EL2022/23 - The Final Four (Kaunas)

[Serbian_Layup2]

OK, it's premature claim, but how about completely out of hand Rising Star award? Madar was worse in regular season and way worse in playoffs than Jokubaitis, f.e. What kinda of standard is that? I think Partizan standard.

Thanks for the link.

Let's assume Jokubaitis was robbed of Rising Star award, what in the hell Serbian/Eastern "standards" have got anything to do with that? Jokić got robbed of third straight MVP award because of tendentious racial narratives from some media members in USA...How do you call these Western standards then? Don't make bad generalizations like that.

As for Jokubaitis, not a big deal that he didn't win this year because he had already won it last year, which was a lot better and more impactful season for him than this year. And Bodiroga is bad because he didn't give it to Jokubaitis. Come on. And he surely isn't the one alone who decides who is winning those awards at all levels.

 

[Straight forward2]

Fair, it's premature claim, but a first symptom that a little bit of good old values my be on the map for EL with Bodiroga - "I'm the boss here and I decide" culture. Just an assumption thus far, but it has to be said. It doesn't matter whenever Jokubaitis already had that award, the criterion should be clear. Jokubaitis is way better player ATM than Madar, it's barely a comparison. Madar is galaxies away from Jokubaitis BB culture, I dear to claim. He;s ahead in terms of reading the game from those 22yo guards, both NBA and Europe.

Actually most fans make fun of NBA because of that decision. Specially how Jokic dominates NBA in playoffs. I do think Americans have and very obvious bias regarding their own players. They want Americans, preferably black American player cause NBA is black guys league generally, to be the best in the league. You can see how Barkley underrated Wemby It's the same story as with Doncic. Wemby gonna be absolute freak in NBA if he will stay healthy.

 

[Serbian_Layup2]

Fair, it's premature claim, but a first symptom that a little bit of good old values my be on the map for EL with Bodiroga - "I'm the boss here and I decide" culture. Just an assumption thus far, but it has to be said. It doesn't matter whenever Jokubaitis already had that award, the criterion should be clear. Jokubaitis is way better player ATM than Madar, it's barely a comparison. Madar is galaxies away from Jokubaitis BB culture, I dear to claim. He;s ahead in terms of reading the game from those 22yo guards, both NBA and Europe.

Actually most fans make fun of NBA because of that decision. Specially how Jokic dominates NBA in playoffs. I do think Americans have and very obvious bias regarding their own players. They want Americans, preferably black American player cause NBA is black guys league generally, to be the best in the league. You can see how Barkley underrated Wemby It's the same story as with Doncic. Wemby gonna be absolute freak in NBA if he will stay healthy.

I don't know how you came to this conclusion. Have I missed something or did Bodiroga say or do something to make you believe it's like that? I mean, I'm not advocating for Bodiroga, just pointing out that you are jumping to conclusions without any valid ground. And I'm pretty sure Bodiroga is not weighing in whether Jokubaitis or Madar should get the award, there are lots of other people in Euroleague from Eastern and Western Europe who are impacting those decisions. He was the boss as a player though, I give you that

 

[papaluk4mvp2]

The answer is clear,Joku is not any more a RISING star,
he got the trophy,he is a part of a big team with a role and well known to everybody.
It is not his first year in Euroleugue,more likely a veteran i would say

 

[Killer Bob2]

Let's assume Jokubaitis was robbed of Rising Star award, what in the hell Serbian/Eastern "standards" have got anything to do with that? Jokić got robbed of third straight MVP award because of tendentious racial narratives from some media members in USA...How do you call these Western standards then? Don't make bad generalizations like that.

As for Jokubaitis, not a big deal that he didn't win this year because he had already won it last year, which was a lot better and more impactful season for him than this year. And Bodiroga is bad because he didn't give it to Jokubaitis. Come on. And he surely isn't the one alone who decides who is winning those awards at all levels.

It's not that simple. MJ has won only 1 MVP before he has won his first ring. And he never won 3 in a row. Nba is a business, those awards are tactical decisions many times. Sure Jokic was the best, but Embiid as the best scorer was near enough to gave him the award. Jokic doesn't even care about that, he wants just to win a title and all doubters will shut up.

Kendrick Perkins is being destroyed by Jokic in playoffs.

