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European Prospects General Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Straight forward2
  • Start date Start date
Finland has another big prospect - Miikka Muurinen​. 6'9 can shoot the lights out, flexible, can create a bit for himself. Markkanen is 10 years older, but they may have couple of strong tournaments together. They also have good PG prospect Miro Little. So these 3 one day can caree Finland at the very high level:

https://twitter.com/MaxFeldman6/status/1710437615957082360
 
Hugo Gonzalez became MVP of ANGT Podgorica, and he's really good off course, No.1 2006 Euro prospect, but I expected more in terms of efficiency. 17.5eff pretty meh, shot the threes poorly. But nevertheless great 2 way prospect. Didn't play overly long 23.5mpg, but could unleash the hell more surely. Hugo was even better last year in ANGT with 20eff.

I expect from Jakucionis in terms of domination in Belgrade, starting with March 1.

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I think it's safe to say that 2024 NBA draft will be one of the best for European players. Topic, Buzelis, Sarr, Risacher​ are all huge pieces, often ending up together in top 5 and always in top 10 projections.

Also Almansa, Tidjane Salaun, Aday Mara, Adem Bona, Baba Miller (legitimate chances) and Nunez, Rubstavicius, Durisic (solid chances) to be drafted and some others.
 
Interesting article on the best European prospects under 20 ATM. The author is legit, he's not a dummy at all. Nevertheless it's always a matter of choice, some players could be in, some players could be out. It's crazy that 7 of these players are French guys and all of them can be good. All deserves to here I think. So France has really choking amount of talent, NBA talent. But they don't have a single pure guard. Hayes busting out (and he was nearly a prodigy I would say as a young player, IDK what happened, he became slower, less crafty and hesitant, who's to blame?). Then Spain has 3 players.

From my personal point of view, I can say that Jakucionis is better than Sarr with whom he plays for U18 Barca. Flat out better, it's not even a competition. So he had to be there - no question. Jakucionis is absolute stand out, close to Topic. I even argue that Jakucionis is better than Nunez overall, who I really respect, his passing is more than elite, but Jakucionis has better motor, way more talented shooter and scorer and better defender. Nunez exceeds at passing and creation, but else where Jakucionis is better. OK, Nunez had to be in, but Italian Dame Sarr doesn't deserve it. But it's OK, cause it's obviously an attempt to include more nations in into the pallet. If he would name 7 French guys, 4 Spaniards, 4 Lithuanians, 4 Serbians it wouldn't be exactly fun. The same author today will release the article in which he claims that Jakucionis is the first round material of 2025 NBA draft.

Other guys who could be in - Krivas. ESPN projects him as top 15 of 2025 NBA draft.

Overall, the talent is going over the board. Wemby, Buzelis, Caulibaly, Sarr, Risacher, Salaun, Topic can be special and have NBA star's upsides. This could be one of the best under 20 lists ever.

https://www.fiba.basketball/eurobas...0-under-20-who-are-the-rising-stars-of-europe

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Straight forward said:
Interesting article on the best European prospects under 20 ATM. The author is legit, he's not a dummy at all. Nevertheless it's always a matter of choice, some players could be in, some players could be out. It's crazy that 7 of these players are French guys and all of them can be good. All deserves to here I think. So France has really choking amount of talent, NBA talent. But they don't have a single pure guard. Hayes busting out (and he was nearly a prodigy I would say as a young player, IDK what happened, he became slower, less crafty and hesitant, who's to blame?). Then Spain has 3 players.

From my personal point of view, I can say that Jakucionis is better than Sarr with whom he plays for U18 Barca. Flat out better, it's not even a competition. So he had to be there - no question. Jakucionis is absolute stand out, close to Topic. I even argue that Jakucionis is better than Nunez overall, who I really respect, his passing is more than elite, but Jakucionis has better motor, way more talented shooter and scorer and better defender. Nunez exceeds at passing and creation, but else where Jakucionis is better. OK, Nunez had to be in, but Italian Dame Sarr doesn't deserve it. But it's OK, cause it's obviously an attempt to include more nations in into the pallet. If he would name 7 French guys, 4 Spaniards, 4 Lithuanians, 4 Serbians it wouldn't be exactly fun. The same author today will release the article in which he claims that Jakucionis is the first round material of 2025 NBA draft.

