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Demarr2
Guest
BC Kalev lost to Žalgiris 78-74.
Žalgiris earned 37 free-throws and Kalev 7. It's hard to judge the refereeing without seeing the game though - so fellow Lithuanians who saw the game, any objective comments?
Žalgiris earned 37 free-throws and Kalev 7. It's hard to judge the refereeing without seeing the game though - so fellow Lithuanians who saw the game, any objective comments?
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Richey6662
Guest
Baltic Basketball League games 2008/2009
Baltic Basketball League games 2008/2009
Today Zalgiris beat BC Kalev/Cramo 78:74, but what was the most ridiculous fact about the game is that Zalgiris got 21/37 free throws against Kalev's 5/7. Would be logical, if one team is clearly a lot better and winning by 30, but it was not the case here.
Game card is here: http://www.bbl.net/index.php/b19sYW...9OCZmdXNlYWN0aW9uPWdhbWVzLm1haW4mZ19pZD0xMjg4
As you should know in Baltic league the referees are always from host countries, not from neutral, this has been problem for years, but for lack of money it has never been changed.
Kalev was in lead most of the game, up by 12 eight minutes before the end, but in the last quarter got ran over, while Zalgiris suddenly stopped fouling..
EDIT: Zalgiris had 16 free throws last quarter, Kalev had 0, just a datapoint, not that I am saying anything, it may very well be, that every Kalev player just got totally tired
It is not the first time Kalev has lost games against Zalgiris in the last minute in Lithuania, the same happened 2006 and 2007 at the beginning of the season.
I gave my best NOT to say, what I really think happened...I hope Kalev coach Nenad Vucinic will file a protest.
Baltic Basketball League games 2008/2009
Today Zalgiris beat BC Kalev/Cramo 78:74, but what was the most ridiculous fact about the game is that Zalgiris got 21/37 free throws against Kalev's 5/7. Would be logical, if one team is clearly a lot better and winning by 30, but it was not the case here.
Game card is here: http://www.bbl.net/index.php/b19sYW...9OCZmdXNlYWN0aW9uPWdhbWVzLm1haW4mZ19pZD0xMjg4
As you should know in Baltic league the referees are always from host countries, not from neutral, this has been problem for years, but for lack of money it has never been changed.
Kalev was in lead most of the game, up by 12 eight minutes before the end, but in the last quarter got ran over, while Zalgiris suddenly stopped fouling..
EDIT: Zalgiris had 16 free throws last quarter, Kalev had 0, just a datapoint, not that I am saying anything, it may very well be, that every Kalev player just got totally tired
It is not the first time Kalev has lost games against Zalgiris in the last minute in Lithuania, the same happened 2006 and 2007 at the beginning of the season.
I gave my best NOT to say, what I really think happened...I hope Kalev coach Nenad Vucinic will file a protest.
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Straight forward2
Guest
I believe you didn't see the game (just like me). I don't think it's wise to judge the job of refs from stats 
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LuDux2
Guest
I don't know if referees played part in deciding outcome, but..
Shots attempted from outside the key
Kalev: 49
Zalgiris: 28
Zalgiris__________________________Kalev
Shots attempted from outside the key
Kalev: 49
Zalgiris: 28
Zalgiris__________________________Kalev
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Troll2
Guest
Straight forward said:I believe you didn't see the game (just like me). I don't think it's wise to judge the job of refs from stats
Wise or not, having home ref's is just stupid and I'm getting bored of watching the same thing every year. BBL is good practice to get ready for europe games and good for youth to get better but other than that it's quite pointless.
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Richey6662
Guest
I sure do agree, that Zalgiris tried to score more under the basket and hence more free-throws, I could reluctantly accept freethrows 30:15 to Zalgiris, but to think that every Kalev player's defence was a foul, while Zalgiris players never touched the opponents, except bumping into them few times is laughable, especially last quarter.
Can anyone show me similar stats from any Euroleague or ULEB Cup game from last year, where score was close, but freethrows 37:7 for one team??? I bet you cannot, cause there aint all referees from home team country...
Can anyone show me similar stats from any Euroleague or ULEB Cup game from last year, where score was close, but freethrows 37:7 for one team??? I bet you cannot, cause there aint all referees from home team country...
LuDux said:I don't know if referees played part in deciding outcome, but..
