• Since we moved our URL please clear your browsers history and cookies and try logging in again. Thank you and sorry for any inconvenience
  • Since we moved our URL please clear your browsers history and cookies and try logging in again. Thank you and sorry for any inconvenience

Evaluation of multiple hosts model in Eurobasket 2015

  • Thread starter Thread starter Victorious2
  • Start date Start date
V

Victorious2

Guest
For the first time in history the Eurobasket took place in 4 different countries. The primary phase is over and it is time to evaluate this model.
I personally think that this should be the model in coming Eurobaskets. One group per country resulted to filled arena's for the organizing countries. That means that every day at least four games attracted a lot of fans which is good for the organization. Also, organizing the Eurobasket in different countries gives the opportunity for countries like Estonia or Croatia to organize this event, whereas organizing the whole tournament would be less of an option for them.

Using this model, also countries like the Netherlands, Finland, Belgium will have the opportunity to host the event and promote the game. Since they have the necessary accommodations (arena's) to organize one group.
 
the strange practice of picking opponents for host country should stop though. The groups were like the geographical qualification tournament for the actual Eurobasket. Balkan group, Baltic group, etc. with an intention of increasing visitor spectator numbers probably, but I personally would prefer more diverse competition.
 
I like the idea of several countries hosting and make the game more popular but I think the whole thing was a mess in several areas

- Influencing the Group Draw. That is just a disaster, in order to fill arenas to let hosts fill their group. There is no sport motive for that, and it ruins to competition as we have seen. Also I don't think that hosts should be the group carriers (the fact that they get a free ticket to Eurobasket should be enough), but rather that a hat system based on rankings coefficient should be used.

- After the group phase is completed all the teams have to converge to a new place, (well except the teams that played in the group which are in the country that is hosting the Knockout Stage). The teams were given a notice by FIBA that after the last group game (last night), they will board charters for Lille at 1AM or 2AM. This is so unprofessional and retarded. Athletes have a strict regiment and that is the time for rest and for sleeping, not fucking boarding charters and loosing sleep. You can read more about in the media, it's a disgrace. Teams that will play their 1/8 matches on Sunday might even have time to adapt a bit more, but teams playing on Saturday will lose sleep on Thursday/Friday and then have to practice on Friday and prepare for early Saturday games. That's a disgrace and logistics nightmare.

- Different countries hosting implies that there will at least be coordination, common control in terms of marketing, promoting, selling tickets etc but in reality it's just bullshit as we have seen. For example the Baltic group and Berlin group did an excellent job. Baltic Group had a lot of neighbors that are passionate and reached the games easy. Berlin group had a lot of passion in the arena because of pure quality and large expat communities of Serbs and Turks in Germany. French group was just meeeh, neither here nor there, lacking in many ways. Zagreb Group was a total disaster, awfully promoted, absent of passion (I would never let them host shit in FIBA again after this display). This shows that FIBA did a crappy job since they needed to coordinate and control that whole Eurobasket is promoted well, otherwise there is no point.
 
For the first time in history the Eurobasket took place in 4 different countries. The primary phase is over and it is time to evaluate this model.
I personally think that this should be the model in coming Eurobaskets. One group per country resulted to filled arena's for the organizing countries. That means that every day at least four games attracted a lot of fans which is good for the organization. Also, organizing the Eurobasket in different countries gives the opportunity for countries like Estonia or Croatia to organize this event, whereas organizing the whole tournament would be less of an option for them.

Using this model, also countries like the Netherlands, Finland, Belgium will have the opportunity to host the event and promote the game. Since they have the necessary accommodations (arena's) to organize one group.

