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European Club Competitions 2024/25 - Signing & Rumors

  • Thread starter Thread starter Levenspiel2
  • Start date Start date
But why is that if Serbia is so crazy about basketball, like you said? I mean, look at Philippines. They have no success in basketball whatsoever, their competition have no quality at all, they national team had some of the most devastating loses in history of basketball and yet, they are one of the biggest basketball fanatics in the world.
To have 20 thousand fans in your Arena is something. But show me passion and devotion to the team when that team don't have much hope to achieve something, and for that I can tip my hat (not that it means anything, but like you said, it's just one man opinion :)​​​​​​).
For me, Zalgiris fans are best in competition, but that's highly subjective thought. :D

Discuss about things with you is like discussion with housefly..
 
Discuss about things with you is like discussion with housefly..

:D

So, it's like this:

You: My club is so important, omg fans, omg we are so crazy, omg euroleague will rather fall apart than drop us, did I just said how much we are I-M-P-O-R-T-A-N-T, because we are!
Me: I don't agree at all, because of that and that.
You: You don't have any idea what are you talking about, like look at those guys, they agree with me too!
Me: Well, still don't agree because of this and that.
You: (Proceed to name calling)
 
:D

So, it's like this:

You: My club is so important, omg fans, omg we are so crazy, omg euroleague will rather fall apart than drop us, did I just said how much we are I-M-P-O-R-T-A-N-T, because we are!
Me: I don't agree at all, because of that and that.
You: You don't have any idea what are you talking about, like look at those guys, they agree with me too!
Me: Well, still don't agree because of this and that.
You: (Proceed to name calling)

I dont think i said that, on the contrary you are one who quote guys who have opinion that both Serbian clubs have to play EL and try to change their opinion so this one is pretty hypocrital, arent it?

And any argument with discussion with you would be pure stupidness because you repeating same bulshits over and over, but maybe you thinking the way: bulshits said 100 times will become the truth or idk but like i said it is sooooo boring to have any discussion with you.

Also, i never told that euroleague will fall off, but it seems that u like to spin and make stories u would like to be. Anyways ofc EL will not fall apart without Serbians, like any other nation there, we saw example for Russians.​
 
yeah hezonja should have said "yes im leaving real to go to PANATHINAIKOS or barcelona" 3 days before the f4, especially when real-PANATHINAIKOS is probably the most favorable matchup to be the final game.

the players have their minds on the f4, not their next team. they have probably already settled that long ago. sloukas didnt agree with PANATHINAIKOS at july, he probably had done that, way before. but he still played concentrated and was the best loserbiakos players in the playoffs and was good at greek finals too. same with hezonja, he will probably come to PANATHINAIKOS, but he is a pro player getting paid millions, so his mind should be just on how to ensure real winning the euroleague
 
I dont think i said that, on the contrary you are one who quote guys who have opinion that both Serbian clubs have to play EL and try to change their opinion so this one is pretty hypocrital, arent it?

And any argument with discussion with you would be pure stupidness because you repeating same bulshits over and over, but maybe you thinking the way: bulshits said 100 times will become the truth or idk but like i said it is sooooo boring to have any discussion with you.

Also, i never told that euroleague will fall off, but it seems that u like to spin and make stories u would like to be. Anyways ofc EL will not fall apart without Serbians, like any other nation there, we saw example for Russians.​

Dude, just chill. :cool: Did I personally offended you in some way? No, I was just repeating my position again and again, because, well, that's my opinion after all. I think that Edgar wrote quite great post some hour ago, and I will just say that I agree with his post from first to last word. ;) If I may add something, you are free to say that my posts are utter nonsense or bullshit or any other word, but, in my opinion, you didn't provide any reasons why my posts are bullshit except that you didn't like what I wrote.
I will continue to have some questions about basketball clubs who in past didn't have much money and all of sudden, they try to sign players like Nikola Mirotic. If that club got rich owner like Panathinaikos, it's much more undestandable.
And, by the way, congrats for winning another adriatic league. It was well deserved! :)​​​​​​
 
Every club which has state as the owner shouldn't be in the EL. Markkanen has the point. If EL wants to be closed league then they can't depend about things like that. If Vucic decides to stop funding these clubs and he will at some point then what? And by giving them year by year licence you are discouraging other clubs that have money and have private owners to seek that long term licence. Sure, fans are great but who can guarantee they will always be in the arena? You could see already at some games of Zvezda at the end of the season that Stark arena was at half capacity at best. Who says same wouldn't happen with Partizan if they didn't have chance for the play-in...I am old enough to remember Pionir being so empty that you could hear coaches and players talking when Zvezda or Partizan were playing there. Also with all these fans Zvezda can't do anything in the EL all these years. It's crazy...Partizan couldn't beat Bursa in the EC. It's not all about fans. As I said at the beggining of the summer, both Zvezda and Partizan have not good rosters. Partizan was way overrated based on the playoff series against the worst Real since Fener destroyed them 3-0 in 2016. And at the end it's all about profit. Belgrade and Serbia can't bring you that. Outside of EL fans you think anyone cares will Lazic, Davidovac, Caboclo or Nunnally have good performance in full Stark arena in the game for the play-in spot? Nope. But, someone outside EL fans will care if let say Dubai brings some really good players or London lets say. Even tho I am not for Dubai...and also about fans, no one can tell me Galatasaray or Besiktas don't have better fans...also I can't underatand how no one in Greece invests in Aris. The only club that has crazy fans that care more about basketball than football or at least similar. You have great project with Unicaja. If they get long term licence with all the money they would be pretty good with Malaga always being the basketball city. But they didn't get the licence and since they don't have Spanish goverment as the owner they decided BCL is better for them. Also Isreal deserves 2 more teams at least by everything. If you watch money, budgets, owners and gyms then Hapoel Jerusalem and Hapoel Tel Aviv deserves to be in the EL. Jerusalem's owner is son of Miriam Adelson(30 billions USD net worth), he loves basketball, ready to spend a lot...they have great fans, great arena...everything. Hapoel Tel Aviv almost the same except their arena is smaller but it's like Palau Blaugrana. EL has to decide. Either this league will be closed like the NBA or make some rules that 2 worst teams will be relegated in the EC and the 2 best from the EC promoted in the EL. But even then you would have cases like Bourg this year. Even if they won EC they wouldn't play EL. So it's stupid to even talk about this right now. I think both Serbian clubs will be in the EL next season but from 2025. there is no chance. Only if there will be 20 clubs let say. But even then Russian clubs will return at some point, Israeli teams will be added, Dubai...sheesh I even expect Saudi clubs at some point so I think in 2 years max there won't be even wildcard for the Aba league winner.