Shots attempted from outside the key
Kalev: 49
Zalgiris: 28
Zalgiris__________________________Kalev
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Sss2
Guest
Hm... comitted fouls - Zalgiris 19, Kalev 26 
. Good Lord !!!!
... but why bother. Of course we stole the game. We always do that against Estonian teams (because, contrary to the Latvians, they are not brothers to us) and it would be a real Armageddon if we would have lost this game.
Please, wait for at least one word from Kalev coach/player or something like that in order to speculate...
. Good Lord !!!!... but why bother. Of course we stole the game. We always do that against Estonian teams (because, contrary to the Latvians, they are not brothers to us
) and it would be a real Armageddon if we would have lost this game.Please, wait for at least one word from Kalev coach/player or something like that in order to speculate...
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Demarr2
Guest
Sss said:Hm... comitted fouls - Zalgiris 19, Kalev 26
... but why bother. Of course we stole the game. We always do that against Estonian teams (because, contrary to the Latvians, they are not brothers to us
Please, wait for at least one word from Kalev coach/player or something like that in order to speculate...
''During the last 3 minutes, we lost our rhythm on the offence and didn't communicate enough.''
That's what Nenad Vucinic said. He didn't mention referees at all.
And why bring the whole ''brothers theme'' to this topic? Just to brag?
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Richey6662
Guest
Too bad BBL is not able to show games even thru web camera, although even then we probably would disagre if certain situations are fouls.
But well, if Estonian club wins Rytas or Zalgiris at home, while getting 30 freethrows more, 16 alone in last quarter with home referees, I'd be first to say - "I don't want such a crooked victory. It means nothing to me. I want fair and square victory or loss in Euro competition with balanced officiating." Where's your nobility, Liths? Cannot you even admit that disparity is surprisingly big, even when there's an explanation?
And I bet you Liths would be going crazy, if you'd get such freethrows disparity against Pana or CSKA at their home court EVEN with neutral referees.
Too bad you cannot see unbalanced officiating, when it occurs among your own. And trust me, last year were several times, when Kalev and Rock players said about referees: "it is impossible to win in Lithuania last minute, they just find a phantom foul and dont whistle any of Lith team's".
http://www.sloleht.ee/index.aspx?id=207033
http://www.sloleht.ee/index.aspx?id=208485 (Martin Muursepp, Estonian best 90's player (NBA,CSKA) ain't a man of many words, but this time he decided to speak up)
Nothing changed, referees are still local, so Vucinic probably didnt see any point in talking about it.
Of course, Zalgiris is way better club than Kalev, of course they will beat Kalev by 15-20 point in couple of months, when they're in Euroleague form, but what makes me bitter, that even this small insignificant win our club could get in the beginning of season, is stolen ruthlessly.
But well, if Estonian club wins Rytas or Zalgiris at home, while getting 30 freethrows more, 16 alone in last quarter with home referees, I'd be first to say - "I don't want such a crooked victory. It means nothing to me. I want fair and square victory or loss in Euro competition with balanced officiating." Where's your nobility, Liths? Cannot you even admit that disparity is surprisingly big, even when there's an explanation?
And I bet you Liths would be going crazy, if you'd get such freethrows disparity against Pana or CSKA at their home court EVEN with neutral referees.
Too bad you cannot see unbalanced officiating, when it occurs among your own. And trust me, last year were several times, when Kalev and Rock players said about referees: "it is impossible to win in Lithuania last minute, they just find a phantom foul and dont whistle any of Lith team's".
http://www.sloleht.ee/index.aspx?id=207033
http://www.sloleht.ee/index.aspx?id=208485 (Martin Muursepp, Estonian best 90's player (NBA,CSKA) ain't a man of many words, but this time he decided to speak up)
Nothing changed, referees are still local, so Vucinic probably didnt see any point in talking about it.
Of course, Zalgiris is way better club than Kalev, of course they will beat Kalev by 15-20 point in couple of months, when they're in Euroleague form, but what makes me bitter, that even this small insignificant win our club could get in the beginning of season, is stolen ruthlessly.
Sss said:Hm... comitted fouls - Zalgiris 19, Kalev 26
... but why bother. Of course we stole the game. We always do that against Estonian teams (because, contrary to the Latvians, they are not brothers to us
Please, wait for at least one word from Kalev coach/player or something like that in order to speculate...
