Eurobasket 2025

[Shawshank2]

Turkey had tallent both in 2019 and 2022 and why they lost those 2 won endings vs Usa and France? I feel they miss defence, togetherness and leadership.

I can imagine Larkin playing for himself, Sengun playing for himself with zero togetherness ,with very little defence.

Who is Turkey defenders who will be ready to sacrifise their bodies just to have a chance to slow down great offensive players?


Looking at Germany NT 2022-2024 they had very unique switchable defenders in Bonga,M.Wagner,Theis,Thieman . Those 4 dont care they even score a point,but they will work their ass in defence and have great size and mobility + all 4 can make long shot.

Offence was created by 2 world class stars in Schroder and F.Wagner + have elite shooter in Obst + decent 6th men offensive boost Maodo

In Germany NT i see real team,that pieces fit and makes sense.



Turkey NT i see random offensive players thrown together. (LTU NT have same problem our main player dont fit together)

Every good team needs mix of offence and defence.


France have huge size and great athletism elite defensive team
Serbia have like 3-4 real defensive dogs
Germany have huge size switchable defenders
Canada have nba athlets defensive pitbulls and was really good last 2 summers
Usa when they want to and is pressed they can hold anybody under 10pts in 1 querter.
Spain have super smart zone defensive schemes,but they just dont have no offence anymore to win medal.

We can talk all we want about shooting and offence,but in order to slow down 2020s modern offences team need to have 3-4 real defenders in top 9 rotation.


Like you as fan dont understand why such players like D.Giedraitis/Butkevicius or serbians Dobric/Avramovic types is very useful to many teams I feel that your NT dont get how important defence is and makes no effort create seriuos one and finishing in 10-15th places last 15 years.

Relying only on offence yes team can beat good opponnet on good shooting day,but without good defence NT isnt winning multiple playoofs games.

 

[Toruko2]

Turkey had tallent both in 2019 and 2022?
​

Well, no. 2019 we had a decrepit team with Semih Erden as our main big, who unexpectedly overperformed in that tournament and Sanli was not even close to what he is playing rn. The only asset we had back than copmpared to today was an aged Ersan Ilyasova

why they lost those 2 won endings vs Usa and France

The reason is simple and we talked about it yesterday. 2019 we technically won the game against the USA but after an unsportsmanlike foul of Miles Turner on Dogus Balbay he managed to throw 0/2 and the US team had to foul again and Cedi Osman threw again 0/2. Thats why I am saying that a star player in the EL is better than a role player in the NBA. You have to finish games regularly if you want to cope with that pressure.

I feel they miss defence, togetherness and leadership.

You nailed it!. Our main talents of the 95-97 generations Osman and Korkmaz couldnt make their break outs but they were able to stay for a long time in the NBA but had small roles. Since then we tried to fill that gap with Emir Preldzic 2014, Bobby Dixon 2015, nobody 2017, Wilbekin 2019 and Larkin 2022 but they were either injured within the tournament or not available from the start.

Our main problem since 2013 Eurobakset in Slovenia was overall quality as well as a solid guard. Even a Kalnietis would have been luxury for us. From 2014 to 2018 Turkish teams had huge budgets and they saw nothing else than success but the Turkish players had no place to develop and we are a very poor basketball country when it comes to raising guard.

This is the leadership part. We truly lacked defense and we also lacked players who are ready to give everything on the court. One reason was always the lack of Turkish players on EL level. You have to fight every game in EL games another reason is the lack of quality and lack of preparation before main tournaments.

Our optimizm now comes from players like Sengun, Bona and EL players like Biberovic and even Sanli. These guys will wage wars in 2025 and raise the energy of the team.

I can imagine Larkin playing for himself, Sengun playing for himself with zero togetherness ,with very little defence.

You are wrong here. Larkin showed 2022 that he is the right guy for the team. He is a very good and underrated play maker. Unfortunately, he got injured during the tournament and couldnt play against France, which we had won for sure with him. Sengun will be on war mode. He has been talking for two years about Eurobasket 25 and he is a team player. Unlike 2022 his body is ready to compete rn.