It's all about profit. LOL

Do you know that basically every Euroleague team can't make profit? Euroleague alone is not sustainable concept because there is no money in Euro basketball. Simple as that. Do you think they wouldn't have made a closed league if they had a reliable financial construction? Money argument is dead. No Eurolegue team is making a profit. It's not a freaking NBA. Any comparison is just coincidental. Look what is happening with Virtus all of a sudden, Valencia?? You will have this basically every year, so your money argument concerning Goverment's funding of Serbian clubs doesn't work. It seems almost every team is in financial problem no matter where they are getting their funding from.

Don't you worry about Partizan's fans. As long as they play in Euroleague Partizan will be a top watched team in competition. They made a bunch of money solely on season tickets sale. That is foundation on which Partizan can build and make a more independent financial construction. Especailly if they get license. And no, Partizan wasn't overrated, they played best basketball in Euroleage for a half season and had a great playoff series vs Real. This season, they lost 2 of the best players who, as it turned out, couldn't be replaced with Kaminsky and PJ Dozier. Make it or break it, the same goes for every other team. So I'm not sure what was your point. Every season speaks for itself. Remember Pao from last season (or better say more than a few last years) and their crowd? Yeah, not a sight to remember. But, luckily, things can change fast.

I would much rather watch Partizan and Zvezda over lifeless dead bodies such as Alba and Asvel (oh, how is that money argument working here? LoL. I bet both Partizan and Zvezda with or without State's funding can be more competetive than these 2 Eurocup level teams that happen to play in Eurolegue for years). It's strange how no one is questioning their existance in Eurolegue from multiple aspects, but seem very concerned about Serbian clubs. LOL

​​​​​​Euroleague can't offer money. They are acting like Dubai's bitches only to get some money from them. That alone shows you how desperate they are. LOL

The original producs that Eurolegue can offer are fans, passion, great derbies and love for the game. That's it. When you have NBA players coming to Eurolegue games, they don't talk about Euroleague's organization and great profits, they talk about fans, atmosphere, love for the game.

Money argument is becoming less and less important because there isn't enough money to make all of this sustainable. Therefore, there will always be uncertainties about this competition, clubs and their fundings.

Real, Barca, Bayern...are just basketball sections of their football clubs. They just spend the money they didn't earn. There is no profit. What would happen to them if at least for just one year their football clubs cut fundings?

 
It's all about profit. LOL

Do you know that basically every Euroleague team can't make profit? Euroleague alone is not sustainable concept because there is no money in Euro basketball. Simple as that. Do you think they wouldn't have made a closed league if they had a reliable financial construction? Money argument is dead. No Eurolegue team is making a profit. It's not a freaking NBA. Any comparison is just coincidental. Look what is happening with Virtus all of a sudden, Valencia?? You will have this basically every year, so your money argument concerning Goverment's funding of Serbian clubs doesn't work. It seems almost every team is in financial problem no matter where they are getting their funding from.

Don't you worry about Partizan's fans. As long as they play in Euroleague Partizan will be a top watched team in competition. They made a bunch of money solely on season tickets sale. That is foundation on which Partizan can build and make a more independent financial construction. Especailly if they get license. And no, Partizan wasn't overrated, they played best basketball in Euroleage for a half season and had a great playoff series vs Real. This season, they lost 2 of the best players who, as it turned out, couldn't be replaced with Kaminsky and PJ Dozier. Make it or break it, the same goes for every other team. So I'm not sure what was your point. Every season speaks for itself. Remember Pao from last season (or better say more than a few last years) and their crowd? Yeah, not a sight to remember. But, luckily, things can change fast.

I would much rather watch Partizan and Zvezda over lifeless dead bodies such as Alba and Asvel (oh, how is that money argument working here? LoL. I bet both Partizan and Zvezda with or without State's funding can be more competetive than these 2 Eurocup level teams that happen to play in Eurolegue for years). It's strange how no one is questioning their existance in Eurolegue from multiple aspects, but seem very concerned about Serbian clubs. LOL

​​​​​​Euroleague can't offer money. They are acting like Dubai's bitches only to get some money from them. That alone shows you how desperate they are. LOL

The original producs that Eurolegue can offer are fans, passion, great derbies and love for the game. That's it. When you have NBA players coming to Eurolegue games, they don't talk about Euroleague's organization and great profits, they talk about fans, atmosphere, love for the game.

Money argument is becoming less and less important because there isn't enough money to make all of this sustainable. Therefore, there will always be uncertainties about this competition, clubs and their fundings.

Real, Barca, Bayern...are just basketball sections of their football clubs. They just spend the money they didn't earn. There is no profit. What would happen to them if at least for just one year their football clubs cut fundings?


I never thought that i would say this, but i kinda agree with ur post..:D

If we all gonna think that way, lets lock league with 5 Emirates clubs, London, Paris, probably add some team from Luxemburg and lets play bball..
Common sense is that both Serbia clubs should be pernament memebers of Euroleague, with 5 or 35 million budgets. Also idk why people here hurt so much fact that Serbian clubs is finansied by state, i mean , we all know that basketball in Europe is not profitable sport and club in Serbia most likley will never be privatized so somebody (state) must help clubs to function, really dont know why that fact hurt some people here.
 