Other guys who could be in - Krivas. ESPN projects him as top 15 of 2025 NBA draft.

Overall, the talent is going over the board. Wemby, Buzelis, Caulibaly, Sarr, Risacher, Salaun, Topic can be special and have NBA star's upsides. This could be one of the best under 20 lists ever.

https://www.fiba.basketball/eurobas...0-under-20-who-are-the-rising-stars-of-europe

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Nunez right now is the most ready young Euro point guard. Topic has had great season until injury, but Nunez is playing at even higher level, won title with Ulm last season and was very good in Eurocup this season. Jakucionis has yet to play any meaningful minutes at senior level, he has no business competing with Nunez. We will see in upcoming years but right now it's not even close.
 
Serbian_Layup said:
Nunez right now is the most ready young Euro point guard. Topic has had great season until injury, but Nunez is playing at even higher level, won title with Ulm last season and was very good in Eurocup this season. Jakucionis has yet to play any meaningful minutes at senior level, he has no business competing with Nunez. We will see in upcoming years but right now it's not even close.
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Yeah, but I think those names were taken in terms of their upside. The same Italian Sarr has been playing worse than Jakucionis for a while now and the author of this article agreed on that. Nunez is really good, I don't question that.
 
https://www.noceilingsnba.com/p/2024-nba-draft-big-board-v6

Topic has been out for three months and he is stil very high on many draft boards, usually in top 5. This is weaker draft class, so there is a good chance that he remains in top 5. That will probably depend on his performance in the last months of the season as he should be back on the court in the next few days. Again, lots of Euro talents in this draft with good chances to be lottery picks.
 
15 French, 6 Spanish, 3 Serbian, 3 Lithuanians, 3 Dutch, 2 Swedish and other Europeans remain in the draft.

That pretty much sums it up how prospect power goes in Europe. France is ultimate NBA talent farm in Europe. I think we are quite lucky that their transition to NT is super crappy. Much like Canada's, but even worse.

F.e. Lithuania never failed to integrate a single NBA, or even NBA borderline player ever (except against it's own will in Ilgauskas case). So far we have been utilizing NBA talent 100% basically. I bet in France case it's 10-15% if even so. That probably shows a high % of French talents busting out too.

Anyway, this year with Sarr, Risacher and Salaun all being top 8 most likely and first 2 top 5. Combine that with last year's top pick Wemby and Coulibaly at 7# (I think all 5 players can be really good) and we have a potentially legitimate punch this time. This explosion of real talent will reflect NT this time I think.

Teams like Serbia, Spain and recently Lithuania produce pretty consistent amount of NBA or NBA borderline material.

Almansa withdraws this year. Nunez in. Those are 2 important pieces for Spain heading forward.

Lithuania with a good stretch recently - Brazdeikis, Sirvydis, Jokubaitis as drafted players already impact NT and the next even more important push will be Rubstavicius, Buzelis, Jakucionis, Krivas. Last three should be first rounders and true NBA material likely if not all 4, which would be big push for LTU BB.



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The most french prospects are overrated. They have Risacher as the number 1 pick in the Draft, the kid can't even dribble the ball. Sarr is the certain bust, there is nothing in his game that screams special, he's another Petro. Quantity doesn't always mean quality. They had so many players drafted in the past 5,6 years none of them made any difference in the NBA beside Wembanyama. And even when they go back to France they stay average. NBA clubs are very bad in terms of evaluating NBA talent internationally, and they are relying heavily on the frauds from ESPN, ex Draftexpress personnel. Also Spain is dominant in the youth competitions but they don't produce special players at the senior level anymore, they are naturalizing American players to represent their country . The part of that is that there is no place for them in their best clubs, those clubs who are competing in Euroleague. Still that shouldn't be the big problem for them because they have the strongest national league in Europe but something is obviously wrong with their program. Also in their youth selections there are lots of physically and athletically matured players that representing them, many of them are from African descent . They are too dominant physically in the youth competitions but they can't translate their games at the senior level. Germany is more impressive than those two countries, in terms of producing quality players who are elevating their NT .
 
