Anadolu Efes 2017-18

[iskoch2]

They do. Sponsorship payments decrease tax basis, which in turn cuts taxes to be paid.

yeah, spending $15-20m to get 4-5m tax cut is a good idea really...

http://www.gib.gov.tr/fileadmin/user_upload/Tebligler/5520/10.html

as i know, in pro sports, sponsors cut %50 of the expenses from yearly profit.

for example profit 100m tl, expenses for the sports 20m tl.
government takes taxes from 90m tl.
so, when a company spends 20m tl for the sports,
it means 1.5-2m tl tax cut...

 

[Jazz2]

A corporation exists for profit. Plain and simple. The reason why they support sports is either they see profit in it, or the owner has a tendency towards that sport.
Most of the investments can be covered through "marketing expenses etc" so they provide the corporation some sort of financial advantage.
Once the perceived "benefit" vanishes...so does the corporation. We have seen this through Tofas, Eczacibasi, Pasabahce, Beslen et cetera in Turkey.

A club exists for the sport. Plain and simple. They are not money or profit driven, but rather success driven.
I do not see Fenerbahce Olympiakos, CSKA, or Barcelona vanishing in 50 years.

Cant say that for Efes and the likes though.

I mostly agree and can't argue that any EL clubs are profit driven as such. But it's hard to look at the top 30 or so richest football clubs in the world and say they aren't driven by profit. They can't have success without profit, but also can't have profit without success.
Look at the family that own Manchester United- are they football fans or businessmen?

 

[Cuneyt2]

I mostly agree and can't argue that any EL clubs are profit driven as such. But it's hard to look at the top 30 or so richest football clubs in the world and say they aren't driven by profit. They can't have success without profit, but also can't have profit without success.
Look at the family that own Manchester United- are they football fans or businessmen?

Good point. Let me clarify my thoughts.

I agree and support clubs to transform to corporations like ManU and NBA type organizations.
The "product" of that organization, its commodity...is sports, and I am all for that.

When you think about corporations that "support" sports though, I feel a bit different.
They use sports as a tool to sell their products may it be beer, cars, cosmetics, or consumer goods.

I think the first type is the future of these clubs, where the second type should transform to sponsors and support.

 

[vivo2]

I mostly agree and can't argue that any EL clubs are profit driven as such. But it's hard to look at the top 30 or so richest football clubs in the world and say they aren't driven by profit. They can't have success without profit, but also can't have profit without success.
Look at the family that own Manchester United- are they football fans or businessmen?

Manchester United have owners. Of course they look for their profit, while also trying to be successful, because success will being them fame and more money.

Fenerbahçe and many more clubs in Turkey and Europe are essentially governed by public (elections and stuff). Which means ideally the management looks for success, and uses profit for more success.

That being said; we have a problem sending our elected president Yıldırım But I am still against ownership structure.

By the way @Levenspiel, yeah disgrace comment was more my negative feelings towards Efes talking rather than solid arguments. Multiple quoting is a pain in mobile so I'm answering from here.

 

[Tevfik19072]

yeah sure. it's best to ignore your messages actually. better for one's own sanity.

You didn't need to tell me that I ignore your messages too. But it's hard to find Efes fans these days so don't lose your motivation.

 

[Jazz2]

Good point. Let me clarify my thoughts.

I agree and support clubs to transform to corporations like ManU and NBA type organizations.
The "product" of that organization, its commodity...is sports, and I am all for that.

When you think about corporations that "support" sports though, I feel a bit different.
They use sports as a tool to sell their products may it be beer, cars, cosmetics, or consumer goods.

I think the first type is the future of these clubs, where the second type should transform to sponsors and support.

You make the distinction really well and there are clearly practical and ideological differences no matter how commercialised sports in general becomes.

Still, I know this sounds really cynical but it seems more and more that particularly with football the sport itself is a trojan horse for so many different companies to sell their products. The amount of commercial partners the richest teams have is staggering and some are even owned or part owned by conglomerates.

That being said; we have a problem sending our elected president Yıldırım But I am still against ownership structure.

I am too!

Btw, any Efes fan stumbling into this thread looking for discussion on transfer rumours etc will be disappointed so far. Interesting discussion though.

 

[janketa2]

That being said; we have a problem sending our elected president Yıldırım But I am still against ownership structure.

Could you explain please a little bit this about Yildrim?

 

[vivo2]

Could you explain please a little bit this about Yildrim?

What exactly do you want to know? His crazy acts were thoroughly discussed here in IBN in the past weeks.

 

[janketa2]

What exactly do you want to know? His crazy acts were thoroughly discussed here in IBN in the past weeks.

Nothing, just I am kindly ask you for your attitude? You don't like him is that so? He should leave?

 

[vivo2]

Nothing, just I am kindly ask you for your attitude? You don't like him is that so? He should leave?

He should have left years ago, yes. He is like those Roman dictators, starting out well with public support but then descending into tyranny and damaging the empire.