I never thought that i would say this, but i kinda agree with ur post..:D

If we all gonna think that way, lets lock league with 5 Emirates clubs, London, Paris, probably add some team from Luxemburg and lets play bball..
Common sense is that both Serbia clubs should be pernament memebers of Euroleague, with 5 or 35 million budgets. Also idk why people here hurt so much fact that Serbian clubs is finansied by state, i mean , we all know that basketball in Europe is not profitable sport and club in Serbia most likley will never be privatized so somebody (state) must help clubs to function, really dont know why that fact hurt some people here.

Exactly. Let's do that and just kill all the things that make Euroleague watchable and amusing. I bet English fans are crazy about basketball. Luxemburg is known to be a basketball loving country with great fans. LOL

There are far greater aspects to consider than just money.
 
What about Zalgiris?? :) I mean, I'm not talking exactly about young players, but players who don't have euroleague expirience and need chance. Guys like Pangos or Walkup, now Evans or Hayes. Where will they play in euroleague if not in teams like Alba or Zalgiris?
​​​

It is true that Zalgiris plays youngsters maybe more than other teams but I think we have a different definition of “developing players”. Pangos going to Zalgiris at 23 is not a player to be developed. He just gets playing time. When I talk about development I mean the Birutis of this world.

For me, the league needs to be competitive. Now, how teams plan to do this, it’s up to them. If they can have a good mixture of seasoned players and a decent development program to incorporate younger players then so be it. But I will not say that the EL “needs” teams that are just willing to take youngsters and EC level players to give them a shot while they are permanently at the bottom of the table. That’s not competitive.
 
I would much rather watch Partizan and Zvezda over lifeless dead bodies such as Alba and Asvel (oh, how is that money argument working here? LoL. I bet both Partizan and Zvezda with or without State's funding can be more competetive than these 2 Eurocup level teams that happen to play in Eurolegue for years). It's strange how no one is questioning their existance in Eurolegue from multiple aspects, but seem very concerned about Serbian clubs. LOL

I can understand why you think such way about french team, but why are you so harsh to Alba? They are great club, they are spending what they could earn during season, they are in business of developing players, they are underdog who can beat clubs with much deeper pockets. You don't like that? Well, what do you like, same clubs in competition season after season and all the rest of Europe practically dead or, in another words irelevant? The best example is Adriatic league, years ago one of the best league in Europe, full of talent, passion, and now, all you can watch is endless battle against Red Star again and again and again. :(
You said that euroleague can't make teams richer by itself, but somehow, in case of Partizan you think that's not a case. Well, your club was poor decades and decades before, until a couple years in past when, all of sudden you can make an offer to Nikola Mirotic. I mean, come on dude, if you think that's normal behavior I don't know what to say to you. And you also said that Partizan can make money if they play in Euroleague, but that's the case with so many clubs. Why is Hapoel Jerusalem different than your club, I mean, they don't have history, but they do have fans. Galatasaray have fans, Besiktas also, some clubs from Italy, same. ;)
What are you suggesting is this (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), let's have same clubs in Euroleague over and over again, like 16 clubs because they are rich, and Red Star and Partizan because they have the best fans in the world. So, one criteria for 16 clubs, and other for serbian ones. So, like Real, Barcelona, Olympiacos, Panathinaikos, Milano, Bayern Munich, Monaco, CSKA (after the end of invasion of Ukraine), Zenit, Fenerbahce, Efes, Paris, Virtus, Maccabi, Baskonia, Valencia because they have money, and Red Star and Partizan because they are so so important. :D
Dude, you allready have UEFA competition and in them, you will play if you win the domestic title or second or third place, not because there are some fans who want to see their club against the best of Europe. So, in case of Olimpija winning Adriatic league, they should play with other champions, not Partizan or Red Star. Or you think that Olimpija fans are much less important than fans of Partizan, and they didn't deserve to watch Euroleague in their Arena? Because if you think that, you don't have any right to complain when somebody choose to pick Dubai over Partizan, or even Alba or London over Partizan. You deserve that because of your choice to support closed league and permanent places just because you think that your club could use thay system to destroy regional or domestic competition forever. :confused:
 
It is true that Zalgiris plays youngsters maybe more than other teams but I think we have a different definition of “developing players”. Pangos going to Zalgiris at 23 is not a player to be developed. He just gets playing time. When I talk about development I mean the Birutis of this world.

For me, the league needs to be competitive. Now, how teams plan to do this, it’s up to them. If they can have a good mixture of seasoned players and a decent development program to incorporate younger players then so be it. But I will not say that the EL “needs” teams that are just willing to take youngsters and EC level players to give them a shot while they are permanently at the bottom of the table. That’s not competitive.

There is no need for bottom of standings, just get rid of this system and you can have four groups with six or eight teams, so much more teams, and if some of them are weak they will not get promoted to next level of competition. But, if the goal is to only have rich teams in competition, than this whole discussion about Red Star or Partizan is pointless because, in my opinion, clubs from such poor country have no business to be on same level as Real Madrid or Efes or Maccabi or Monaco or any other clubs with rich owners. ;)
 
You still trying man.
I strongly dislike Partizan, but Serbia deserve to have 2 teams in Euroleague every season. Cause we are probably biggest basketball country in Europe, because passionate fans, because every week Belgrade can pack 40.000 people in Arena (when both is host), because of ethernal derby, and even we have solid budgets.

This. Serbia and Russia are the fathers of European basketball. I don't want Serbian teams going the way of Olimpia Ljubljana and Cibona. Both Partizan and Red Star are very hostile places for Panathinaikos due to their brotherhood with PAOK and Olympiakos respectively and Gate 13'S friendship with the BBB of Dynamo Zagreb but I want them in the EL. Not many teams can fill 20K arenas every week. RS were out of the Play in's 7-8 weeks before the end of RS but shill commanded 10K - 12K+ attendances.