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Srle said:
The most french prospects are overrated. They have Risacher as the number 1 pick in the Draft, the kid can't even dribble the ball. Sarr is the certain bust, there is nothing in his game that screams special, he's another Petro. Quantity doesn't always mean quality. They had so many players drafted in the past 5,6 years none of them made any difference in the NBA beside Wembanyama. And even when they go back to France they stay average. NBA clubs are very bad in terms of evaluating NBA talent internationally, and they are relying heavily on the frauds from ESPN, ex Draftexpress personnel. Also Spain is dominant in the youth competitions but they don't produce special players at the senior level anymore, they are naturalizing American players to represent their country . The part of that is that there is no place for them in their best clubs, those clubs who are competing in Euroleague. Still that shouldn't be the big problem for them because they have the strongest national league in Europe but something is obviously wrong with their program. Also in their youth selections there are lots of physically and athletically matured players that representing them, many of them are from African descent . They are too dominant physically in the youth competitions but they can't translate their games at the senior level. Germany is more impressive than those two countries, in terms of producing quality players who are elevating their NT .
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I think Sarr has tremendous defensive upside and pretty flexible offensively. He will be good player. I'm not sure No.1 pick worthy, but surely nice upside. This draft class is weak anyway, so it's more about what teams need rather than choosing highest upside. I think Buzelis and then Sarr probably highest ceiling prospects. Risacher is overrated cause he has no handles and ISO creation as you said, but he is an amazing shooter with great size and elite defender. That translates to NBA very well. I think these 5 player I mention will be ballers, I just know less about Salaun. Yeah, France players a loved by ESPN scouts, but they are panning out poorly overall. Nevertheless I think these 5 will be ballers and off course Wemby can be great potentially. I think he will. He is second best defender in the world ATM probably already.

Too soon to say that Spain has any problems. Upcoming 2 tournaments will tell more. But they won 2019 and 2022, so... :) It's all good if you ask me. The question is can they sustain that level, but probably they will with Nunez, Gonzalez and so on. Spain's prospects get overlooked a bit early, but eventually they have some great players. Maybe that super extra class player may be missed in upcoming 10-15 years. I feel like people too generous when they put Gonzalez at 5# spot in 2025 NBA draft. He seems to me more like a solid role player, or a starter at best for the NBA. Not really a star potential, but who knows.

So who are next great German true guard after Schroder then? I know there's Franz, but I mean true guard. That will be the key for them. Can they have lead guard?
 
Germany have two really good prospects born in 2006 and one in 2007. All three of them are back court players,one of them will play for Mega Basket club next season Also they have lots of big men that can become very good players in the future. I am not sold on Spain that much, they should have retired their ancient players already and start with some new blood. Almansa seems to have the trouble adopting to the pro basketball. I really like him as the player but let see how he's going to fare next season in Europe. Nunez is the creative point guard but he has some limitations, he's not quick and athletic guard and his shooting is very bad. I am not sold yet on Gonzalez, he seems to be physically matured , the last year at U18 championship , a year younger than the most of the competition, he looked more physically advanced than the most players who participated there. I have to see him at the senior level. Mara made the big mistake by going to college,he needs to go back to Spain as soon as possible.
 
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Srle said:
Germany have two really good prospects born in 2006 and one in 2007. All three of them are back court players,one of them will play for Mega Basket club next season Also they have lots of big men that can become very good players in the future. I am not sold on Spain that much, they should have retired their ancient players already and start with some new blood. Almansa seems to have the trouble adopting to the pro basketball. I really like him as the player but let see how he's going to fare next season in Europe. Nunez is the creative point guard but he has some limitations, he's not quick and athletic guard and his shooting is very bad. I am not sold yet on Gonzalez, he seems to be physically matured , the last year at U18 championship , a year younger than the most of the competition, he looked more physically advanced than the most players who participated there. I have to see him at the senior level. Mara made the big mistake by going to college,he needs to go back to Spain as soon as possible.
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What are those German names? I have to take a look at them and see if they are real deal.
 
