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Straight forward2
Guest
I agree with usagre. I think Kalnietis already proved he should be in (even if we discussed about Chomicius here a lot). Talent wise Ilgauskas maybe could take JV's spot at the moment, but that's about it.
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Hepcat2
Guest
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auris12
Guest
There might have been a discussion regarding Kalnietis vs Chomicius , but, alas , many of you just weren't there alive or consent
when Chomicius has started . Some foreign dudes , chiming in? Please .
Chomicius woildl never make top 12 in my book. But. he will be always above Kalnietis .
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usagre2
Guest
I thought this was about selecting players from the Lithuanian national team not the Soviet national team. Chomicius was over the hill by then. Mid 80's Chomicius is a different story.
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Straight forward2
Guest
So was he better overall player than Kalnietis, do you think? (having in mind NT performances in the first place I guess).
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usagre2
Guest
Yeah I would take Kalnietis this decade over Chomicius 1992-1995 version. Kalnietis has always played his best basketball for the national team as opposed to clubs. But as a player I would prefer Chomicius 1982-1986 over him. Better scorer and overall player in my opinion.
Mindozas6
Moderator
Exactly. In 1992 or later Chomicius was simply past his prime, even tho in 1992 he did a lot to help us to win bronze. Of course Kalnietis may look better as player than Chomicius was in 1992-95, especially if people didn't see Valdas back in his prime, so people might consider Kalnietis as an option, depends on criterias. But overall Chomicius was better player. People might get misleaded cause he never was a main option in offense, there were always Sabas+Kurtis in Zalgiris, Sabas+Marcela and other in Soviet NT,so it was a great achievement to make it to such NT alone. Lot of great players were left out. So he was in shadow a bit everywhere, but he was a player, who could score a lot when it was needed, I mean A LOT, cause there were games with Zalgiris in Soviet champ, European cups (not only vs scrubs), when he scored even 40-50pts. He had high bball IQ, was verstile in offense, physically gifted, could defend really well too and what I liked a lot, guy was a real fighter on court
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LuDux2
Guest
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usagre2
Guest
He was clutch too. Like game winner against USA at '85 world university games and furious comeback attempt in 1986 world championships final against USA in which he spearheaded with his three point shooting.
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usagre2
Guest
That's fucking hilarious. He's one of my favorites now. I can only imagine the look on the refs face when he looked over and saw him on the ground like that.
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auris12
Guest
Ah , OK then , it is a good point actually . In this case , Kalnietis is clear favourite . Then again, Chomicius was born in 1959 , so he was already 33 in Barcelona .
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Babajas3
Guest
Thank you for your insights Mindozas! I've always wondered about some of the more famous Sabonis/Marciulionis generation of players and lacked a clear sense of their basketball skills. This makes me wonder whether Jovaisa deserves a mention here since he was a fairly important player for Zalgiris and, at one point, played for Soviet Union NT (where only the best of the best competed in international tournaments). He also played for Team Lietuva in 1992, but was way past his prime then. I would be curious to get a sense of how he compared to, say, Siskauskas in his prime, taking into account that Lithuania's borders were closed at the time and he couldn't sign a contract with a foreign team.
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LuDux2
Guest
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LuDux2
Guest
Jovaisa was first Lithuanian after M.Paulauskas to make USSR NT, played in 6 final tournaments (1978, 81, 82, 83, 85, 87), 2nd in scoring in 1983 EC, 9.0 points in 45 games
(1984 olympic qualification tournament included)
Chomicius ....9 trn, 64 gm, 644 pt, 10.1 ppg
Sabonis ......7 trn, 51 gm, 799 pt, 15.7 ppg
Jovaisa ......6 trn, 45 gm, 407 pt, _9.0 ppg
Kurtinaitis...5 trn, 38 gm, 516 pt, 13.6 ppg
Marciulionis..3 trn, 20 gm, 360 pt, 18.0 ppg
(1984 olympic qualification tournament included)
Chomicius ....9 trn, 64 gm, 644 pt, 10.1 ppg
Sabonis ......7 trn, 51 gm, 799 pt, 15.7 ppg
Jovaisa ......6 trn, 45 gm, 407 pt, _9.0 ppg
Kurtinaitis...5 trn, 38 gm, 516 pt, 13.6 ppg
Marciulionis..3 trn, 20 gm, 360 pt, 18.0 ppg
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auris12
Guest
This is a picture from Maksvytis home town 3on3 tournament ,right ?
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auris12
Guest
I am not Mindozas , by no means , but maybe my insight can help you too .
If you care to watch any game from that time (early 80 ), that might be as shocking as to watching black and white movie for the very first time if you are young and used to them FX as given .
As for example - i was re watching some Zalgiris _CSKA game ,where golden Zalgiris was to win the game , and lets say ,with 1 minutes to go Zalgiris is leading by 6 or 7 points . So i knew the final result ,still ... You know exactly how this game would be played nowadays ,right ? Foul after foul , free throws one after another . And nothing like that happened . CSKA players were running like a silly rabbits while Zalgiris players were passing the ball around and not a single foul was committed .
So , if some people can consider Frank Lubin as a candidate to be included for this team , i might as well to say that Jovaisa is one of them good guys too .
Two books that comes to my mind for you to read is M.Paulauskas and Jovaisa autobiographies .
Anyways , why do i think he should be considered ? Because he was playing type of the game no one was playing at the time . He was Siskauskas way before people could understood importance of such . As in example above. Different times .
He could score , he had immensely long hands good for steals and to defend taller players , and most importantly , he was smart on the court . Make no mistake , he was our best player from time when Paulauskas retired and Sabonis came to Zalgiris .
Another thing is that he played until he was like 40?
No one before him went that far , where being 30 was like death sentence . In soviet times , being 30 plus was like being 38/39 plus in NBA nowadays . Very rare .
So , in the end , Jovaisa was great at his peak . And he was good for another 15 years afterwards . He is in our hall of fame , that is for sure . Maybe we should keep this topic such as well.
Mindozas6
Moderator
I don't know which game you're talking about, but it might be cause back in those days there was a rule - if you were fouled, you could either shoot FTs, either just continue possesion, so for defending team, which was losing, there was no point in making a foul, obviously none were goin' to shoot FTs, so they had to try to steal the ball
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Shawshank2
Guest
If we are choosing best lithuanian national team players of all time Kalnietis should be higher than Chomicius no doubt.But as player individually Chomicius in his prime or Kalnietis is his prime i have to say i would choose Chomicius.But saying that how Mantas ir playing for our national team i would find a place for him in top 12 players of all time.Something with Mantas and NT ,when he is with Lietuva jersey he is playing basketball as one of the best pg in entire Europe.And it happend not once,not twice so he would have my vote in making all time LTU nt team over Chomicius.Mantas would be my backup up PG.
But in clubs competions Valdemaras was better player and fantastic defender,maybe even the best lithuanias perimeter defender of all time.
But in clubs competions Valdemaras was better player and fantastic defender,maybe even the best lithuanias perimeter defender of all time.
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auris12
Guest
Very good point , I completely forgot about that .
But then again , with the twist of modern attitude added to these kind of situations, then the loosing team could have still fouled as soon as possible to stop the clock ,hoping either for free throws (as they do now ) or to force a turnover ,even if the clock was reset in the next possession . Rinse and repeat .