You can throw in as many German and French teams as you like but you want get their market because basically the people doesnt give a shit about basketball. The French people that do only care for the NBA. Same in the UK. They only follow NBA. On the other hand. I understand Spain has the best league but I don't want more than 4 Spanish teams in the competition.
 
yeah hezonja should have said "yes im leaving real to go to PANATHINAIKOS or barcelona" 3 days before the f4, especially when real-PANATHINAIKOS is probably the most favorable matchup to be the final game.

the players have their minds on the f4, not their next team. they have probably already settled that long ago. sloukas didnt agree with PANATHINAIKOS at july, he probably had done that, way before. but he still played concentrated and was the best loserbiakos players in the playoffs and was good at greek finals too. same with hezonja, he will probably come to PANATHINAIKOS, but he is a pro player getting paid millions, so his mind should be just on how to ensure real winning the euroleague

Why are you twisting my words? I have never said he should say something like that. But he is the only person on the planet that is Gate 13, Grobar, Cule and supports Real. If you don't understand his approach then I am so sorry but he wants to use every club to get the biggest contract. He doesn't give a damn if that will be Alba as long as he gets the biggest contract. And that's fair enough, but then he needs to shut up about his incredible love for Panathinaikos. I can't wait to see what's going to happen in summer. Also your logic about Sloukas is just crazy. He never had contact with Pao before the summer. Hezonja did but he acts like he wants to play in every damn club in the Europe. He just needs to shut up and say that he will say everything after the season. But no, he wants Florentino to offer a little bit more so he can call Laporta and then Laporta gives him a little bit more. After that he will call Savic and Obradovic so they can match the offer + 1 euro and then at the end DPG will be the last one to know about everything because he is the only one crazy to spend that much on Hezonja.
 
Solution is simple, let's return to old system if we don't want to talk about London or Dubai. Let's try to revive more clubs, to have a base of 30 or 40 clubs who can play in euroleague like we have before. So, here is the deal, 24 clubs, 20 in main round and 4 from some kind of qualifiers.
Spain, 4 spots + 1 for qualifiers
Italy, 3+1
France, 2+1
Germany, 2+2
Adriatic, 3+1
Lithuania, 1+2
Latvia, 0+1
Belgium, 0+1
Turkey, 3+1
Greece, 2+1
Israel, 1+2
Romania, 0+1
Poland, 0+1
But if we as fans don't want that, if there is no money for that, then don't talk anymore about which club have crazy fans and which don't, we will have league for rich markets, and Serbia is not among them. Their only chance to participate is in open league, not closed one. :)
 
It's all about profit. LOL

Do you know that basically every Euroleague team can't make profit? Euroleague alone is not sustainable concept because there is no money in Euro basketball. Simple as that. Do you think they wouldn't have made a closed league if they had a reliable financial construction? Money argument is dead. No Eurolegue team is making a profit. It's not a freaking NBA. Any comparison is just coincidental. Look what is happening with Virtus all of a sudden, Valencia?? You will have this basically every year, so your money argument concerning Goverment's funding of Serbian clubs doesn't work. It seems almost every team is in financial problem no matter where they are getting their funding from.

Don't you worry about Partizan's fans. As long as they play in Euroleague Partizan will be a top watched team in competition. They made a bunch of money solely on season tickets sale. That is foundation on which Partizan can build and make a more independent financial construction. Especailly if they get license. And no, Partizan wasn't overrated, they played best basketball in Euroleage for a half season and had a great playoff series vs Real. This season, they lost 2 of the best players who, as it turned out, couldn't be replaced with Kaminsky and PJ Dozier. Make it or break it, the same goes for every other team. So I'm not sure what was your point. Every season speaks for itself. Remember Pao from last season (or better say more than a few last years) and their crowd? Yeah, not a sight to remember. But, luckily, things can change fast.

I would much rather watch Partizan and Zvezda over lifeless dead bodies such as Alba and Asvel (oh, how is that money argument working here? LoL. I bet both Partizan and Zvezda with or without State's funding can be more competetive than these 2 Eurocup level teams that happen to play in Eurolegue for years). It's strange how no one is questioning their existance in Eurolegue from multiple aspects, but seem very concerned about Serbian clubs. LOL

​​​​​​Euroleague can't offer money. They are acting like Dubai's bitches only to get some money from them. That alone shows you how desperate they are. LOL

The original producs that Eurolegue can offer are fans, passion, great derbies and love for the game. That's it. When you have NBA players coming to Eurolegue games, they don't talk about Euroleague's organization and great profits, they talk about fans, atmosphere, love for the game.

Money argument is becoming less and less important because there isn't enough money to make all of this sustainable. Therefore, there will always be uncertainties about this competition, clubs and their fundings.

Real, Barca, Bayern...are just basketball sections of their football clubs. They just spend the money they didn't earn. There is no profit. What would happen to them if at least for just one year their football clubs cut fundings?


