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East Asia Super League

  • Thread starter Thread starter Brown Bones2
  • Start date Start date
Prime Westbrook racked up a lot of assists but was considered a ball hog. Steph takes ridiculous shots, shoots even if he's not open and has less assists but he's never considered a ballhog. Assist numbers alone does not paint the whole picture.

The difference with Steph is that shooting is the team identity and he is the shooter. And that system identity has produced championships.
 
Silent Killer said:
you are trying to make KT sonicboom and SMB on the same boat where isnt the case.. hammonds plays within the system whereas anosike isnt..

can you call a 39 pt guy a ballhog who plays within a system? whereas a 34 pt guy who handles the ball most of the time and didnt play within the system the coach is trying to implement?

this is what i’m saying you are trying things in the same boat as the league’s practice and the pba team to other leagues practice where isnt the case..

and why fans call anosike ballhog and hammonds isnt?
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What system gives the ball to import if all else fails and lets him create the shot? Good ball movement? They can pass the ball around, but it's still one-on-one moves counted by analytics if the shotmaker needs to dribble several times and make several moves to score. That happened to KT, so they didn't record an assist. It didn't lead to an easy basket, and the player needed to do a lot more moves and counters to score.

They should have more assists if the other players were open because of the plays, and an assist should be counted when it creates quick shots. Since they had fewer assists, the imports needed to make a lot more one-on-one moves to make the basket.

The thing that you mistook as good ball movement is the passing around the ball. That is not an effective ball movement as it didn't lead to any opening. What happens if there no opening they just give the ball to their import to score. That's their last-minute offense doing that when all else fail. Similar thing happeGilas against Brazil in 2nd half. It not that Gilas wasn't passing the ball, it was that their plays wasn't working that resulted to one on one plays for their last option in offense. In KT case, its fortunate for them their import was more effective on one on one plays.

This is the summary of my contention, if they played like a team that didn't go to their import to score on one on one plays then they would have more assists.
 
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Metta said:
Prime Westbrook racked up a lot of assists but was considered a ball hog. Steph takes ridiculous shots, shoots even if he's not open and has less assists but he's never considered a ballhog. Assist numbers alone does not paint the whole picture.

The difference with Steph is that shooting is the team identity and he is the shooter. And that system identity has produced championships.
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You are right. The offense flowed through Westbrook that's why he had a lot of assists and he was effective in getting the defense to focus on him so it opened his other teammates for an assist. Steph played through the system as there are a lot more scorers and that's why assists per game were 21 for Oklahoma while GS was 30 in 2016-17. 9 more assists which is my contention if KT didn't go to their import for one on one plays (which is the same with SMC) they would have more assists.
 
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The point is about assists not giving the complete picture when it comes to individual players, ballhogs and even team quality. Not all assists are created equal.

Top 3 in assists last season are Pacers, Spurs and Warriors. Champion Celtics were at 15.

High team assist numbers usually indicate an offensively focused team. But defense wins championships. The poster boy for Systematic Teams - Duncan Spurs - were always towards the middle and lower in terms of team assists rankings.

The Warrior dynasty are revolutionary outliers who required several unicorns...goat shooter Steph, 3-and-D god Klay, assist-and-D enforcer Draymond and plain unicorn KD.
 
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Metta said:
The point is about assists not giving the complete picture when it comes to individual players, ballhogs and even team quality. Not all assists are created equal.

Top 3 in assists last season are Pacers, Spurs and Warriors. Champion Celtics were at 15.

High team assist numbers usually indicate an offensively focused team. But defense wins championships. The poster boy for Systematic Teams - Duncan Spurs - were always towards the middle and lower in terms of team assists rankings.

The Warrior dynasty are revolutionary outliers who required several unicorns...goat shooter Steph, 3-and-D god Klay, assist-and-D enforcer Draymond and plain unicorn KD.
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You mention Westbrook so I took his MVP stats as comparison. I never said because you are a high assist team you will win. Like Rain or Shine, Northport and Ginebra top teams in Assists last season they didn't win a single championship. Kindly read my summary again.
 
zairex said:
You mention Westbrook so I took his MVP stats as comparison. I never said because you are a high assist team you will win. Like Rain or Shine, Northport and Ginebra top teams in Assists last season they didn't win a single championship. Kindly read my summary again.
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zairex said:
Ask your friends then why KT has one less assist than SMB if KT didn't went to their import majority of the time. For context, Japan vs France, Japan had only had 16 assist in that game. Didn't their guards went one on one too
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So what is your point about assists? To use the number when it's convenient for your argument.

