• Since we moved our URL please clear your browsers history and cookies and try logging in again. Thank you and sorry for any inconvenience
  • Since we moved our URL please clear your browsers history and cookies and try logging in again. Thank you and sorry for any inconvenience

Anadolu Efes 2017-18

  • Thread starter Thread starter janketa2
  • Start date Start date
Do you guys think Zalgris or Zvezda or Baskonia should give up? Why should Efes? Galatasaray had almost a similar budget and failed much much harder. I`d like to see the roster Levenspiel suggested. I`d definetely pay for to see it.

Obradovic won`t stay for long in FB, even if he stays until the end of his career, it will be like 10 years. I`m pretty sure most Fener fans will forget about basketball and turn back to football when the success gone. The reason Efes is loved and followed without a crazy fanbase is Turkish players. Efes doesn`t have many fans going to the game. Now imagine the number without Cedi. There wouldn`t be almost any fan going to watch. If he won`t stay next season, Efes will need a new face. Korkmaz can be that face but if he is going too Efes will need a guy like Bitim or Ulubay to build upon. I,d much rather Ulubay since he showed what he can do this season before going to Daçka and he will not go to NBA anytime probably.

As far as merging, after threating Karşıyaka because of whole town voting no in the elections, Pınar might lose the sponsorship. If that would be the case I`d like Efes Karşıyaka as a basketball team actually. Izmir would provide enough fans to Efes a good development program which would also diversify basketball from Istanbul. That`d be the only merging I`d imagine as a win for Efes. Because otherwise they would share the same ending with Ülker which is fading away into oblivion after a few years
 
Levenspiel said:
or maybe field the following team in EL, and do not give a damn despite ending up with a 2-28 season (more likely to be around 10-20):

Wilbekin, Balbay
Korkmaz, Mutaf, Taskiran, Bitim
Osman, Ulubay
Brown, Arar, Demir
Dunston, Kirk, Guven

Not gonna happen. but I'd buy season ticket for Efes if they did, even if I cannot actually go there.
Click to expand...

Only 4 foreigners? You are right, that's not gonna happen.
 
A team representing a company is a disgrace to sports... Just as those Red Bull teams in football. Actually Efes is worse - they are managed worse in every aspect, never ventured into another city than Istanbul (in İzmir they would have a solid fan base by now), they didn't build a gym. They raised some good players while there were 2 players foreigner limit and abused Turkish championship, with total support from the federation and government.
 
Moving Efes to Izmir is good idea. But just like Levenspiel roster, that's not gonna happen too.
 
As a Fener fan, I would say that I don't like Efes and the club was not the reason that I started to follow basketball in late 90's. On the other hand, a strong Efes and rivalry between Efes and Fener is what we need to make each other push for higher levels. If I were in the management, I would go for Saras with 3 years contract and let him rebuild as he likes. For sure the benefits would exceed costs for both. I must also say that Saras is one of my heroes and I would hate to see him as a regular rival's coach.
 
vivo said:
A team representing a company is a disgrace to sports... Just as those Red Bull teams in football. Actually Efes is worse - they are managed worse in every aspect, never ventured into another city than Istanbul (in İzmir they would have a solid fan base by now), they didn't build a gym. They raised some good players while there were 2 players foreigner limit and abused Turkish championship, with total support from the federation and government.
Click to expand...
what do you think of Vakifbank? or Eczacibasi? Was it a disgrace for them to win CEV Champions league 4 times? and other cups and finals? Was Efes's Korac cup a disgrace for Turkish sports? the first ever cup won by a Turkish team in any team sport?

yes, it's weird that company's have teams, but to me it's more weird that those teams have been the leaders in most non-football branches, and then the other big clubs followed.

I think you expected me to respond any way, but I won't go into debate mode. Efes is a company in the end, but did a lot more than just being a company. a bit of gratitude and less of poisonous hate would be nice.
 
Levenspiel said:
what do you think of Vakifbank? or Eczacibasi? Was it a disgrace for them to win CEV Champions league 4 times? and other cups and finals? Was Efes's Korac cup a disgrace for Turkish sports? the first ever cup won by a Turkish team in any team sport?

yes, it's weird that company's have teams, but to me it's more weird that those teams have been the leaders in most non-football branches, and then the other big clubs followed.

I think you expected me to respond any way, but I won't go into debate mode. Efes is a company in the end, but did a lot more than just being a company. a bit of gratitude and less of poisonous hate would be nice.
Click to expand...