Srle said:
Jack Kayil ,Ivan Kharnchenkov ,Mathieu Grujicic.
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OK, Kayil and Grujicic are interesting. But by no means I would put Germany in front of France or Spain. Those named are to top tier prospects, at least ATM. Let's see how they will develop though. I don't see next Schroder in Kayil to be honest.
 
Straight forward said:
OK, Kayil and Grujicic are interesting. But by no means I would put Germany in front of France or Spain. Those named are to top tier prospects, at least ATM. Let's see how they will develop though. I don't see next Schroder in Kayil to be honest.
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I would add Christian Anderson Jr., Davi Remagen and Fabian Kayser to the list. The latter one is praised as the most promising German PG prospect ever, but time will tell. How would you rate Kharchenkov? Into my order he is the one and only player on the list I can not see not make it into the NBA, in case he does not suffer a serious injury. I see a mixture of Bojan and Bogdan Bogdanovic with comparable talent, what obviously does not mean he will have a similar successful career. Overall the amount of backcourt talent is unique for German basketball standards, still there is no guarantee of development and success as the likes of Mushidi, Freudenberg and Niklas Kiel showed us. We have to wait and see how these players will develop and fingers crossed they stay healthy. The future of our frontcourt may be more settled and the transition might come right after the Olympics. Hartenstein has renewed his interest to play tournaments for Germany in the near future several times. Tristan da Silva will be added and become a fix part of the national team, together with his brother. Johan Gruenloh is our biggest frontcourt talent. His offensive skillset is very raw at this point, but his defensive IQ is something I have not seen at this age very often. He will contribute as rim protector. Declan Duru has not polished his game over the last four years. He has shown some flashes regarding his passing, beside that, I see a great athlete without any qualities power forwards need to deliver in half court. Hukporti and his health stay a big question mark. Michael Rataj could develop into something. That is it. Hopefully the likes of Thiemann and Moe Wagner keep playing NT for some more years.​
 
thiago94 said:
I would add Christian Anderson Jr., Davi Remagen and Fabian Kayser to the list. The latter one is praised as the most promising German PG prospect ever, but time will tell. How would you rate Kharchenkov? Into my order he is the one and only player on the list I can not see not make it into the NBA, in case he does not suffer a serious injury. I see a mixture of Bojan and Bogdan Bogdanovic with comparable talent, what obviously does not mean he will have a similar successful career. Overall the amount of backcourt talent is unique for German basketball standards, still there is no guarantee of development and success as the likes of Mushidi, Freudenberg and Niklas Kiel showed us. We have to wait and see how these players will develop and fingers crossed they stay healthy. The future of our frontcourt may be more settled and the transition might come right after the Olympics. Hartenstein has renewed his interest to play tournaments for Germany in the near future several times. Tristan da Silva will be added and become a fix part of the national team, together with his brother. Johan Gruenloh is our biggest frontcourt talent. His offensive skillset is very raw at this point, but his defensive IQ is something I have not seen at this age very often. He will contribute as rim protector. Declan Duru has not polished his game over the last four years. He has shown some flashes regarding his passing, beside that, I see a great athlete without any qualities power forwards need to deliver in half court. Hukporti and his health stay a big question mark. Michael Rataj could develop into something. That is it. Hopefully the likes of Thiemann and Moe Wagner keep playing NT for some more years.​
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I'm grounding my opinions only on highlights in this case, but I don't see it in Kharchenkov. Not nearly as smooth and skilled as Bogdan or even Bojan. There's certain rigidness in his frame and skill. I don't see massive upside.