 

[SaliH2]

What Roman emperors... you mean like Arap Erdo.

 

[janketa2]

He should have left years ago, yes. He is like those Roman dictators, starting out well with public support but then descending into tyranny and damaging the empire.

I don't want to argue and will try to select words
Who cares if he is dictator or if he slaps someone here or there? Would you like someone like Efes dictator instead of him and finish every season with QF as the ultimate achievement? If you want him to leave then you probably want Obradovic to leave too, they are team.
I don't know how much you know Obradovic but he is type who is linked to person with the name and character, when it doesn't work he leaves. He stays only there where clear vision is present, and money of course. At the end President was first person to whom he thanked after title. Seems that he knows something that someones here don't understand.
There is no place for revolution in basketball or any sport where results are obvious. Che Guevara speaks are maybe suitable for Efes not for Fener.
A little more gratitude would not harm regardless of personal hate.
Long live to "dictator" and thank him for the title

 

[Drexler2]

C'mon now... What difference ? Corporate teams are still corporate teams. Efes was successful because Fener, GS and BJK didn't care about basketball much in the early years of the league. Only difference is that Efes is older than Ulker as a corporate team. And because of that Efes won a europe cup in the past which is equal to BJK's Eurochallenge cup in these days, but when you look at it, it's not a big success for Turkey anymore. We've a Eurocup champion, then much better ; Euroleague finalist and Euroleague champion now.

Ulker could win a Eurochallenge cup easily when you consider their investments in those days, they were successfully being at the Euroleage Top 16 every year. After Fenerbahce and other investments there was no need for corporate teams such as Efes in Turkey, because we've already successful teams on Europe, people cheered for Efes in the past because there were no Fener or BJK or GS at the time, well they were but they didn't care much about basketball, and now, they care.

People ignored Tuncay Ozilhan's childish behaviours in the past because we had no competitive european basketball team on the league, but now things are changed. Efes literally become a toy club for Tuncay Ozilhan's fantasies, nothing more.

I think you are either trolling or you are a super young-fella that doesn't care about researching the past before speaking your mind.

Yes, Ulker unarguably sucked big time in Europe cuz, top 16 every year, doesn't mean a thing when you had one of the biggest budgets in EL. I remember Ulker transferring the most hyped players every year and they kept failing. If Ulker and Efes are same to you, How many players Ulker youth has raised? Maybe Omer Asik or Zaza Pachulia. who else? You are also saying that EuroChallange and EuroCup are more valuable than the Korac KUP. Did you ever check the rosters and the teams that Efes has faced? Fucka,Bodiroga,Gentile,Myers,Djordevic and many more. Can you name a notable team or a notable player from EuroCh or
EuroCUP?? If you want you can go and check the winning rosters of KORAC and compare with the NON-EL European Cups of Today. Back in those days, A Turkish Cup winning a trophy In Europe was just a dream that you couldn't even think of. For your information, I'm a die hard Fener Fan that hated Efes in domestic competitions back in these days, cuz Efes was way superior and they also had the federations's support through the referees. There are many games Fener has fought valiantly but lost due to bad refereeing. Moreover, There were also years that Fener invested heavily in basketball but couldn't beat Efes Pilsen's consistency with AKA Dream Teams established through a sudden investment.

 

[Tevfik19072]

I think you are either trolling or you are a super young-fella that doesn't care about researching the past before speaking your mind.
.

I think you're either trolling or you are a super young-fella doesn't know the difference between a club and a corporate team.

. If Ulker and Efes are same to you, How many players Ulker youth has raised? Maybe Omer Asik or Zaza Pachulia. who else?

You need more ? Ulker only invested a few years, and they raised already a couple of great players like them. If they could invest earlier they would raise more. It's all about the investment.

You are also saying that EuroChallange and EuroCup are more valuable than the Korac KUP. Did you ever check the rosters and the teams that Efes has faced? Fucka,Bodiroga,Gentile,Myers,Djordevic and many more. Can you name a notable team or a notable player from EuroCh or
EuroCUP?? If you want you can go and check the winning rosters of KORAC and compare with the NON-EL European Cups of Today. Back in those days, A Turkish Cup winning a trophy In Europe was just a dream that you couldn't even think of. .

What are you talking about ? Korac cup was the third cup in the europe. Rosters or players doesn't change that fact, that's the importance of the cup.

The FIBA Korać Cup was an annual basketball club competition held by FIBA between the 1971–72 and 2001–02 seasons. It was the third-tier level club competition in European basketball, after the FIBA European Champions' Cup (later renamed the EuroLeague) and the FIBA Cup Winners' Cup

It's equal to Eurochallenge right now. It was a dream back in those days because no Turkish team invested in basketball like Efes did. But right now, Efes is equally successful as BJK in basketball, and not even more successful than GS who won the second tier European cup.