Wow, where to start. Ok, about the profit. I said that because of the market. Belgrade and Serbia are small. They depend on the money from the goverment. That's fine. I don't have any problem with that seriously if there are guarantees from the goverment that the funding will be the case in the next 10 years! But they can't give that because it won't happen. You are talking about football sections of some clubs. What are the chances that Real, Bayern, Barcelona, Fener...don't have money for one Euroleague season? 20, 30M for them is nothing. Greek clubs have billionaires as their owners. Russians have huge sponsors like Norilsk Nickel or Gazprom. Maccabi rich owners. Valencia rich owner. Virtus had until couple of days rich owner. And then we have teams that don't have huge budgets like Asvel, Alba, Zalgiris. Zalgiris is huge club with history for me much bigger than Partizan not to mention Zvezda. And even they have private owner. Alba, I am not huge fan of them. But Berlin is huge market. Germany is huge market. Germany is world basketball champion. Same goes for Asvel and France. You have now Paris. Paris is twice bigger than whole Serbia. And they have private owner also! So if you are CEO of the EL, don't be biased, tell me...would you rather have Paris and Alba that have private owners and you know they don't depend about goverment and elections and btw they are coming from the EU, from huge cities or would you rather want Zvezda and Partizan? You will probably say Serbian clubs but in the EL they don't care about your fans. They see where they can get the most money. Alba and Paris can fill their arenas every game also. I won't even mention London. Basketball is becoming much more popular in the UK, London is huge city, there is market for them. Bigger market than in Belgrade that is basketball city for sure. It is what it is. Sounds crazy but that's the truth.

Zvezda have horrible results. Their best achievement is playoff series against CSKA where they lost 3-0. In what...10 years? That year when they played EC they couldn't even be top 2 in their group. Partizan had HCA against Bursa and lost. Last year 6th with the worst Panathinaikos in the history, Milano horrible, Efes huge disappointment...ok I am not taking anything from Partizan but we saw this year where they stand. And then you have team like Alba that you are trying to mock that in these same 10 years played EC final, won multiple times German league that is 3 times better than ABA league...the same Alba that has no fans as you said and doesn't invest money and is EC team as you mentioned. But you have fans! And no results, but hey, you have clips about fans on the Tik Tok and Yt and Alba doesn't but they have trophies in much tougher competition and fights for the European trophies. You see how your logic about fans and derbies is wrong for any EL fan that doesn't care that much about that? Only great thing about Zvezda is producing Kalinic, Guduric...last good player Partizan produced is Marinkovic. Alba gave so many good players for the basketball world in the same years....

Do you remember when Rashwan Thomas played for Partizan? Well, you played then in the Stark Arena some games and I remember very well that in the ABA league games there weren't even 2000 fans. And again, who cares if you have great fans. I don't think arena will be empty, kudos to you for always having the full arena but that's not the biggest thing in the life. Also saying you played the best basketball last year for half the season is one hell of a statement. You were 6th. Maccabi was 7th this year. And they played great at the end. So it's the same you say Maccabi is awesome and the best team after whoever will win EL this year. Real was horrific last year. Injuries, aged players, pressure on the coach...and you won first 2 games and you speak about that like you won 7 EL titles in a row. I remember very well what were people saying here about projections of the standings before the EL started and everyone was saying Partizan will be great based on that against Real. That's crazy. Pao can win the EL now, Maccabi lost against us 3-2, they were 7th, also played great one part of the season and people will call them top 3 contender for the next year like Partizan fans were calling their team this year before the season started? :rolleyes:


You speak about Panathinaikos. Last year fans didn't want to attend because of the argument with Giannakopoulos and not investing money in the team year by year. So we had enough. And the things changed. We showed for 30 years how we live basketball. Only us with the special mention for Zalgiris' and Maccabi's fans. Not fans of Oly, Fener, Serbian clubs...this year we had I think only 4000 or something like that season tickets allowed to buy. The cheapest ticket for the games were 40 euros. We had by far the most expensive tickets in the history of the EL this season and we still had like 10 sold out games from 20 games and 4, 5 where 98% of the arena was full. Next year will be every game full because 11500 season tickers have been sold in 24 hours, again for the huge prices (I paid mine for not very fancy seat 1300 euros).

I am not for Alba or Asvel but if I am CEO of the EL I would rather take them if it is do or die situation rather than teams that depend on goverments money. My ideal situation would be 20 teams. 2 conferences. 10 per each.

West - Real, Barca, Valencia, Baskonia, Milano, Virtus, Bayern, Alba, Paris, Monaco.
East - Panathinaikos, Olympiacos, Zalgiris, Fener, Efes, Besiktas/Galatasaray, Maccabi, Hapoel Tel Aviv/Jerusalem, CSKA, Zenit.
And then put promotion, relegation system and that's it. But I agree with the way Alba plays and invests now at least for the next season Serbian clubs should be in the competition before them. From 25-26 it will be very hard because I think Besiktas will try evertyhing to enter, Paris will get long term licence, winner of the EC, Russians might come back who knows and we will see about Israeli teams. That's just the reality and you shouldn't be angry about that. You should be angry at the goverment that doesn't allow those clubs to be private. Because majority of teams are from the EU and things like are not allowed there.

As the fan I want to watch the best teams. I don't care if they have incredible fans or someone that only yells "defense, defense". I would rather watch Mike James in Monaco than Yago in Zvezda. If Serbian clubs can offer great teams without any problems with the money then they should play! But that's just me as the fan. I am not earning shit from this except losing money on the betting. People from the EL care about money and at the end they will see Serbian teams are just not worth of the spot in closed EL.
 
Wow, where to start. Ok, about the profit. I said that because of the market. Belgrade and Serbia are small. They depend on the money from the goverment. That's fine. I don't have any problem with that seriously if there are guarantees from the goverment that the funding will be the case in the next 10 years! But they can't give that because it won't happen. You are talking about football sections of some clubs. What are the chances that Real, Bayern, Barcelona, Fener...don't have money for one Euroleague season? 20, 30M for them is nothing. Greek clubs have billionaires as their owners. Russians have huge sponsors like Norilsk Nickel or Gazprom. Maccabi rich owners. Valencia rich owner. Virtus had until couple of days rich owner. And then we have teams that don't have huge budgets like Asvel, Alba, Zalgiris. Zalgiris is huge club with history for me much bigger than Partizan not to mention Zvezda. And even they have private owner. Alba, I am not huge fan of them. But Berlin is huge market. Germany is huge market. Germany is world basketball champion. Same goes for Asvel and France. You have now Paris. Paris is twice bigger than whole Serbia. And they have private owner also! So if you are CEO of the EL, don't be biased, tell me...would you rather have Paris and Alba that have private owners and you know they don't depend about goverment and elections and btw they are coming from the EU, from huge cities or would you rather want Zvezda and Partizan? You will probably say Serbian clubs but in the EL they don't care about your fans. They see where they can get the most money. Alba and Paris can fill their arenas every game also. I won't even mention London. Basketball is becoming much more popular in the UK, London is huge city, there is market for them. Bigger market than in Belgrade that is basketball city for sure. It is what it is. Sounds crazy but that's the truth.