Anderson Jr, Davi Remagen and Kayil seems like good PG prospects who can reach EL level (maybe even be on NBA radar), but I don't see anything special ATM (again, watched very little). To me it seems like Kayil has most fundamentals and I would trust the most. While Remagen might be most special going down hill and an athlete, but again not even close to Schroder in terms of athleticism.

I like Grijicic as reliable shooter and Kayser as highest ceiling prospect from all this bunch. But Kayser is not PG, at least surely not pure PG. I barely see him as full time ballhandler. More like he's versatile wing, with some flashy, but pretty lose handles and special feel for the game, but it's hard to predict how it will translate later (he's 2009 gen, so it's a long shot).

If Kayser turns out to be true NBA material, first rounder, then prime Franze and young Kayser would be interesting at the start of 30s. Two super creative wings. But I can see a hole in Germany's BB after Schroder will retire or decline. No-one will be able to step into his shoes right away and probably long term. On other hand, he's just 31yo this summer. So maybe he can give full next Olympic cycle for Germany at elite level. We'll see.
 
It is absolutely legitimate to rate offensive skills based on highlight videos. Interesting, I might be not objective enough to fairly rate him. Next season Kharchenkov will start to see significant minutes at Bayern Munich and will most likely help us to project the skillset he has shown in youth tournaments and the third division in Germany to professional basketball.

All of them carry some question marks around: Anderson Jr. has to build up and learn how to play against physical opponents and make good decisions under pressure. He is clearly not use to it as he plays high school basketball, while Kayil was part of the rotation of Rasta Vechta II in the second division of Germany. You can see the difference. Kayil lacks some proper decision making though and is so far more playing like a SG than a PG. This is of course not uncommon, Schroeder till example had the same issues that age, but so far Kayil lacks some feeling for the game. Just to clarify, I do not want to make any comparison to Schroeder, it was just to underline my point. Some german and international youth experts (quote Per Guenther) compared him to Nolan Traore though and come to the conclusion, that the talent gap is not exceptional big. I would clearly not go that far as Traore is the real deal to me and someone who guarantees a great NBA career, in case he stays healthy, but I am positive Kayil could turn at least into a really good Euroleague player some day. Davi Remagen suffered a knee injury (don't know any specifics) last season, which is suboptimal. Hopefully it does not effect his lightning-quickness too much and he comes back as strong and talented as ever.

I have seen my first two full games of Kayser last week, therefore my opinion is mainly grounded on professional experts I trust and they rate him as future point guard. In the two games of our U17 NT last week he was primarily used as secondary ball-handler and at his club he is mostly playing as SG. Maybe it is not that important anyway in what position he will end up, in case he will become a thread in pick and roll situations and be able to initiate ball movement in half-court. You are absolutely right though. It's a long shot and too early to translate his talent into our future national team.

Our game will definitely change a lot without Schroeder and so will our culture. So far it is all centralized around our two main players in Schroeder and Wagner, who are surrounded by role-players who suit them perfectly. Without Schroeder roles would change significantly and some players are forced to step up and take more responsibility as we most likely can't fill his shoes with one single player and Wagner should not be forced to carry us all by himself. I think we might still be consistently rated as one of the four to seven best National Teams in Europe in the post-schroder-era in case three of the discussed players live up to their potential, but our overall quality will most likely drop and it will be nearly impossible to reproduce the quality of the last three years. I fear Olympics will become not only the last dance for coach Herbert, but as well for many of our key players.​
 
thiago94 said:
Our game will definitely change a lot without Schroeder and so will our culture. So far it is all centralized around our two main players in Schroeder and Wagner, who are surrounded by role-players who suit them perfectly. Without Schroeder roles would change significantly and some players are forced to step up and take more responsibility as we most likely can't fill his shoes with one single player and Wagner should not be forced to carry us all by himself. I think we might still be consistently rated as one of the four to seven best National Teams in Europe in the post-schroder-era in case three of the discussed players live up to their potential, but our overall quality will most likely drop and it will be nearly impossible to reproduce the quality of the last three years. I fear Olympics will become not only the last dance for coach Herbert, but as well for many of our key players.​
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This seems to be spot on summary.
 
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