 

[Serbian_Layup2]

It's not that simple. MJ has won only 1 MVP before he has won his first ring. And he never won 3 in a row. Nba is a business, those awards are tactical decisions many times. Sure Jokic was the best, but Embiid as the best scorer was near enough to gave him the award. Jokic doesn't even care about that, he wants just to win a title and all doubters will shut up.

Kendrick Perkins is being destroyed by Jokic in playoffs.

The point was not to make bad generalizations and single out one country or region based on actions of some individuals or organizations because there have been and still will be countless cases of injustices towards other people due to racial, ethnic, national, political differences as well as inequality of treatment everywhere around the world whether you are black or white, American or Russian, East or West.

There was a racial narrative in the media regarding Jokić among black people and had some effect in the voting, but who cares. Jokić gave zero thought about that. You could say that Embiid deserved it after all, as well as Giannis, but playoffs is different story though.

 

[paspalj2]

As Bob and Layup said, Jokic was not given the MVP for non basketball reasons. Specifically because a 3rd straight MVP would put him in a unique situation above legends of the sport such as Black Jesus himself.

As much as Embiid crumbled in the playoffs, he still had a very dominant, MVP worthy season (although I believe Giannis was better than him. And Jokic was better than both of them). The racial remarks that seemingly shifted the narrative were only circumstantial in my opinion. Perkins doesn’t hold that kind of power.

The “Serbian/Eastern Europe standards” comment was unsavory and I hope the poster has changed his mind.

 

[papaluk4mvp2]

MVP of the regular season has no value at all with the defence they are playing.
Seems like a season with friendly matches before the real championship(Playoffs) starts.
The numbers have no value at all,triple double is easy to make even players of medium level.
Generally i wonder why somebody is watching this NBA circus of the regular season.

 

[Killer Bob2]

MVP of the regular season has no value at all with the defence they are playing.
Seems like a season with friendly matches before the real championship(Playoffs) starts.
The numbers have no value at all,triple double is easy to make even players of medium level.
Generally i wonder why somebody is watching this NBA circus of the regular season.

It depends which matches you're watching. 82 games per team in 5 months are too much of course, but you have numerous great games when big rivals are playing each other each week. I would say that they should doing something right, if they create that much of revenue. Sarver has bought Suns in 2004 for 400 mio and sold few months ago for 4 billion. Not bad. And Suns are not exactly the best franchise.

Warrios have generated 765 mio revenue last year.

On the other hand we have European clubs, which all are making big losses every year, and nobody in Europe cares about club basketball, while football is blooming.

Yes I know, basketball in Europe is more pure and etc. But man you can't have Vezenkov as MVP and expect that people will watch that.

 

[papaluk4mvp2]

The fact that they are making money it is different story.Americans are experts.In the soccer also they are making a lot of money,however the level of football we are watcing is not even close the european.Actually the problem of the regular season is real because Silver is trying all the time to make it more attractive,first eith the play in tournament now they are talking about a cup.Also there is big scepticism with the all star game which every year is more circus. At the end all is matter of taste,i prefer to watch Vezenkov vs James instead of a regular season match of Nba where Giannis makes a parade to score,Luca shoots from Slovenia and Lebron makes the GM .
Of course Nba playoff is a different story and we are watching real basketball

 

[Killer Bob2]

The fact that they are making money it is different story.Americans are experts.In the soccer also they are making a lot of money,however the level of football we are watcing is not even close the european.Actually the problem of the regular season is real because Silver is trying all the time to make it more attractive,first eith the play in tournament now they are talking about a cup.Also there is big scepticism with the all star game which every year is more circus. At the end all is matter of taste,i prefer to watch Vezenkov vs James instead of a regular season match of Nba where Giannis makes a parade to score,Luca shoots from Slovenia and Lebron makes the GM .
Of course Nba playoff is a different story and we are watching real basketball

It's not different story, it's the most important story. You need to be profitable to can afford best players, because only them will bring you audience you want.

European basketball will always have some people who will watch it, but that's not enough for making enough revenue to survive and have interesting product. People want to watch stars, Europeans, if possible, not 3rd tier Americans.

How many people outside Greece and France, and even in France not many, do you believe cares about first semis? How many people in Europe have heard about Vezenkov?