Looking at Germany NT 2022-2024 they had very unique switchable defenders in Bonga,M.Wagner,Theis,Thieman . Those 4 dont care they even score a point,but they will work their ass in defence and have great size and mobility + all 4 can make long shot.

Its true that we dont have that many defenders on the perimeter but we will have Adem Bona and he is more than all the guys you menitioned above. Adem Bona is going to lift our defense on two levels just by himself. Additionally, Sengun has shown that he can be a very solid defender by himself with a solid surrounding but the identity of our team is and remains offense.

Offence was created by 2 world class stars in Schroder and F.Wagner + have elite shooter in Obst + decent 6th men offensive boost Maodo

Germany is actually a good comparison to Turkey. Turkey will have an elite shooter with Biberovic and an elite big man in Sengun. The only guy we cant compare with is Dennis Schroder but I hope that a ready Shane Larkin could come close to him but the Turkish team is not as deep as a German team.

Turkey NT i see random offensive players thrown together. (LTU NT have same problem our main player dont fit together)

Every good team needs mix of offence and defence.
​

I explained it above.

We can talk all we want about shooting and offence,but in order to slow down 2020s modern offences team need to have 3-4 real defenders in top 9 rotation.

Sure! Defense is important.

Like you as fan dont understand why such players like D.Giedraitis/Butkevicius or serbians Dobric/Avramovic types is very useful to many teams I feel that your NT dont get how important defence is and makes no effort create seriuos one and finishing in 10-15th places last 15 years.​

Its not that they dont know it. They just didnt have the players who played those roles in the EL. You have your Zalgiris and no matter how talentless and mediocre LTU players are your main focus is to play with them no matter what. It is the awareness of a basketball country that we lack but like I said if we are able to gather all our main players together it is actually a top 5-6 team.

I understand your concerns but this time it is going to be different.

 

[Shawshank2]

In my opinion Larkin at 32old having his worst euroleague season and he is small guard and below average defender in my eyes,especially at 32 old age.

Sengun is bad defender like Sabonis. Good Teams gonna invite Sengun+Larkin tandem and say play please pikenrool defence.


Im asking again who is Turkey NT defenders?

if your NT will go all in with offence I dont believe in such team to win multiple playoofs games.


Who is captain,vocal leader on this turkish NT? who will grab guys and remind them dont give up when things will go badly?

 

[Toruko2]

Sengun is bad defender like Sabonis. Good Teams gonna invite Sengun+Larkin tandem and say play please pikenrool defence.
​

Sengun is not a bad defender. He is not great but surely not as bad as a Sabonis. Larkin if ready is one of the best defenders in terms of ball pressure and surely not a bad defender. Sometimes he gets caught by bigger guards in post defense but this is not a big problem. Larkin just needs to be ready.

Im asking again who is Turkey NT defenders?

Adem Bona, Cedi Osman, Sehmus Hazer, Kenan Sipahi are our best defensive guys.

if your NT will go all in with offence I dont believe in such team to win multiple playoofs games.

Quarter final is a must for this team. If we meet Serbia in the quarter finals and we lose I am ok with it but the bar is on the semi finals.

Who is captain,vocal leader on this turkish NT? who will grab guys and remind them dont give up when things will go badly?

Our best player is Sengun and our go to guard is Larkin. He will decide and he is enough. He just needs to be ready physically. We need high energy guys and there arent better guys than Sengun, Osman or Bona.

 

[Shawshank2]

at 32 i dont buy he is good defender at pressuring the ball. Larkin at 29 in 2022 and 2025 Larkin at 32 is diffrent players.

Little guys ages very fast after 30 old in basketball.

Sengun is bad in defence compared what is good defenders in fiba. .Even Sabonis can give him 25pts like evry second time . Thats why neither of them can stop each other


If Osman at 30 is defender so even Lithuania have 6 such level defenders.

Not seeing perimeter and wing defenders thats red flag.



Forget Serbia or France with no defence your NT will have their hands full with anybody from top 12 in emotional playoofs 1/8 game.