I totally agree with you. A lot of countries in Europe have economical crysis and can't afford that kind of organizations alone. If you want to have this organization alone, you must have at least 4 big and modern arenas in different cities. It is almost impossible for small basketball countries. Some countries like Belgium, Finland, Netherland where basketball is developing, will have a chance to host it without spending too much and it will help their fan's interest in basketball. For example, in 2001 I was playing in an U16 amateur league team and our team had a basketball school. There were a few young children in basketball school before 2001 European Basketball Championship in Turkey. After Eurobasket 2001 everyone wanted to play basketball and there were no space left in our basketball school even if an amateur team. Just a tournament changed a lot of fan's mind about basketball. I hope it will be same for many Europe countries and basketball will develop.
 
Macedonia-Bulgaria and Serbia wos supposed to make a bid for Eurobasket 2017. Donu what happened with the bid.

Groups in Skopje-Sofia and Belgrade. Knock out in Sofia-Beograd. Finale in Belgrade.
 
The group phase taking place in different countries is really awesome and should be continued in the future. I agree that picking an opponent lead to problems ... especially for Germany. ;)
Maybe the picking system has to be optimized.

Having the group phase spread around Europe increases the probability for fans to have a group located nearby and to go and see some games live.
 
I believe the best should qualify and thus so 1 team should host whole competition. I sincerely hope this system is just this year due to unfortunate circumstances.
 
I believe the best should qualify

I agree with this. I think that it should be solved that federations tells before qualifications are they ready to host one group. After qualifications Fiba choose those 4 host countries. One year should be enough to make it happen. This 4 host system is very good and should be remaining in future too. I can't imagine what kind of boost it would create for in Finland if one of group stages takes place in Helsinki. Only problem for fans is that Finland is expensive compared to most of other countries. Other wise, there not many countries who are known for better organisation abilities.
 
The group phase taking place in different countries is really awesome and should be continued in the future. I agree that picking an opponent lead to problems ... especially for Germany. ;)
Maybe the picking system has to be optimized.

Having the group phase spread around Europe increases the probability for fans to have a group located nearby and to go and see some games live.

Think this model is good. Full arena when host plays and the more host the more spectators. Basketballs fans do not travel as much as in football so is better to bring it home to them.

Here are the candidates. for 2017 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA_EuroBasket_2017

think that MKD-BUL-SRB are the favourite to get is, by far the best bid.
 
will you miss eurobaskets every 2 years? i will. 4 years period is such a looong time to wait :(
 
will you miss eurobaskets every 2 years? i will. 4 years period is such a looong time to wait :(

Hell yes! The system now is great for a fan, a big competition every year in a 4 year cycle you have Olympics, WC and 2 EB. This is perfect for NT in terms of development of team, playing together and keeping continuity. The only thing I agree about with the change is that it burdens players after long seasons too much. Might lower NBA cancellations a lot, since now imagine NBA player playing 82 games + playoffs then leaving for a 1-2month prep period with NT and playing a month long competition with NT every summer/fall.
 
You guys already meantioned a few things.

+bigger attendance in games
+more countries included
+more countries having a chance at hosting the eurobasket
-group fixing
-lack of centralised organisation

I have nothing against such model and changed my mind regarding numerous things that bothered me with it. However that's due to the fact I don't expect Fiba to be ambitious enough to make a noticably better model out of it.

Good steps within the last few years.
1. Expanding from 16 to 24 teams. Best thing that happened out there, 17th -24th team, if they don't proove to be very competitive as well, some of them at least have their share of moments, I loved Iceland, Netherlands, Belgium this tournament for example and I am sure this expansion will help basketball grow tremendously in those untill now opressed countries. Also it decreases the chance of some NT being caught on the wrong foot and missing eurobasket alltogether as It used to be the case with Italy for example.
2. Selling individual tickets instead of group ones since 2013, increases the attendance as well as possibility for foreign tourists, as f.e. 10.000 French buying the "whole day tickets" means less of tickets will be available for other games that day, less foreign fans will be able to travel and eventhough some fans might stay to see another game the economical aspects of that system were deprimental to individual tickets (price, number wise, no. of foreign fans etc.)
3. This one is a big questionmark. Fiba got themselves advisors from Uefa which decided to go for a qualification system with time-windows, we're yet to see the effects of this when it's implemented. It's definately not in favour of the clubs, yet I'm neglecting the club and NBA issue at this point as not having your own NT play some meaningfull games at home during the year is deprimental for the sport. Whole bunch of issues arise from such model, however they're at least trying to adress some visible shortcomings - don't jump on me for this one, but trying to change something is what I consider positive in this regard, haven't yet made my mind about the "solution".

