FIBA Americas 2015 (Mexico)

[Steadysoul2]

Woke up to watch results and I'm literally shocked from what I saw How Canada managed to screw up this way is beyond me. Reminds me of FIFA World CUp 1954. When Hungary were huge favorites, beat Germans 8-3 in group like Canada did with Venezuela winning by 20, but the same like Canadians, managed to lose in final 2-3, after leading 2-0 in 8mins... Unbelievable stories. Also bad news whoever will get Canada from Fiba Americas part in OQT, especially if it'll be held in Canada. Congrats to Venezuela and Argentina for making Olympics!

Well it's all about strategy. Group play is about getting enough wins to advance.

 

[Jon_Koncak2]

I'm all for upsets and cinderella stories but let's be honest here.Canada got robbed big time .You just dont call such a soft foul off the ball at this occasion.If it was a eurobasket game with qualification to Rio on stakes there would be blood.Canadians were very stoic on their reactions all things considered.And yes Canada choked big time and have only themselves to blame for turning what should have been an easy win into a close game but still they didnt deserve to lose on such a call.

 

[Mindozas6]

Well it's all about strategy. Group play is about getting enough wins to advance.

Of course there're cases like that, but I don't think it was one of these. Under current format, every game is important, cause wins carries to next stage, to qualify is not enough, so I'm sure both did their best in group stage too and Canada was much better

 

[JGX2]

Can we start a thread for the best David vs Goliath matches in the history of international basketball, like right now?

This box score should be sufficient: http://www.fibaamericas.com/box.asp?g=B&n=4&r=7875&t=MQVYHCKTOL

 

[Hepcat2]

My nightmare scenario is for Canada to be nipped by one or two points in the semi after having rolled over its last seven opponents.

And so it transpired! But you know I wasn't even really afraid it could happen until well into the second half yesterday.

 

[Hepcat2]

The odds are pretty far in Canada's favor, but as we all know anything can happen in a single elimination game. Canada's first 5 are vastly outplaying their competition, so I expect Coach Triano to shorten the rotation a bit more and not take any chances by playing the back-ups for extended stretches. Guys like Brady Heslip are still a liability out there unless his shot is falling and draining 3s.

You know it proved just the opposite yesterday as the Venezuelans took four out of Canada's five high-priced starters right off their game. Coach Triano had to dig deeper and extend his bench to get any results on the floor. Look at the numbers of Canada's starters on the stat sheet for yesterday's game:

Stat Sheet

 

[Hepcat2]

The foul call was suspect, especially given how many calls were let go over the game, HOWEVER Canada shouldn't have been in that position to begin with. They were up by 7 with something like 3 minutes to go and just couldn't score. Canada really has no one to blame but themselves.

You are absolutely correct! Venezuela succeeded in slowing the pace of the game right down and taking Canada right out of the fast paced transition game the Canadian team had been playing. The Venezuelan team imposed its will on Canada's NBA stars and forced Canada to play a half court game to which it just wasn't well suited. And Coach Triano just couldn't find an answer. He was quite simply outcoached by his Venezuelan counterpart.

Here Leo Rautins succinctly explains what happened:

Rautins on Canada-Venezuela

 

[Hepcat2]

Jamal Murray should help out a lot, better than having a Scrubb as backup PG.

Are you out of your cotton picking mind? Look at the stats from yesterday's game:

Canada-Venezuela Stats

While Phil Scrubbs didn't exactly star yesterday in the first game where anything was on the line, high priced NBA star Cory Joseph delivered even less! Scrubbs had an efficiency number of 7 in just less than 20 minutes, while Joseph had a number of only 5 in just over 21 minutes.

 

[ncjazz2]

Are you out of your cotton picking mind? Look at the stats from yesterday's game:

Canada-Venezuela Stats

While Phil Scrubbs didn't exactly star yesterday in the first game where anything was on the line, high priced NBA star Cory Joseph delivered even less! Scrubbs had an efficiency number of 7 in just less than 20 minutes, while Joseph had a number of only 5 in just over 21 minutes.

You apparently did not watch the one Pan Am game where Murray went wild and also must not realize that he is a big time NBA prospect.

 

[Hepcat2]

Excuse me but the reason Team Canada lost yesterday was not due to a lack of NBA hotshots. It was due to not being able to play FIBA ball when the chips were down.

 

[Terrorizer2]

Excuse me but the reason Team Canada lost yesterday was not due to a lack of NBA hotshots. It was due to not being able to play FIBA ball when the chips were down.

I rarely agree with you but here you've nailed it. In FIBA basketball it doesn't work like a team with bigger percentage of legit NBAers (or big time NBA prospects) would win against a team which severely lacks those players. Even on a different level it's quite obvious. Many teams from Western Africa (Nigeria, Cote d'Ivoire, Senegal, Cameroon and so on) have enough of players with solid NCAA pedigrees and top-level European (or even NBA) experience yet Angola always finds its way into AfroBasket finals due to supreme organization, solid coaching and better team chemistry on- and off-court.

By the way, Scrubb is definitely a good fit for international style and in this very tournament he was really some sort of unsung hero for Canada.