Sports teams have clear aims: being successful, promoting that sport and making fans happy. Advertising a brand and creating financial profit by getting rid of taxes shouldn't be the ultimate goal of a team. This is what sponsorship is for. In the past I'll admit company teams did a good job of promoting basketball and volleyball, although that wasn't their purpose. Today, at least in basketball, there is no need for companies to pour millions to teams that almost no one cares about.

We shouldn't criticize company teams because "they were here first"? I disagree. By the way it is not like it was only Efes and no one else, but they were the leaders because we didn't have even remotely close financial power to compete. When the gap was closed, company teams one by one went down.

And "a bit of gratitude" part, well Efes lost remnants of my gratitude after stealing a championship with the cathine incident. Though I guess you'll deny that.
 
vivo said:
Sports teams have clear aims: being successful, promoting that sport and making fans happy. Advertising a brand and creating financial profit by getting rid of taxes shouldn't be the ultimate goal of a team. This is what sponsorship is for. In the past I'll admit company teams did a good job of promoting basketball and volleyball, although that wasn't their purpose. Today, at least in basketball, there is no need for companies to pour millions to teams that almost no one cares about.

We shouldn't criticize company teams because "they were here first"? I disagree. By the way it is not like it was only Efes and no one else, but they were the leaders because we didn't have even remotely close financial power to compete. When the gap was closed, company teams one by one went down.

And "a bit of gratitude" part, well Efes lost remnants of my gratitude after stealing a championship with the cathine incident. Though I guess you'll deny that.
Click to expand...

do you think companies that invest money for the sports cut that amount from taxes?
 
vivo said:
Sports teams have clear aims: being successful, promoting that sport and making fans happy. Advertising a brand and creating financial profit by getting rid of taxes shouldn't be the ultimate goal of a team. This is what sponsorship is for. In the past I'll admit company teams did a good job of promoting basketball and volleyball, although that wasn't their purpose. Today, at least in basketball, there is no need for companies to pour millions to teams that almost no one cares about.

We shouldn't criticize company teams because "they were here first"? I disagree. By the way it is not like it was only Efes and no one else, but they were the leaders because we didn't have even remotely close financial power to compete. When the gap was closed, company teams one by one went down.

And "a bit of gratitude" part, well Efes lost remnants of my gratitude after stealing a championship with the cathine incident. Though I guess you'll deny that.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. Take all NBA teams for example, none is a sports club. They are all franchises, yet they are the most successful in the world. Sports clubs are outdated and will turn into companies one by one, maybe not in the near future but sooner or later it will happen because sports is now a business and because you can't stop change (take Galatasaray for ex, it is now Galatasaray Sportif AŞ., AŞ. being "Joint-stock Company". It is a small step because the club is still not run like a true company). Things change.
 
Izmir would be great for Efes. But Karsiyaka is already there as well, I don't think they would give enough support them in the court. If they could merge with Goztepe though, it would be interesting.
 
vivo said:
Sports teams have clear aims: being successful, promoting that sport and making fans happy. Advertising a brand and creating financial profit by getting rid of taxes shouldn't be the ultimate goal of a team. This is what sponsorship is for. In the past I'll admit company teams did a good job of promoting basketball and volleyball, although that wasn't their purpose. Today, at least in basketball, there is no need for companies to pour millions to teams that almost no one cares about.
Click to expand...
To be honest, I don't know how the companies got to be the sports clubs in Turkey. It would be a great read if someone has published the history of this. But they were not just sponsors, they were/are serious clubs, with dedicated bball management, academies and infrastructure (and very good ones), and long term domestic and international goals. This cannot be reduced to advertisement and taking advantage of tax benefits. It's there, but it must be beyond that.

and taxes... i think FB/GS/BJK/etc should not really bring this up.

vivo said:
We shouldn't criticize company teams because "they were here first"? I disagree. By the way it is not like it was only Efes and no one else, but they were the leaders because we didn't have even remotely close financial power to compete. When the gap was closed, company teams one by one went down.
Click to expand...
No issue in criticizing, even if they were not the first. As a non-involved sympathizer, I take offense on "disgrace" part.
Efes is the subject of discussion, but they're surely not the first. I have differing degrees of sympathy for Eczacibasi, Ulker, Turk Telekom, Banvit, Tofas, etc etc... for what've done for Turkish bball...

vivo said:
And "a bit of gratitude" part, well Efes lost remnants of my gratitude after stealing a championship with the cathine incident. Though I guess you'll deny that.
Click to expand...
"We can neither confirm nor deny the existence of the information requested but, hypothetically, if such data were to exist, the subject matter would be classified, and could not be disclosed."
the information as far as I could remember was not a pleasant one to hear from Efes side, but not sure if there was anything proven. I can only hope they did not cheat.
 
as i know, in pro sports, sponsors cut %50 of the expenses from yearly profit.

for example profit 100m tl, expenses for the sports 20m tl.
government takes taxes from 90m tl.
so, when a company spends 20m tl for the sports,
it means 1.5-2m tl tax cut...
 