However, succes is also a matter of ambition. And FibaE should encourage ambition there.


1. Hosting a 1st stage group of eurobasket is not a big deal. Organisationaly, financialy or infrastructuraly wise. By making this model a default, don't underestimate the effect of federations not being forced to take their operations to the higher level. Affording or not affording organising such event is a flattering talk most federations prefer as they don't feel capable organising the whole thing, while organising one group works with less than 1/4 of the effort needed for the whole championship. That will inevitably show through marketing (unless fully centralised by Fiba, which would again drive it towards being less efficient) and decreasing the importance of the tournament, from making it a big deal aka biggest sportive event in that country that year, from merely hosting a group stage. Co-hosting with 2 countries should be an option for any smaller country out there, I don't think building a 2 5000+ arenas (preferably a bit more than just that) is something too much to expect from any country that wishes to portray themselves as a bball country for that period.
2. Net gains were positive for both Lithuania and Slovenia in 2011 and 2013 both with room for improvement, meaning it's not a matter of finances, but mere organisation and getting a nation-wide concensus for hosting the whole tournament. The latter inevitably shows through the tournament as whole armada of various tourist, goverment, sport, media institutions have to work together and put in some effort (!) to make it work.
3. Knowing the host for 4 years in advance is neccesary to make all the arangements and to leave out all the possibilities of "we lacked time" kind of excuses and so on. Also Fiba must ensure that the financial structures of the tournament or potential new capacities are already closed or guaranteed up to some degree. When Slovenia got the eurobasket, Koper was supposed to build an 8000 arena, I'll leave the petty local bureaucracy details, of course they didn't build it, eurobasket being played in 4000 capacity arena instead. Those kinds of venues shouldn't be tolerated as Fiba's standards. That 8000 seater could easily be filled with more Finns, Italians and Greeks as the demand for the tickets was far greater than the capacity.
4. Attendance wise, this co-hosting did proove to be a good thing, however letting a country to choose one participant is unsportive, especialy since by choosing 1 country you can significantly influence chances for having 1 or even 2 more in the group due to the pot system. Without that ability we might as well return to the old numbers in regard to attendance.
5. The biggest issue here is the timeline of the tournament. Needless to say most people are expected to be back at work in september, those also hold the biggest purchase power there, what's left are exemptions, students, retired people etc. narrowing down the potential base of fans that would come to support their team abroad significantly. 15k Slovenians in Zagreb would definately be no illusion there. Moving the start date to the last week in august, would increase attendance to the extent that I don't care if whole club system has to switch to starting the leagues one week earlier. Preparation stages are getting ridiciously prolongued anyway and won't suffer from one week less. That also eliminates the issue with the under-attended 15.00 games for both local bball fans or fans from neighbouring country. A simple MUST by my opinion, no matter the adjustments there will be needed.
6. 4 games played at the same time equals a loss of opurtunity income at some point. FibaE is worried by increased costs by prolonguing the tournament, however loosing money due to it as well. And with 4 countries co-hosting that won't likely change as the interests to keep the actual costs as low as possible being one of the driving forces, will prevail in front of potential income.
This way there is less time to create some additional content by the media and the later is of lower quality, overall broadcast time is decreased and many TVs only focus on covering their own NT, without trying to make the best ouf of the whole package they actually paid for. I'm leaving aside the effect on playing level, economical aspects are a bigger issue. Make every team play every second day and encourage broadcasters to make the best of it.
7.Make the selection process transparent and screw the delegates, I know that won't happen but at least decrease their weight in the final decision. Corruption, returning the favours or as in some previous cases dissbelief they've got chances is turning countries away from candidating. The most ambitious candidate should get the eurobasket.
8. And the last point, we're talking of a spiral catch here. 4 votes are always more than 1 vote, a lot of less competent, less profesional, not as ambitious federations will consider applying for an eurobasket group solely to please their countrymen and get some media attention and that can become easily misinterpreted as them doing some enormously heavy work out there.
Selection process for those 4 co-hosts is also dubious as in case we want to spread the eurobasket representation fairly, that won't come out of trying to join the biggest and most likely to be selected federations out there. Imagine that Spain and Turkey would be interested in co-hosting one of the groups for the next eurobasket, whoever joins is in and anyone else potentialy interested will realise fast enough they've got no chance and won't bother with it anymore. That significantly decreases the potential ambitions and kills the competition.
One more case. Turkey is reportedly interested in hosting the next eurobasket by themselves. They could easily be out-voted by a coalition of 4 countries, just because there are 4 of them and their neighbouring countries will prefer voting for them, regardless of the level of arenas, organisation, accomodations Turkey or that group of candidates would provide.