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Straight forward2
Guest
nobility? I'm sure that if this game had clear bias from refs some of IB users will tell the true, unless no-one saw this game here. As for now, it's clear speculation. Personally, from that what i saw in BBL last few year i can't say that any team from Latvia or Estonia would have a lot of hope in competition against Žalgiris or Rytas. I mean it's naive to say that Lithuanians teams are winning only because of refs 
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Richey6662
Guest
Oh man, you dont even read what I am writing. I never had problem admitting Lithuanian and Latvian clubs are way better than Estonian ones, it's just sensations never happen, when strong local club plays with home referees against weaker foreign one, especially in Lithuania, but sure there have been complaints against Estonian referees too! We never had 37:7 disparity in favor of local club, though.
Baltic Basketball League is the only international European league with no neutral referees, dont you think it's stupid and strange?
Baltic Basketball League is the only international European league with no neutral referees, dont you think it's stupid and strange?
Straight forward said:nobility? I'm sure that if this game had clear bias from refs some of IB users will tell the true, unless no-one saw this game here. As for now, it's clear speculation. Personally, from that what i saw in BBL last few year i can't say that any team from Latvia or Estonia would have a lot of hope in competition against Žalgiris or Rytas. I mean it's naive to say that Lithuanians teams are winning only because of refs
Mindozas6
Moderator
Richey666 said:
Man, don't be too paranoiac with those free-throws. Better look at commited fouls: 26:19!!! Something wrong with that too? Most (16 of 37) of ft was made in last qtr just because Zalgiris started to play aggressively. Maciulis shoot 6 of them and if you follow his play it won't surprise you, cause when he starts to play in the paint, it's very hard to stop him without a foul. Most of all others ft was made by Brown, a player who mostly takes responsibility in the end, who is hardly stoppable without foul on him.
And as for refs, I see that T.Jasevicius was the main ref and it's clearly not the one who's on Zalgiris side
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Straight forward2
Guest
"Valmiera"- "Lietuvos Rytas" 92:98
"Lietuvos rytas": S.Babrauskas 18, M.Gecevičius ir B.Milisavljevičius - po 14, D.Zavackas ir M.Petravičius - po 13, M.Prekevičius ir M.Anisimovas - po 9, M.Lukauskis 5, J.Sinica 3
"Valmiera": I.Bankevics 25, R.Clarkas 23, R.Sirsnins 11 (8 assists)
Seems like BBL started with nice and competitive games. Unfortunately, no-one broadcasted these games.
"Lietuvos rytas": S.Babrauskas 18, M.Gecevičius ir B.Milisavljevičius - po 14, D.Zavackas ir M.Petravičius - po 13, M.Prekevičius ir M.Anisimovas - po 9, M.Lukauskis 5, J.Sinica 3
"Valmiera": I.Bankevics 25, R.Clarkas 23, R.Sirsnins 11 (8 assists)
Seems like BBL started with nice and competitive games. Unfortunately, no-one broadcasted these games.
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Richey6662
Guest
Broadcasting is way worse than last year, no broadcasts in Estonian TV channels neither. I can watch Lithuanian and Latvian TV on satellite, but nothing there too... Economic crisis?
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cikladols2
Guest
Richey666 said:
Today Barons vs Siaulai will be broadcasted on LTV7
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adebisi2
Guest
Barons 87 - 71 Šiauliai (20:12, 18:17, 28:21, 21:21)
Barons: D.Alexander 22, A.Škėlė (5 to) and G.Gustas (5 as) 14
Šiauliai: V.Praškevičius 23, G.Kadžiulis 14 (5 as), G.Maceina 9
Barons: D.Alexander 22, A.Škėlė (5 to) and G.Gustas (5 as) 14
Šiauliai: V.Praškevičius 23, G.Kadžiulis 14 (5 as), G.Maceina 9
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cikladols2
Guest
Question to estonians. TTU started Challenge Cup quite good, but before season some of you said, "dont let them play in BBL CC, they'll lose every game at least -20". What's happened with that team?
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Demarr2
Guest
cikladols said:
I actually don't know why some people said so.
Last season they were really weak under the basket and suffered some heavy losses but this year they've signed Kristjan Makke (205cm) and Joosep Toome (206cm).
Other notable signings were Reimo Tamm and Joosep Pokla.
The team in overall consists of youngsters and coach Aivar Kuusmaa said that their target is just to get some new experience in BBL CC.
BBL netcasting isn't working, so Rock-Rytas score updates: http://sport.postimees.ee/?id=38497