It's pretty interesting how things change over the course of the years. in late 80's and 90's, corporate teams were believed to have unfair advantages vs the club teams lacking the resources. Seems like things have changed drastically. According to the feedback from the former coaches and the staff, the biggest problem in Efes is the Chairman and owner Tuncay Ozilhan micromanaging everything and interfering with management and transfer decisions. The board should bring professionals and let them do their jobs. Since the club has enough financial resources, it wouldn't be too hard to find non-mercenary minded players ready to put some balls on the court regardless of the result.I really believe that during the playoff semi finals, some players have decided to take an early vacation. I'm pretty much sure that the attendance&fun enthusiasm will follow if the management style changes...

As for the merger case, Efes Pilsen is Efes Pilsen, The club has a long tradition and cannot be compared with Ulker. Ulker has just popped up from nowhere during a summer and became a colossal failure in Europe despite the local success. Therefore, Efes is still an important basketball brand for Turkey and Europe and shouldn't be allowed to be consumed by a club team.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Drexler said:
As for the merger case, Efes Pilsen is Efes Pilsen, The club has a long tradition and cannot be compared with Ulker. Ulker has just popped up from nowhere during a summer and became a colossal failure in Europe despite the local success.
Click to expand...

C'mon now... What difference ? Corporate teams are still corporate teams. Efes was successful because Fener, GS and BJK didn't care about basketball much in the early years of the league. Only difference is that Efes is older than Ulker as a corporate team. And because of that Efes won a europe cup in the past which is equal to BJK's Eurochallenge cup in these days, but when you look at it, it's not a big success for Turkey anymore. We've a Eurocup champion, then much better ; Euroleague finalist and Euroleague champion now.

Ulker could win a Eurochallenge cup easily when you consider their investments in those days, they were successfully being at the Euroleage Top 16 every year. After Fenerbahce and other investments there was no need for corporate teams such as Efes in Turkey, because we've already successful teams on Europe, people cheered for Efes in the past because there were no Fener or BJK or GS at the time, well they were but they didn't care much about basketball, and now, they care.

People ignored Tuncay Ozilhan's childish behaviours in the past because we had no competitive european basketball team on the league, but now things are changed. Efes literally become a toy club for Tuncay Ozilhan's fantasies, nothing more.
 
Tevfik1907 said:
C'mon now... What difference ? Corporate teams are still corporate teams. Efes was successful because Fener, GS and BJK didn't care about basketball much in the early years of the league. Only difference is that Efes is older than Ulker as a corporate team. And because of that Efes won a europe cup in the past which is equal to BJK's Eurochallenge cup in these days, but when you look at it, it's not a big success for Turkey anymore. We've a Eurocup champion, then much better ; Euroleague finalist and Euroleague champion now.

Ulker could win a Eurochallenge cup easily when you consider their investments in those days, they were successfully being at the Euroleage Top 16 every year. After Fenerbahce and other investments there was no need for corporate teams such as Efes in Turkey, because we've already successful teams on Europe, people cheered for Efes in the past because there were no Fener or BJK or GS at the time, well they were but they didn't care much about basketball, and now, they care.

People ignored Tuncay Ozilhan's childish behaviours in the past because we had no competitive european basketball team on the league, but now things are changed. Efes literally become a toy club for Tuncay Ozilhan's fantasies, nothing more.
Click to expand...
:D yeah sure. it's best to ignore your messages actually. better for one's own sanity.
 
A corporation exists for profit. Plain and simple. The reason why they support sports is either they see profit in it, or the owner has a tendency towards that sport.
Most of the investments can be covered through "marketing expenses etc" so they provide the corporation some sort of financial advantage.
Once the perceived "benefit" vanishes...so does the corporation. We have seen this through Tofas, Eczacibasi, Pasabahce, Beslen et cetera in Turkey.

A club exists for the sport. Plain and simple. They are not money or profit driven, but rather success driven.
I do not see Fenerbahce Olympiakos, CSKA, or Barcelona vanishing in 50 years.

Cant say that for Efes and the likes though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top