As I said, I have nothing against this kind of system untill some kinds of further solutions are applied, however that's not the optimal long term solution from various aspects and we could be trapped in it for eternity. The beauty of the democracy :)
 
Only bad thing with this is that hosts gett advantage of home court. As exempel MKD might be a top16 contender 2017 only cuz of home court.

And would Latvia beat Belgium on neutral venue ? No !!!.
 
One more thing.
If we are already ready to disregard the potential infrastructural gains, organisational improvements, competitiveness as far as organising eurobasket goes and so on and the main aim should be best attendance out there possible, there is an unorthodox model that actualy works better than the hybrids. Even if costlier, financial gains would double or triple at the very least.

Make eurobasket a home-away thing.
Monday home game vs. Italy
Tuesday travel
Wednesday away game vs. Italy
Thursday travel
Friday day off
Saturday home game against Lithuania
Sunday travel
Monday away game against Lithuania
Thesday travel
Wednesday, day off
Thursday away game against xy
and so on

4 teams in the group makes for 6 games and 15 days or within a thought out system less than that (f.e. Home-Away-A-H-H-A, nothing mathematicians can't handle to find an optimum) and continue the same scheme into the playoffs.
-lot's of travel and charter flights, therefor costs
-eurobasket being completely decentralised
-new infrastructural gains from eurobasket are unlikely
-no more traveling abroad for eurobasket with the best and most devoted fans out there
-longer duration of eurobasket
+sell out crowd each and every time there is a game
+noticably higher revenue for every single federation out there, I know in Slovenia's case that could easily mean 150-200k € per every home game.
+every federation able to market their appearance by themselves as they depend on it
+more TV money accordingly (longer duration, bigger attendance, increased local sponsor involvement)
+more people get to see their NT on a meaningfull games and Fiba's new time-windows wouldn't be all that neccesary

I know it's far fetched, but I am ussualy not in favour of the hybrid models, because there is always something missing with those.
 
Joško Poljak Fan;1000347 said:
One more thing.
If we are already ready to disregard the potential infrastructural gains, organisational improvements, competitiveness as far as organising eurobasket goes and so on and the main aim should be best attendance out there possible, there is an unorthodox model that actualy works better than the hybrids. Even if costlier, financial gains would double or triple at the very least.

Make eurobasket a home-away thing.
Monday home game vs. Italy
Tuesday travel
Wednesday away game vs. Italy
Thursday travel
Friday day off
Saturday home game against Lithuania
Sunday travel
Monday away game against Lithuania
Thesday travel
Wednesday, day off
Thursday away game against xy
and so on

4 teams in the group makes for 6 games and 15 days or within a thought out system less than that (f.e. Home-Away-A-H-H-A, nothing mathematicians can't handle to find an optimum) and continue the same scheme into the playoffs.
-lot's of travel and charter flights, therefor costs
-eurobasket being completely decentralised
-new infrastructural gains from eurobasket are unlikely
-no more traveling abroad for eurobasket with the best and most devoted fans out there
-longer duration of eurobasket
+sell out crowd each and every time there is a game
+noticably higher revenue for every single federation out there, I know in Slovenia's case that could easily mean 150-200k € per every home game.
+every federation able to market their appearance by themselves as they depend on it
+more TV money accordingly (longer duration, bigger attendance, increased local sponsor involvement)
+more people get to see their NT on a meaningfull games and Fiba's new time-windows wouldn't be all that neccesary

I know it's far fetched, but I am ussualy not in favour of the hybrid models, because there is always something missing with those.