In USA best prospects don't necessarily go to College anymore, but play 1 year in G-league, making this league more interesting. If someday they decide to make that league more attractive and pay players more, Europe won't see even those Americans that are playing in Europe now.

Tell me, would best 5 football leagues and Champions league generate that much revenue, if we would be watching some average football players?

Nba is maybe not the best but good enough product, mostly because all the stars are playing there. And they know how to marketing them.

 

[Killer Bob2]

I see that expectations for Real winning first match are very high.

 

[ronmercer802]

It's not different story, it's the most important story. You need to be profitable to can afford best players, because only them will bring you audience you want.

European basketball will always have some people who will watch it, but that's not enough for making enough revenue to survive and have interesting product. People want to watch stars, Europeans, if possible, not 3rd tier Americans.

How many people outside Greece and France, and even in France not many, do you believe cares about first semis? How many people in Europe have heard about Vezenkov?

In USA best prospects don't necessarily go to College anymore, but play 1 year in G-league, making this league more interesting. If someday they decide to make that league more attractive and pay players more, Europe won't see even those Americans that are playing in Europe now.

Tell me, would best 5 football leagues and Champions league generate that much revenue, if we would be watching some average football players?

Nba is maybe not the best but good enough product, mostly because all the stars are playing there. And they know how to marketing them.

Regarding Europe all these considerations are true but this happens with any other sport excluding soccer.

No other sport is able to generate revenues. Even the ones who see the best players partecipating (volley for example). There are some local exceptions, handball in Germany, rugby in UK and France, and that's all.


Instead the United States are capable of making profit out of 4 sports regularly, am. football, baseball, basket and ice hockey.

 

[Jazz2]

Regarding Europe all these considerations are true but this happens with any other sport excluding soccer.

No other sport is able to generate revenues. Even the ones who see the best players partecipating (volley for example). There are some local exceptions, handball in Germany, rugby in UK and France, and that's all.


Instead the United States are capable of making profit out of 4 sports regularly, am. football, baseball, basket and ice hockey.

Many of the major Rugby Unions clubs in the UK are financially unsustainable.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/two-more-gallagher-premiership-clubs-in-financial-peril-reports/

 

[Killer Bob2]

Regarding Europe all these considerations are true but this happens with any other sport excluding soccer.

No other sport is able to generate revenues. Even the ones who see the best players partecipating (volley for example). There are some local exceptions, handball in Germany, rugby in UK and France, and that's all.


Instead the United States are capable of making profit out of 4 sports regularly, am. football, baseball, basket and ice hockey.

Might be, but numbers in basketball are brutal. I remember Real in 2018 season, winning everything possible, and still being - 20 mio. And basketball is worse position than other sports, because they directly compete for players with Nba. You're still watching great volleyball and handball players in Europe.

 

[Serbian_Layup2]

The only way for this game to become interesting is Mike James catching fire from all spots on the floor

 

[Killer Bob2]

I don't know, Oly looks pretty underwhelming.

 

[Serbian_Layup2]

Oly playing like some junior team at ANGT. They have to be better than this.

 

[Serbian_Layup2]

Euroleague during 90's and early 2000's was absolutely great. Back then, NBA was still closed and suspicious for all non American players so it was a lot more difficult to get to the NBA. Concentration of talent in Europe was really big. I remember iconic rivalry between Danilovic and Myers for example, and so many other truly great players back in the time, even though I was too young to really enjoy it. Euroleague will never get to that level again probably. Now, players with much less talent can hope to get NBA deal. I mean, Gabriel Deck left Real in the middle of the season to spend most games with Oklahoma not even on the bench. NBA market is consuming everything and there is nothing Euroleague can do about it.

 

[Killer Bob2]

Euroleague during 90's and early 2000's was absolutely great. Back then, NBA was still closed and suspicious for all non American players so it was a lot more difficult to get to the NBA. Concentration of talent in Europe was really big. I remember iconic rivalry between Danilovic and Myers for example, and so many other truly great players back in the time, even though I was too young to really enjoy it. Euroleague will never get to that level again probably. Now, players with much less talent can hope to get NBA deal. I mean, Gabriel Deck left Real in the middle of the season to spend most games with Oklahoma not even on the bench. NBA market is consuming everything and there is nothing Euroleague can do about it.

Best players in Europe once were Drazen, Sabonis, Kukoc...Now MVP is spot up shooter.