I reiterate my point...assists by itself does not paint a clear picture so you can't accurately use it as a barometer of team/system quality.
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Metta said:
So what is your point about assists? To use the number when it's convenient for your argument.

I reiterate my point...assists by itself does not paint a clear picture so you can't accurately use it as a barometer of team/system quality.
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I guess you didn't read my previous messages to Silent Killer. I advise you to do so before inserting yourself to the conversation. Kindly check on what I wrote and its not just about the assist number.
 
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Looking forward to Meralco - Ryukyu. Durham will want to prove something against the team that cut him.
 
zairex said:
This is the summary of my contention, if they played like a team that didn't go to their import to score on one on one plays then they would have more assists.
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Well, I did read that, you yourself said it's a summary. Around all your word salad, you're equating assist numbers to "playing as a team."

I guess the Duncan Spurs didn't play as a team.

There's such a thing as a player outmatching his defender that the primary strategy is to milk that mismatch. Now once the other team compensates, then you progress on to your other schemes. But if the team can't solve that primary strategy, then don't fix what ain't broken.

Kindly read your comments again so I don't have to insert myself and then you have to do verbal gymnastics. I see you keep editing all your replies to me, I hope you're not feeling too much pressure, I'm just genuinely curious about your mindset.
 
Imagine SMB handled by either Baldwin, Tim cone or Toroman? They can win multiple grandslams with that kind of line up plus very good coach...
 
Metta said:
Well, I did read that, you yourself said it's a summary. Around all your word salad, you're equating assist numbers to "playing as a team."

I guess the Duncan Spurs didn't play as a team.

There's such a thing as a player outmatching his defender that the primary strategy is to milk that mismatch. Now once the other team compensates, then you progress on to your other schemes. But if the team can't solve that primary strategy, then don't fix what ain't broken.

Kindly read your comments again so I don't have to insert myself and then you have to do verbal gymnastics. I see you keep editing all your replies to me, I hope you're not feeling too much pressure, I'm just genuinely curious about your mindset.
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Don't worry about me. You worry too much. Even my editing is due to auto correct and you concentrate too much on things that is not essential.

The Duncan take I agree. Same thing I say about when teams use the same strategy with JF or Durant with GSW but alot here thinks it's a bad strategy because the ball didn't move. As you stated, it sometimes the most efficient way of scoring and double teaming these players will lead to open shot for other teammates from the 3pts. Which is more points per possession.

Which still make my statement of both KT and SMC relied on one on one play and and Silent Killer statement that only SMC was doing it for me not accurate
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Tournament like this shows how unskilled our local players are. Except for Junmar & Perez, everyone is a dud. The San Mig game made me realize how good Junamr was during their Championship era. Pogoy is 3x better than lassiter, prime ross is the equivalent of current rosales/enciso, tautuaa/brondial are b*ms, and cruz is a waste of a roster spot!
 
zairex said:
Don't worry about me. You worry too much. Even my editing is due to auto correct and you concentrate too much on things that is not essential.

The Duncan take I agree. Same thing I say about when teams use the same strategy with JF or Durant with GSW but alot here thinks it's a bad strategy because the ball didn't move. As you stated, it sometimes the most efficient way of scoring and double teaming these players will lead to open shot for other teammates from the 3pts. Which is more points per possession.

Which still make my statement of both KT and SMC relied on one on one play and and Silent Killer statement that only SMC was doing it for me not accurate
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See what happened there...I actually gave you a better case for your argument than your "assist numbers = playing as a team" (which is why I inserted myself because that is inaccurate and now you also agree).

Big caveat though...W's are the ultimate stat when it comes to assessing strategies.

If there is any single vanilla stat that you can cherrypick and sort of gauge a team's quality, that would be rebounds for me. It can signify advantages in size, athleticism, physicality and effort which usually leads to W's. Hence the saying, "rebounds win games, defense wins championships."
 
Metta said:
See what happened there...I actually gave you a better case for your argument than your "assist numbers = playing as a team" (which is why I inserted myself because that is inaccurate and now you also agree).

Big caveat though...W's are the ultimate stat when it comes to assessing strategies.

If there is any single vanilla stat that you can cherrypick and sort of gauge a team's quality, that would be rebounds for me. It can signify advantages in size, athleticism, physicality and effort which usually leads to W's. Hence the saying, "rebounds win games, defense wins championships."
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Again, it was not just about assists. For full context, please read the whole conversation, especially the one in which I disagreed with Silent Killer.
 
The Macau Black Bears have signed Malaysian Forward Chun-Hong Ting and Palestinian Shooting Guard Jamal Mayali.
 
Allien Maliksi is integral to Meralco, if hes not there they need another scorer
 
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