Even though I agree with most of things said, it just creates a huge potential for corruption, manipulation etc (refs, home court advantage and atmosphere). Also it kind of loses the feeling of a unified competition. The teams need to feel that they are a part of one tournament, and have their heads clear of all this other stuff. I think that one of the better ways to popularize basketball in countries who are not as developed in basketball is to offer incentives by FIBA through youth programs. It is very far fetched and extremely difficult for Portugal for example to create a senior team that will be a medal competitor. That is not necessarily the case in youth competitions. FIBA should approach undeveloped bball countries and offer incentives to improve their youth programs through grants for infrastructure, coaching exchange, clinics and knowledge transfer and developing youth setups. Then give more money incentives in Youth Competitions to countries that achieve results, and prefer those countries to host them.

That would make them competitive in the long run. Also once an undeveloped country in bball gets one or two players playing at high level as seniors at top european flight or NBA then the things start rolling back and it picks up momentum. Business interest will grow too, youth setups and academies will grow etc. An obvious example of this effect is tennis in Serbia, which was basically a No. 15 sport or worse before emergence of Djokovic, Ivanovic, Jankovic. Also it was a sport for the privileged. If you take a look all over Serbia now it is a No. 3 sport in terms of youth playing it (Football, Basketball then Tennis). In the city where I am living (Nis), in the last 10 years we have about 7-8 tennis academies start up and working with youth. It can be done with basketball as well, just the right approach is needed.
 
I agree, there are pluses and minuses with that system, however I don't believe that focusing on multiple aspects are neccesarily as succesfull, and FibaE should focus in their strategy either maximizing the attendance or maximizing the benefits for the country that organises the eurobasket and it's benefit's + progress. 4 co-hosts is kind of a hybrid, middle way, it can work, it does have some good sides, but if attendance is the decisive factor it's not as effective as what I've proposed above

Wholefully agree on the promoting better work in youth systems. Actualy we're behind that as majority of non-traditional bball countries actualy gets more from NCAA system than from european ones. However to fully implement that, you also need a good club hierarchy and de-centralised investment in basketball, which isn't that easy to achieve. Eventualy it all comes down to funding as raising good talent that later at 18, 19 won't be playing bball profesionaly doesn't neccesarily work as intended, unless of course they move to NCAA and a lot of those don't.
 
According to Lithuanian coaches organisation in Lille is horrific so far. Training schedule, hostels, food. Probably France just doesn't have any experience at his point? It's not basketball country whatsoever. Other teams surprised as well...
 
According to Lithuanian coaches organisation in Lille is horrific so far. Training schedule, hostels, food. Probably France just doesn't have any experience at his point? It's not basketball country whatsoever. Other teams surprised as well...

really funny because Djordjevic said that organisation in Lille is on really high level and it couldnt be better than this,but whatever Serbian NT isnt on that high level so they dont expect that kind of treatment like Lithuanians and others
 
really funny because Djordjevic said that organisation in Lille is on really high level and it couldnt be better than this,but whatever Serbian NT isnt on that high level so they dont expect that kind of treatment like Lithuanians and others

So Djordjevic was polite and politically correct, the hell I will do with that?:) Maybe Serbians love to eat in the streets and to prepare for the games in the yard, I don't mind. Diogen lived in barrel and people still quote him, I see your point here! As long as Italians and Georgians provides good wine, I wouldn't disagree!
 
Back
Top