Zvezda have horrible results. Their best achievement is playoff series against CSKA where they lost 3-0. In what...10 years? That year when they played EC they couldn't even be top 2 in their group. Partizan had HCA against Bursa and lost. Last year 6th with the worst Panathinaikos in the history, Milano horrible, Efes huge disappointment...ok I am not taking anything from Partizan but we saw this year where they stand. And then you have team like Alba that you are trying to mock that in these same 10 years played EC final, won multiple times German league that is 3 times better than ABA league...the same Alba that has no fans as you said and doesn't invest money and is EC team as you mentioned. But you have fans! And no results, but hey, you have clips about fans on the Tik Tok and Yt and Alba doesn't but they have trophies in much tougher competition and fights for the European trophies. You see how your logic about fans and derbies is wrong for any EL fan that doesn't care that much about that? Only great thing about Zvezda is producing Kalinic, Guduric...last good player Partizan produced is Marinkovic. Alba gave so many good players for the basketball world in the same years....

Do you remember when Rashwan Thomas played for Partizan? Well, you played then in the Stark Arena some games and I remember very well that in the ABA league games there weren't even 2000 fans. And again, who cares if you have great fans. I don't think arena will be empty, kudos to you for always having the full arena but that's not the biggest thing in the life. Also saying you played the best basketball last year for half the season is one hell of a statement. You were 6th. Maccabi was 7th this year. And they played great at the end. So it's the same you say Maccabi is awesome and the best team after whoever will win EL this year. Real was horrific last year. Injuries, aged players, pressure on the coach...and you won first 2 games and you speak about that like you won 7 EL titles in a row. I remember very well what were people saying here about projections of the standings before the EL started and everyone was saying Partizan will be great based on that against Real. That's crazy. Pao can win the EL now, Maccabi lost against us 3-2, they were 7th, also played great one part of the season and people will call them top 3 contender for the next year like Partizan fans were calling their team this year before the season started? :rolleyes:


You speak about Panathinaikos. Last year fans didn't want to attend because of the argument with Giannakopoulos and not investing money in the team year by year. So we had enough. And the things changed. We showed for 30 years how we live basketball. Only us with the special mention for Zalgiris' and Maccabi's fans. Not fans of Oly, Fener, Serbian clubs...this year we had I think only 4000 or something like that season tickets allowed to buy. The cheapest ticket for the games were 40 euros. We had by far the most expensive tickets in the history of the EL this season and we still had like 10 sold out games from 20 games and 4, 5 where 98% of the arena was full. Next year will be every game full because 11500 season tickers have been sold in 24 hours, again for the huge prices (I paid mine for not very fancy seat 1300 euros).

I am not for Alba or Asvel but if I am CEO of the EL I would rather take them if it is do or die situation rather than teams that depend on goverments money. My ideal situation would be 20 teams. 2 conferences. 10 per each.

West - Real, Barca, Valencia, Baskonia, Milano, Virtus, Bayern, Alba, Paris, Monaco.
East - Panathinaikos, Olympiacos, Zalgiris, Fener, Efes, Besiktas/Galatasaray, Maccabi, Hapoel Tel Aviv/Jerusalem, CSKA, Zenit.
And then put promotion, relegation system and that's it. But I agree with the way Alba plays and invests now at least for the next season Serbian clubs should be in the competition before them. From 25-26 it will be very hard because I think Besiktas will try evertyhing to enter, Paris will get long term licence, winner of the EC, Russians might come back who knows and we will see about Israeli teams. That's just the reality and you shouldn't be angry about that. You should be angry at the goverment that doesn't allow those clubs to be private. Because majority of teams are from the EU and things like are not allowed there.

As the fan I want to watch the best teams. I don't care if they have incredible fans or someone that only yells "defense, defense". I would rather watch Mike James in Monaco than Yago in Zvezda. If Serbian clubs can offer great teams without any problems with the money then they should play! But that's just me as the fan. I am not earning shit from this except losing money on the betting. People from the EL care about money and at the end they will see Serbian teams are just not worth of the spot in closed EL.

I liked this post cos this is the longest post in the history of IBN:)

Joke aside there are arguments I agree, most of that is true, especially 2 conferences

But still I think one serbian club should get wild card from their league and 2nd card in future should be shared among Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia and Montenegro. Who make 1st step should get that card.
There are 3 El champions from the past, but tbh Bosnia isn;t serious contender, Split also, but I hope Cibona will come back one day because they belongs to elite, after all those historic games.