 

[Toruko2]

at 32 i dont buy he is good defender at pressuring the ball. Larkin at 29 in 2022 and 2025 Larkin at 32 is diffrent players.
​

Well thats the point. You dont expect him to be ready and I hope he will. I am pretty sure that he is eager to give something back but he is unfortunately often injured. He must be at least on 80%

Sengun is bad in defence compared what is good defenders in fiba. .Even Sabonis can give him 25pts like evry second time . Thats why neither of them can stop each other
​

​Actually there is no comparison between Sabonis and Sengun on the defensive end. I dont want to sound like he is great but he is a class better than Sabonis on the defensive end. Energy wise both cant be compared at all. Sengun is a winner type player. Thats the reason why Houston is second ranked in the west and Sacremento fights for a play in spot.

Forget Serbia or France with no defence your NT will have their hands full with anybody from top 12 in emotional playoofs 1/8 game.

Lets wait and see.

If Osman at 30 is defender so even Lithuania have 6 such level defenders.

I dont think that LTU has a guy who could start in a team like Panathinaikos. Osman is a fairly capable defender. Unfortunately he has been our go to guy in the offense but the key word is "Bona" here.

Not seeing perimeter and wing defenders thats red flag.

Thats not correct.

 

[Shawshank2]

Last year healthy Grigonis played in Panathinaikos 20minutes and average 9pts points in 41 games .Osman is 18min 8pts euroleague player this season in 29 games. You talking about him like he is 18pts player .

Both Osman and Larkin having bad seasons,i believe it because of age. Larkin small guard at 32 i get why,Osman at 30 but he looks "heavy" and step slower than i remember him from early 2020s.



Sengun in Rockets around have athletic wings like Brooks and Amen Thompson and tough defensive minded coach. Sengun is weak link in Rockets defence (and will be attacked in playoofs) he just have elite defenders around

In Turkey NT Sengun will be around 32 old ageing little guard, 30old Osman and Korkmaz

This lineup will be really bad defensively in fiba and orientated only on offence. I repeat i dont believe in teams who dont play real defence to win multiple playoofs games



Bona is 22 old youngster with no fiba experience and that cant shoot at all. Made 0 ! 3ponters in 47 games this season. So Turkey plan is to play such clumsy non shooting big near Sengun ?

 

[Toruko2]

Last year healthy Grigonis played in Panathinaikos 20minutes and average 9pts points in 41 games .Osman is 18min 8pts euroleague player this season in 29 games. You talking about him like he is 18pts player ​

Osman started the season bad because he was signed very late. He was never a 18 points guy although he has those games. Grigonis played those minutes because there were not better guys than him. Now, he wont have those minutes. Grigonis is not at the level that he could possibly play a major role for a contending team.

He might be heavier than you remembered him but he is still a very solid defender. He shows it every week.

Both Osman and Larkin having bad seasons,i believe it because of age. Larkin small guard at 32 i get why,Osman at 30 but he looks "heavy" and step slower than i remember him from early 2020s.

Its not because of the age. Larkin had two injuries within the season. He still is one of the fastest guard in the EL. If he is slow Calathes and Sloukas for example must be dead by now. There are not many guards who could cause Osman problems on one vs. one.

Sengun in Rockets around have athletic wings like Brooks and Amen Thompson and tough defensive minded coach. Sengun is weak link in Rockets defence (and will be attacked in playoofs) he just have elite defenders around
​

This is surely correct but he is still a way better defender than Sabonis. He does not show it every game because the rs consists of 82 games. You can see it clearly if you take a look at his first 20 games.

In Turkey NT Sengun will be around 32 old ageing little guard, 30old Osman and Korkmaz ​

This would be still better than the most lineups in the Eurobasket. Korkmaz is born 97 btw and I am pretty sure that we are going to start with Biberovic.

This lineup will be really bad defensively in fiba and orientated only on offence. I repeat i dont believe in teams who dont play real defence to win multiple playoofs games

The weak chain in this lineup of yours would be Furkan Korkmaz. He is really bad on the defensive end but there are better alternatives.
Osman is not a bad defender, Larkin is actually a very solid defender if he is ready, Sengun is a much better defender than his three years younger version of 2022, we will most likely have Bona on our roster.

This is surely a big upgrade compared to 2022.