For your information, I'm a die hard Fener Fan that hated Efes in domestic competitions back in these days, cuz Efes was way superior and they also had the federations's support through the referees. There are many games Fener has fought valiantly but lost due to bad refereeing. Moreover, There were also years that Fener invested heavily in basketball but couldn't beat Efes Pilsen's consistency with AKA Dream Teams established through a sudden investment.

That doesn't change the fact that Efes has been a corporate team JUST LIKE Ulker. Being more successful, or older doesn't change that fact. You literally implied that Efes shouldn't be compared with Ulker in that regard... Just because of what ? Being more successful and older ? I never denied that. There is no difference between Efes and Ulker.

If you think there is any huge differences between those two, then how the hell Efes didn't even reach to F4 after 2002 ? 14 years investment and not even a single F4 ... Is this your ''successful'' team in the Europe ? And you're telling me Efes is different, no they are not. They are right now, is just a fantasy team for Tuncay Ozilhan, nothing more. Turkey needs no big corporate teams anymore, don't believe that Efes is still the biggest basketball team in Turkey, they are not. They have no professional club management, no basketball saloon, no Euroleage level achievement, no supporters in comparison with FB, GS, BJK or even Trabzon, Karsiyaka. Just Tuncay Ozilhan.

 

[Johnny72]

This topic (and forum in general) is being destroyed by fener fans trolling Efes. I actually feel the for Efes fans.

 

[Drexler2]

I think you're either trolling or you are a super young-fella doesn't know the difference between a club and a corporate team.



You need more ? Ulker only invested a few years, and they raised already a couple of great players like them. If they could invest earlier they would raise more. It's all about the investment.



What are you talking about ? Korac cup was the third cup in the europe. Rosters or players doesn't change that fact, that's the importance of the cup.



It's equal to Eurochallenge right now. It was a dream back in those days because no Turkish team invested in basketball like Efes did. But right now, Efes is equally successful as BJK in basketball, and not even more successful than GS who won the second tier European cup.




That doesn't change the fact that Efes has been a corporate team JUST LIKE Ulker. Being more successful, or older doesn't change that fact. You literally implied that Efes shouldn't be compared with Ulker in that regard... Just because of what ? Being more successful and older ? I never denied that. There is no difference between Efes and Ulker.

If you think there is any huge differences between those two, then how the hell Efes didn't even reach to F4 after 2002 ? 14 years investment and not even a single F4 ... Is this your ''successful'' team in the Europe ? And you're telling me Efes is different, no they are not. They are right now, is just a fantasy team for Tuncay Ozilhan, nothing more. Turkey needs no big corporate teams anymore, don't believe that Efes is still the biggest basketball team in Turkey, they are not. They have no professional club management, no basketball saloon, no Euroleage level achievement, no supporters in comparison with FB, GS, BJK or even Trabzon, Karsiyaka. Just Tuncay Ozilhan.

Yeah Right, Thanks for enlightening me with your vast knowledge..

 

[Cuneyt2]

This topic (and forum in general) is being destroyed by fener fans trolling Efes. I actually feel the for Efes fans.

The butt still hurts eh?

 

[Johnny72]

The butt still hurts eh?

You can make jokes about it but your fellow fans are really destroying this forum. I wasn't even talking about you but about the usual suspects.

 

[Tevfik19072]

Johnny is talking about Turkish clubs more than his own ''supposedly'' team again

 

[iskoch2]

I think you're either trolling or you are a super young-fella doesn't know the difference between a club and a corporate team.



You need more ? Ulker only invested a few years, and they raised already a couple of great players like them. If they could invest earlier they would raise more. It's all about the investment.



What are you talking about ? Korac cup was the third cup in the europe. Rosters or players doesn't change that fact, that's the importance of the cup.



It's equal to Eurochallenge right now. It was a dream back in those days because no Turkish team invested in basketball like Efes did. But right now, Efes is equally successful as BJK in basketball, and not even more successful than GS who won the second tier European cup.




That doesn't change the fact that Efes has been a corporate team JUST LIKE Ulker. Being more successful, or older doesn't change that fact. You literally implied that Efes shouldn't be compared with Ulker in that regard... Just because of what ? Being more successful and older ? I never denied that. There is no difference between Efes and Ulker.

If you think there is any huge differences between those two, then how the hell Efes didn't even reach to F4 after 2002 ? 14 years investment and not even a single F4 ... Is this your ''successful'' team in the Europe ? And you're telling me Efes is different, no they are not. They are right now, is just a fantasy team for Tuncay Ozilhan, nothing more. Turkey needs no big corporate teams anymore, don't believe that Efes is still the biggest basketball team in Turkey, they are not. They have no professional club management, no basketball saloon, no Euroleage level achievement, no supporters in comparison with FB, GS, BJK or even Trabzon, Karsiyaka. Just Tuncay Ozilhan.

look at the most important figures for fener until obradovic era, you will see efes...

ibrahim, mrsic, mirsad, ömer onan, aydın örs...

3 of them efes products but people call them fener legends...