Which makes 2 conferences with 12 clubs:) East is packed but west is a problem
 
Wow, where to start. Ok, about the profit. I said that because of the market. Belgrade and Serbia are small. They depend on the money from the goverment. That's fine. I don't have any problem with that seriously if there are guarantees from the goverment that the funding will be the case in the next 10 years! But they can't give that because it won't happen. You are talking about football sections of some clubs. What are the chances that Real, Bayern, Barcelona, Fener...don't have money for one Euroleague season? 20, 30M for them is nothing. Greek clubs have billionaires as their owners. Russians have huge sponsors like Norilsk Nickel or Gazprom. Maccabi rich owners. Valencia rich owner. Virtus had until couple of days rich owner. And then we have teams that don't have huge budgets like Asvel, Alba, Zalgiris. Zalgiris is huge club with history for me much bigger than Partizan not to mention Zvezda. And even they have private owner. Alba, I am not huge fan of them. But Berlin is huge market. Germany is huge market. Germany is world basketball champion. Same goes for Asvel and France. You have now Paris. Paris is twice bigger than whole Serbia. And they have private owner also! So if you are CEO of the EL, don't be biased, tell me...would you rather have Paris and Alba that have private owners and you know they don't depend about goverment and elections and btw they are coming from the EU, from huge cities or would you rather want Zvezda and Partizan? You will probably say Serbian clubs but in the EL they don't care about your fans. They see where they can get the most money. Alba and Paris can fill their arenas every game also. I won't even mention London. Basketball is becoming much more popular in the UK, London is huge city, there is market for them. Bigger market than in Belgrade that is basketball city for sure. It is what it is. Sounds crazy but that's the truth.

Zvezda have horrible results. Their best achievement is playoff series against CSKA where they lost 3-0. In what...10 years? That year when they played EC they couldn't even be top 2 in their group. Partizan had HCA against Bursa and lost. Last year 6th with the worst Panathinaikos in the history, Milano horrible, Efes huge disappointment...ok I am not taking anything from Partizan but we saw this year where they stand. And then you have team like Alba that you are trying to mock that in these same 10 years played EC final, won multiple times German league that is 3 times better than ABA league...the same Alba that has no fans as you said and doesn't invest money and is EC team as you mentioned. But you have fans! And no results, but hey, you have clips about fans on the Tik Tok and Yt and Alba doesn't but they have trophies in much tougher competition and fights for the European trophies. You see how your logic about fans and derbies is wrong for any EL fan that doesn't care that much about that? Only great thing about Zvezda is producing Kalinic, Guduric...last good player Partizan produced is Marinkovic. Alba gave so many good players for the basketball world in the same years....

Do you remember when Rashwan Thomas played for Partizan? Well, you played then in the Stark Arena some games and I remember very well that in the ABA league games there weren't even 2000 fans. And again, who cares if you have great fans. I don't think arena will be empty, kudos to you for always having the full arena but that's not the biggest thing in the life. Also saying you played the best basketball last year for half the season is one hell of a statement. You were 6th. Maccabi was 7th this year. And they played great at the end. So it's the same you say Maccabi is awesome and the best team after whoever will win EL this year. Real was horrific last year. Injuries, aged players, pressure on the coach...and you won first 2 games and you speak about that like you won 7 EL titles in a row. I remember very well what were people saying here about projections of the standings before the EL started and everyone was saying Partizan will be great based on that against Real. That's crazy. Pao can win the EL now, Maccabi lost against us 3-2, they were 7th, also played great one part of the season and people will call them top 3 contender for the next year like Partizan fans were calling their team this year before the season started? :rolleyes:


You speak about Panathinaikos. Last year fans didn't want to attend because of the argument with Giannakopoulos and not investing money in the team year by year. So we had enough. And the things changed. We showed for 30 years how we live basketball. Only us with the special mention for Zalgiris' and Maccabi's fans. Not fans of Oly, Fener, Serbian clubs...this year we had I think only 4000 or something like that season tickets allowed to buy. The cheapest ticket for the games were 40 euros. We had by far the most expensive tickets in the history of the EL this season and we still had like 10 sold out games from 20 games and 4, 5 where 98% of the arena was full. Next year will be every game full because 11500 season tickers have been sold in 24 hours, again for the huge prices (I paid mine for not very fancy seat 1300 euros).

I am not for Alba or Asvel but if I am CEO of the EL I would rather take them if it is do or die situation rather than teams that depend on goverments money. My ideal situation would be 20 teams. 2 conferences. 10 per each.

West - Real, Barca, Valencia, Baskonia, Milano, Virtus, Bayern, Alba, Paris, Monaco.
East - Panathinaikos, Olympiacos, Zalgiris, Fener, Efes, Besiktas/Galatasaray, Maccabi, Hapoel Tel Aviv/Jerusalem, CSKA, Zenit.
And then put promotion, relegation system and that's it. But I agree with the way Alba plays and invests now at least for the next season Serbian clubs should be in the competition before them. From 25-26 it will be very hard because I think Besiktas will try evertyhing to enter, Paris will get long term licence, winner of the EC, Russians might come back who knows and we will see about Israeli teams. That's just the reality and you shouldn't be angry about that. You should be angry at the goverment that doesn't allow those clubs to be private. Because majority of teams are from the EU and things like are not allowed there.

As the fan I want to watch the best teams. I don't care if they have incredible fans or someone that only yells "defense, defense". I would rather watch Mike James in Monaco than Yago in Zvezda. If Serbian clubs can offer great teams without any problems with the money then they should play! But that's just me as the fan. I am not earning shit from this except losing money on the betting. People from the EL care about money and at the end they will see Serbian teams are just not worth of the spot in closed EL.

You are missing pretty much everything.

Who cares about big markets like London when they do not want to throw money. Do you know why? Basketball is not profitable sport there, they don't love basketball and their sports fans don't care about it. Do you really think Euroleague wouldn't have integrated markets like London by now if they had a chance to do that. You can have as big of a market as you like, but when the product you are trying to sell is not popular there and nobody cares about it, big markets don't mean anything for you. Nobody is watching basketball there. There can be a big market but if there is no profit, nobody cares about big market because your product sucks on that market and you can't sell anything. Do you understand? Being on the big market is useless if you can't sell products. And if you can't sell product, there is no profit. It is not sustainable. All of those rich owners are just losing money. You are telling me you were protesting becuase Pao owners didn't want to invest! Oh, I was very surprised. LOL. That is going to happen again because they are losing money. Nobody likes that. Can't you see that every now and then there is a problem with fundings in some Euroleague team. Partizan and Zvezda depending on State's funding is not anything more dangerous than a handful of Eurolegue teams entering every season with concerns about their fundings. Do you understand that you can not talk about serious closed league when every Euroleague team is not making a profit. They are just big spenders. Real, Barca and many other teams are just spending a ton of money which they didn't earn. All clubs are spending way more than they can earn. That is a big problem when you want to make a financially sustainable project. That's why you have uncertainties with bunch of Euroleague teams. And Partizan and Zvezda are no exceptions in that regard. Actually, they are nothing to be worried about when you are looking at the bigger picture and see the way things are functionning in Eurolegue.