Bona is 22 old youngster with no fiba experience and that cant shoot at all. Made 0 ! 3ponters in 47 games this season. So Turkey plan is to play such clumsy non shooting big near Sengun ?

We dont expect from Bona to play like Jordan. It is enough when he gave us intense 15 minutes. His major role will be to protect the rim alongside being a lob target and attack close outs here and there. We know that hell make mistakes here and there but he is still a major asset when it comes to crucial defenses.

 

[Shawshank2]

You said no Lithuanian couldnt play on poa level team and i shown recent example where ltu player played on same production like Osman this season.

Yes it's because of age both cases in my eyes . They having by far worst seasons and look on court same like both lost a step.

More often Injuries happen because is ageing and getting heavier for big size guards it's directly goes because of age


Defence with top 4 players will be realy bad that why I don't buy Turkey as semifinalist at all


Is better chance Turkey again collapse in 1/8 as always than make semifinal with such chaotic looking defence.


Turkey better win now in 2025 because how Larkin and Osman looking now at 30-32 age .

I predict they will be only shadows of themselfs in 2027-2028 to their best versions.
​

 

[Toruko2]

You said no Lithuanian couldnt play on poa level team and i shown recent example where ltu player played on same production like Osman this season.

Grigonis overperformed in Zalgiris, went to CSKA and couldnt deliver and PAO was similar although he made ok games in the rs but he was horrible in the playoffs and I even didnt remember seeing him in the final four games. Papapetrou took his place and this tells a lot. The times of strong Lithuanian players in the EL are over when a Siskauskas, Stombergas, Seibutis etc. played. You see most of the LTU coming back after a season having played for contenting teams. Ulanovas in Fenerbahce, Brazdeikis for Oly, Grigonis for CSKA etc.

Yes it's because of age both cases in my eyes . They having by far worst seasons and look on court same like both lost a step.

They are still top 20 players in Europe and the Turkish roster has depth.

More often Injuries happen because is ageing and getting heavier for big size guards it's directly goes because of age

Sure but this all does not matter when you are ready for a two weeks tournament.

Defence with top 4 players will be realy bad that why I don't buy Turkey as semifinalist at all

I dont think so.

Is better chance Turkey again collapse in 1/8 as always than make semifinal with such chaotic looking defence.

No, it wont happen this time because the team is too strong for that. Serbia will be too strong and a 1/4 Serbia would be ver tough to beat, France with Wembanyama would be a serious problem but I dont see him playing. I have loads of Respect for the Latvian team with Porzingis and I consider the German team stronger and more balanced. The last three are beatable. I dont see any stronger team in that tournament.

The least bar will be set on the quarter finals but the main goal is semi finals.

Turkey better win now in 2025 because how Larkin and Osman looking now at 30-32 age .

Larkin can be replaced easily. In the worst case we would naturalize a younger play maker but I am pretty sure that well have a good EL level play maker by then. Osman will be a good bench guy who gives 10-15 minutes and its enough. We have tons of young guys who could replace him.

I predict they will be only shadows of themselfs in 2027-2028 to their best versions.

Like I said, it does not matter.

 

[Shawshank2]

Toruko

im saying facts Grigonis production wasnt not worse than Osman this season in regular season marathon of 30+ games. Thats why i repeating Osman looks heavy to eye test and his stats on Grigonis level. Only salary is twice as big


I dont think Osman is top 20 player how he plays this season at all. Only for Turkey fans maybe he is but not foreigner fans.

Osman with 8,1 pts is 94th leading scorer in euroleague after 29 games .How exactly is that top 20 player in europe?


Larkin he was top 5 player in euroleague easily in 2022. This season he is not even top 10 player and half of time injured.Because for small guard at 32+ to play on such speeds body starting to break


Thats why im saying they are both ageing and best years is behind them. Turkey better win in 2025.

 

[Toruko2]

im saying facts Grigonis production wasnt not worse than Osman this season in regular season marathon of 30+ games. Thats why i repeating Osman looks heavy to eye test and his stats on Grigonis level. Only salary is twice as big ​

Osman could have 0 points and is still a better player than Grigonis and its obvious that he is the better player. Osman might be slower than he was its still not a problem in Europe.