Well, at least, Canada was able to win one thriller out of three in this tournament. Not that Cory Joseph's buzzer-beater really mattered but still, as they say, bronze medal is better than no medal.

 

[Steadysoul2]

I rarely agree with you but here you've nailed it. In FIBA basketball it doesn't work like a team with bigger percentage of legit NBAers (or big time NBA prospects) would win against a team which severely lacks those players. Even on a different level it's quite obvious. Many teams from Western Africa (Nigeria, Cote d'Ivoire, Senegal, Cameroon and so on) have enough of players with solid NCAA pedigrees and top-level European (or even NBA) experience yet Angola always finds its way into AfroBasket finals due to supreme organization, solid coaching and better team chemistry on- and off-court.

By the way, Scrubb is definitely a good fit for international style and in this very tournament he was really some sort of unsung hero for Canada.

Well, at least, Canada was able to win one thriller out of three in this tournament. Not that Cory Joseph's buzzer-beater really mattered but still, as they say, bronze medal is better than no medal.

Too be fair Nigeria use to have mostly players direct form there. 2012 they scrapped the entire team save two or three players and went after players with NCAA experience.

 

[MZT Skopje2]

Venezuela won the americas. But this is a big suprise to me. Venezuela did not look good against Macedonia 3 weeks ago, as they lost against us.

 

[Hepcat2]

My full congratulations to Team Venezuela! Among nobody's favourites heading into the Tournament, they didn't show their full stuff until the playoffs when it really counted. Both Canada and Argentina were then very much surprised by the additional elements the Venezuelans had introduced to their game plans since the group stage. Very well done indeed!

 

[JGX2]

Venezuela won the americas. But this is a big suprise to me. Venezuela did not look good against Macedonia 3 weeks ago, as they lost against us.

They didn't look good all summer, until the last few games--but those were the games that mattered. I wouldn't expect much from them at the Olympics though.

I don't know what to expect from Canada in the future. They are deep in pretty good players, but no real top-level players and quite likely no one who will become one. They might just end up as a poor man's France. On the other hand, they are fortunate to have their players entering their prime at a time when most of the top non-US teams are in decline. The new qualifying system is going to be difficult for them.

 

[Steadysoul2]

They didn't look good all summer, until the last few games--but those were the games that mattered. I wouldn't expect much from them at the Olympics though.

I don't know what to expect from Canada in the future. They are deep in pretty good players, but no real top-level players and quite likely no one who will become one. They might just end up as a poor man's France. On the other hand, they are fortunate to have their players entering their prime at a time when most of the top non-US teams are in decline. The new qualifying system is going to be difficult for them.

Outside of Wiggins its mostly role players. Canada was severely overhyped the last few years and it's not all their fault. A variety of people were ready to crown them the next big thing in FIBA without any real evidence to support it. Will they play in more big events? probably. Will they manage to medal in them? not likely.
But I think again this proves a point that I've been making for years, going all out in every game is a waste. You play close games but you don't go all out for a game in group play that you don't need to advance.

 

[mojo132]

Outside of Wiggins its mostly role players. Canada was severely overhyped the last few years and it's not all their fault. A variety of people were ready to crown them the next big thing in FIBA without any real evidence to support it. Will they play in more big events? probably. Will they manage to medal in them? not likely.
But I think again this proves a point that I've been making for years, going all out in every game is a waste. You play close games but you don't go all out for a game in group play that you don't need to advance.

Canada went 16-3 for the summer and routinely beat their opponents by 20plus points. The average age of this team is 23. As we see, with youth and inexperience comes the good and the bad.

I watched every single game they played this summer and the game against Venezuela was horrific to watch. Everyone to the man played about as bad as I saw all summer. It all came together at once. Yet they still had many opportunities to blow the game open. However their self inflicted incompetence, dodgy reffing and tremendous luck by their opponent kept the game close to the final shot. That allowed them to be victimized by the ever present Latin American corruption that permeates these third world countries in every aspect, and most sadly sports. If it is close enough, we all know a call like that it's likely to happen. Regardless it was Canada's implosion that put them in that position - poor coaching by Canada and one of their best players hospitalized by food poisoning didn't help. As I said, everything that could go wrong went wrong. As can happen in a single elimination game.

This is still a very, very good team that I think right now can beat anyone outside of the World's three or so elite countries. And they will get better and better.

European teams should be wary in the the pre Olympic qualifiers. I wouldn't want to be in Canada's pool if I was you.

 

[Hepcat2]

...Canada and one of their best players hospitalized by food poisoning didn't help.

Who was actually hospitalized, when and for how long?

 

[mojo132]

Who was actually hospitalized, when and for how long?

Nik Stauskas was hospitalized for food poisoning the entire day before.
Thus he played very few minutes in that game. We couldn't figure out why the heck Triano was not playing him.
Still don't understand why Wiggins sat for a big portion of the second half.

 

[mojo132]

Nik Stauskas was hospitalized for food poisoning the entire day before.
Thus he played very few minutes in that game. We couldn't figure out why the heck Triano was not playing him.
Still don't understand why Wiggins sat for a big portion of the second half.

Supposedly Anthony Bennett had food poisoning as well. What the hell? I thought it was an unwritten fiba Americas rules that you don't eat the local food the final week of competition!