Even German market. They won Mundobsket last year. 1.500 people welcome them at the airport. According to one research, basketball is not even top 20 sports the German state want to invest based on potential and chances for success. Alba and their BIG market. Lol. Everything you wrote here is laughable. We are talking about their competetiveness in Euroleague, not in German league. I don't care what they do in German league. I watch Euroleague and we are talking about their success in Euroleague. Don't change subject. So tell me, how many years has Alba been playing in Euroleague? What is their biggest success? Partizan, for example, didn't play Euroleague for like 10 years until last year, and immediately made it to playoffs. Alba? Yeah, I rest my case. I guess something is not like it should be on that BIG Berlin market. Maybe outside of that arena nobody is watching them and nobody cares about what they do. LOL

You are trying very hard to diss on Partizan's big season last year just because Real was the 'worst' in recent years. That's shallow argument. That 'worst' Real still won title and there is no way you can downgrade another team just because Real was not as good as this year. You are not giving credit where credit is due. Check Partizan's record in the second half of the season or at least in the last 3 months of the season and tell me how they weren't the best team in Euroleague at that moment.

I keep trying to tell you that one bad season doesn't mean anything when you plan the next one (unless you are Alba or Asvel of course). So, your persistance to downgrade Partizan's last season just because this season wasn't as good is laughable and doesn't have anything to do with next season and what will happen there. You go wrong with one transfer and you are already in probelms. A little bit of luck is needed, it's the same for every team. It's make it or break it.

Ok, let's talk about Partizan's impact on European basketball. Do you understand that Partizan is one of rare pioneers of Eurpean basketball still alive that transformed and shaped basketball and made it popular. Go through Partizan's history. Look at those​ freaking names. Coaches, players, basketball enthusiasts who impacted the game of basketball...What if I told you that when Partizan was changing the game of basketball (along with other great Yougoslav clubs) Pao was nowhere to be found on basketball map? Actually, the biggest part of Pao's history is the courtesy of Serbian coaches and players, many of whom are made in Partizan. In fact, you should be greatful for Partizan. LOL. If there wasn't for Partizan...Pao might not have as many titles as they have. Now this sounds like I'm dissing on Pao which I'm not. I love Pao, many of their players are among my favourite, but I'm just using your logic to present some counter arguments.

If you are advocating that Partizan or Serbian clubs are not worthy of Eurolegaue in any shape or form, you are picking lousy arguments to prove it.​
 
It is hilarious what i can read here.. those things about conference without any Serbian team is dope.
Serbia is home of European basketball and just because of that fact we deserve both team in the Euroleague, then add passion, fans, best basketball derby in Europe (together with Oly/Pao), even budgets in past year
It is weird to read that guys act like Euroleague CEO's and would like to see Monaco and Dubai instead of passion.
 
There is no need for bottom of standings, just get rid of this system and you can have four groups with six or eight teams, so much more teams, and if some of them are weak they will not get promoted to next level of competition. But, if the goal is to only have rich teams in competition, than this whole discussion about Red Star or Partizan is pointless because, in my opinion, clubs from such poor country have no business to be on same level as Real Madrid or Efes or Maccabi or Monaco or any other clubs with rich owners. ;)

I don't see how the backing of rich owners is different than state funding. Both of them could stop at any point. I'm generally morally against the government spending so much on sports teams but that's a problem that Serbian people should deal with, not me. If they don't mind it, who am I to say anything?

As far as your first sentence goes: well, I don't think there is a singular best answer to this. Different forms of competition serve different objectives and one should try to find what they want to optimize for. In the case I'm assuming it's money :p But on the other hand, there is something inherently "fair" about having everyone playing against everyone. This is how all our domestic championships go so having the "European championship" being this way seems logical (?).

Now, personally, I'm all for adding even more teams and maybe do a conference style competition but as the others mentioned before, because of the weird concentration of basketball teams throughout Europe, I'm not sure that geographical separation would work as intended. But following the NBA style of divisions, conferences (but not being restricted within those) is something that is appealing to me. We're Balkan people so I'm not sure if bolstering rivalries any further would be beneficial but in theory it should be fun :p

In the end I generally agree with you that there should be more pathways for teams to compete in the EL (although changing teams ever so often also messes up with the division/conference system I mentioned above) but I also think that because of the poor nature of basketball in Europe there should be teams that should not be excluded even if they perform poorly for some seasons. Obviously I sound super biased because this is exactly the situation of Panathinaikos (:rolleyes:) but I think I would say the same for any of the teams that have been mentioned above. The problem is that unlike football there are only a handful of teams that care so removing them would create less interesting (in terms of viewership) games which I can see creating an avalanche effect of less tickets, TV money etc so then everyone is affected (even the stronger teams) and we still have to rely on rich people pouring money.

Also one final note is that wealth correlates heavily with success so it's not like poor team like AEK will show up with their 2 million budget and go on to win. That simply won't happen (often enough).

Edgar I completely disagree about Berlin, Paris, and London filling up their arenas. This year I went to Berlin and it was half Pao fans :p No matter how big London is, people simply don't care about basketball. I can actually see Serbian, Greek, Lithuanian immigrants filling up the arena when their teams comes to play, rather than English people. I can't speak about Paris, but I do hope that they'll have cheap season tickets if I'm here next year :) I'll help them get fans :p
 
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