARMIR2]

I don't understand why some Pinoys overly focus on "blood" when these same people will find it easier to relate to Sandara Park than Olivia Rodrigo. Ethnicity, as Filipinos understand it is "race", rather than culture.

Even our constitution does not care about ethnicity. It only cares if one of your parent is at least a PH citizen to pass on PH citizenship. Even if you are 100% Indian, if one of your parents was a PH citizen before you were born, you are as Filipino as the "Malay" (Austronesian). Let's also ditch the "Malay" centrism. It's not as if we're the first people to populate the Philippines. The Negrito groups were already here before our Austronesian ancestors decided to take the boat and sail to the archipelagos.

Filipinos are considered to be primarily Austronesian, with a significant portion of their ancestry tracing back to the Malay people, which are also part of the Austronesian ethnic group; meaning Filipinos are essentially classified as Austronesians with Malay ancestry being a major component of their heritage.​Our main ancestors came from Indonesia,whose prehistoric ancestor are part Austronesians.Filipinos only identifies with Austronesians thru DNA,but while not exclusively "Malay," Filipinos have a strong Malay influence in their culture and genetics due to the migration.

 

[empyreanmaze2]

Even our constitution does not care about ethnicity.

Pardon me for talking about a topic way beyond basketball but I'm pretty sure our constitution was based on the colonizers who were hoping to replace the native population in the archipelago just like they did in Mexico and the entirety of South America. Of course it doesn't care about ethnicity

 

[ARMIR2]

Pardon me for talking about a topic way beyond basketball but I'm pretty sure our constitution was based on the colonizers who were hoping to replace the native population in the archipelago just like they did in Mexico and the entirety of South America. Of course it doesn't care about ethnicity

Well in early Mexico,the Aztecs are considered as assholes of all the tribe in Mexico,so they banded with the Spaniards to topple them.In our case,we have many colonizers,from Spaniards,British,Dutch,Japanese,Americans,but they see something unique about the "Indios",that in the case of he Spaniards took some of the natives to colonize America.The fact that the native FIlipinos can easily adapt the language,and culture of the foreigners made the "colonizers' more at ease.

 

[empyreanmaze2]

Well in early Mexico,the Aztecs are considered as assholes of all the tribe in Mexico,so they banded with the Spaniards to topple them.In our case,we have many colonizers,from Spaniards,British,Dutch,Japanese,Americans,but they see something unique about the "Indios",that in the case of he Spaniards took some of the natives to colonize America.The fact that the native FIlipinos can easily adapt the language,and culture of the foreigners made the "colonizers' more at ease.

A tribe in a certain country is way off topic, that's not the point. The point is the basis of legibility in a colonial country especially the US vs a native one like the Philippines. People keep saying "ethnicity doesn't matter" but their actions say otherwise because gilas and even just the pro teams are tapping on players with pinoy 'blood' predominantly from the mother presupposing that the Philippines is a country for a 'native ethnicity' just like the East Asian ones. That's why I consider us using the malay word 'peranakan' instead of the spanish word 'mestizo' because it is more asian-centric than euro-centric, let's be honest, pinoys wouldn't call AJ Edu mestizo because he has no white blood, calling him peranakan would give some attention to his malay ancestry, he isn't an African mercenary, bro is as malay as many of us, would solve so many misconceptions.

 

[empyreanmaze2]

An extreme end of ethnic-based qualification bordering on ignorance is the one on KBL that doesn't consider a pinoy player with one foreign parent as a Filipino imo. The Spanish created identity for Filipinos is becoming a problem now that the country is probably more than 90% of varying asian ethnicities.

 

[DAdmiral2]

What Qatar is doing is more of legalized trafficking than being truly a "migrant country". You can't be a citizen there unless they want you for their national teams

Qatar is not even picking talents from the pool of migrant workers. What they are doing is going abroad, usually to Africa, and convincing these minors who have never been to Qatar to be part of the national team. That is the problem with what Qatar is doing. Despite having a large Filipino and Indian migrant workers, they are not tapping into these local-born foreigners to represent Qatar.

FIBA needs to really close the loophole. Perhaps, require that at least 50% of the national team are local-born even if they are "only" naturalized.

I kind of agree what Qatar is doing is dodgy with questionable values, (essentially buying players) but not violating FIBA rules and I agree there is always room for improving FIBA rules so as it rewards intended behaviour ( to develop within) . Generally though , while all rules aren't perfect and FIBA probably not close, FIBA eligibility rules are generally sound , the 15 years since it's existence (u16) , hasn't really seen anyone take advantage to the point where the world order of strong basketball nations is severely impacted . Still the nations that produce players generally are the more succesfull ones