Grigonis should stay and show that he can compete with Osman for minutes. There is a reason why Osman salary is twice as big. Its simple, he is the better player

I dont think Osman is top 20 player how he plays this season at all. Only for Turkey fans maybe he is but not foreigner fans.

I cant think of many small forwards who are supposedly more impactful than him. If top 20 is dabatable top 30 is sure. How would you rank your beloved Butkevicius?

Larkin he was top 5 player in euroleague easily in 2022. This season he is not even top 10 player and half of time injured.Because for small guard at 32+ to play on such speeds body starting to break

top 15 is also ok. Mirotic fell with his body on his leg but hell be ready for Eurobasket. I am pretty sure

Thats why im saying they are both ageing and best years is behind them. Turkey better win in 2025.

Turkey will win 2025 and also further on.

 

[Toruko2]

I looked up the last 11 games of Osman btw. he has a 13 points average. His season goes to the right direction. I dont know what you expected but it is clear that he is not a Nunn type player.

 

[Shawshank2]

I dont compare their career or levels.Im comparing their production on the floor now in 2024 and 2025 not in 2021. What you dont get it?


Osman is not top 20 euroleague player right now in 2025 with mediocre 8pts average.stats. Stop dreaming and put your biased turkish fans glasses down and look objectively how manny great players is in euroleague.

Every player is getting older and getting worse.Dont need to imagine that Osman or Larkin is robots and dont get worse in their 30s...


Turkey will win in 2025 and further ? i dont believe because they never did that !

in 2025 Turkish 2 best guards is having bad seasons and both is in their 30s in first year of new olympic cycle.

And i have to believe they will be really good and win (what they never did in fiba in their 20s ) for entire 4 years olympic cycle when they showing decline signs now in first year ?


Im sorry i dont believe

 

[Toruko2]

I dont compare their career or levels.Im comparing their production on the floor now in 2024 and 2025 not in 2021. What you dont get it?

Oh, I got you, you just dont get my point thats all.

Osman is not top 20 euroleague player right now in 2025 with mediocre 8pts average.stats. Stop dreaming and put your biased turkish fans glasses down and look objectively how manny great players is in euroleague.

Important is not how he started but how he ends the season. I am pretty ok with his development within the season.

Every player is getting older and getting worse.Dont need to imagine that Osman or Larkin is robots and dont get worse in their 30s... ​

They might get old and worse but they are still useful. Larkin will probably never reach his level in the covid season but 75% of that is still more than enough.

Turkey will win in 2025 and further ? i dont believe because they never did that !

Yeah sure. Its up to the team to prove their worth. I dont need you to believe but I wont let you guys question my optimizm either.

in 2025 Turkish 2 best guards is having bad seasons and both is in their 30s in first year of new olympic cycle. And i have to believe they will be really good and win (what they never did in fiba in their 20s ) for entire 4 years olympic cycle when they showing decline signs now in first year ?

The reason for optimizm is not Larkin or Osman by himself but the depth and the composition of the team and it will get better in time.

Im sorry i dont believe ​

No problem. Its enough that I believe it

 

[Toruko2]

Tomorrow on 14 p.m. CET... I am so excited. I really hope it will be Polands group with Slovenia. XD

 

[Toruko2]

Of course we had to be drawn in Group A to Latvia and of course it had to be Serbia from seed one but despite having both of these two teams I am happy because Group B is weak.

 

[Serbian_Layup2]

Interesting group for Serbia. Couple of strong games to keep us on the edge. I prefer it that way instead of just walking through easy opponents and feel too relaxed.

 

[Toruko2]

Interesting group for Serbia. Couple of strong games to keep us on the edge. I prefer it that way instead of just walking through easy opponents and feel too relaxed.

Same here but it didnt have to be Serbia tbh.

 

[Shawshank2]

Serbia wins group A, Germany wins group B

1/8 matchups Turkey/Latvia vs Lithuania/Finland


To beat Latvia in Riga wont be easy Toruko believe me.

So i see very realistic scenerio in 1/8 A3 vs B2 Turkey vs Lithuania


But yeah Lithuania NT is weak last 10 years Turkey will be big favourites