All time NT

[CoachZ2]

My humble contribution to the topic:

PG Jasikevicius
SG Marciulionis
SF Siskauskas
PF Songaila
C Sabonis

Personal Favorite: Macijauskas

Regarding Kleiza, I liked his game but I think that his 3-4 years of high level basketball are not really a great career for some other greats from Lithuania. I picked Songaila due to a more consistency and length of career.

 

[Babajas3]

Top 3 by positions Ltu nt 1992-2016

1.Jasikevicius
2.Kalnietis
3.Chomicius

SG
1.Marciulionis
2.Macijauskas
3.Kurtinaitis/Kaukenas

SF
1.Siskauskas
2.Karnisovas
3.Stombergas

PF
1.Kleiza
2.Songaila
3.Ksistof

C
1.Sabonis
2.Valanciunas
3.Einikis

All time starting 5

Jasikevicius 2003, Marciulionis 1992, Siskauskas 2007, Kleiza 2010, Sabonis 1995 versions

Shawshank, can you elaborate on why you listed Kurtinaitis here? I don't know much about him because I was born in the 90s, but my dad, who frequented Halė back in the day, tells me he was a laid-back dude who rarely gave 100% on the court (that's why he remained injury-free for most of his career). That didn't seem to be the case with Kaukenas, who worked relentlessly on court getting to an open spot or beating his defenders off the dribble. Do you think Kurtinaitis's talent outweighs his seemingly lackluster efforts so that he can be placed on the same foothold as the energetic Kaukenas?

 

[Shawshank2]

Shawshank, can you elaborate on why you listed Kurtinaitis here? I don't know much about him because I was born in the 90s, but my dad, who frequented Halė back in the day, tells me he was a laid-back dude who rarely gave 100% on the court (that's why he remained injury-free for most of his career). That didn't seem to be the case with Kaukenas, who worked relentlessly on court getting to an open spot or beating his defenders off the dribble. Do you think Kurtinaitis's talent outweighs his seemingly lackluster efforts so that he can be placed on the same foothold as the energetic Kaukenas?

Kurtinaitis was a winner ,i dont imagine how can you be a winner and do not play hard as your dad is talking? He was just smart and knowing when you play for real and when you can take game easy this was why his career was really long.For me averaging 15+ pts being only as 3rd option (after 2 best ballers in ltu history) looks good enough.About Rimas off the couart stuff talks is becoming legendary ) Maybe you have heard about 1988 when soviests become olympic champions and beat usa best student with robinsons,richmonds,mayerley and future nba all stars? so that lazy and laid dude scored 28 on americans and after game nbc announcers is saying kurtinaitis maybe is best shooter i ever seen (back in 1988)...And its was by american,you can see that game on youtube with nbc comentaries. Kurtinaitis was really good,maybe he didnt always played hard,but in most important game he was showing up other example 1996 semifinal when all team strugled and scored only combine 58...Rmas scored 21 of those 58 being 36years old in Olympic semifinal ! ...And Lithuania was very close beating jugoslavia. Kurtinaitis was one of those players you can surely go to war. I love Kaukenas and what he did in 2007-2008 and 2011-2012 so mentione him as possibility.

 

[Shawshank2]

I'd be inclined to move Artūras Karnišovas up to the #1 slot at SF. Karnišovas' 18.33 points per game ranks third behind only Šarūnas Marčiulionis' 20.24 and Arvydas Sabonis' 19.90 PPG totals. Ramūnas Šiškauskas tallied "only" 12.86 PPG which is #6 on the list of Team Lietuva players.

Karnisovas and Siskauskas is an open discussion i agree.But its not fair to compare 90s and 00s statistics.Those 90s stars was scoring way more than 00s stars almost in any team.Basketball was diffrent. In 90s team played 6-7players and other was just for number.In 00s usually our teams were with long bench and shared the scoring.Macijauskas for me was best point scorer in our nt history,if he averaged like 15ts in 00s,i have no doubt he would have average over 20 in 90s,if he played 33-35minutes like 90s star players used to play,not 20-22 minutes in 00s.Siskauskas was better defender,was better playmaker,could play 3,5positions.Overall i take him over Karnisovas who was star no doubt in europe in 90s.But Siskauskas was doing more things for our nt team.If i could choose now to reborn Karnisovas or Siskauskas to our nt team,o would choose reborn Siskauskas we can play him in whatever positions is neeeded.As these days basketball is played,best players is those who playing in multiple positions like Siskauskas was doing in 00s.

 

[Straight forward2]

I also wouldn't be sure about JV here...already. Dude had one really good tournament so far - 2015 (yet failed as the key player in the final). He was very good in 2014 also, but it's only non-pre Olympic WC and NT finished 4th. Yet Valanciunas didn't make any impact in OG. Played in 2 tournaments already. At this point Einikis is above him as he was very important in 1996, 2000 OG. Also E. Zukauskas ahead of JV atm, IMO, because he was the key of the defences of arguably the most talented NT ever 2003 and the only team which grabbed actual title (it sucks so bad that Lithuania has only one modern ball title...off course, I can only say f*** you Soviet Russia at this point, but even since 1992 we could grab at least few more of those). He was also pretty good in 2004 OG. And the same Javtokas or Darjus...both shared a lot of good tournaments...I agree that JV is probably most talented big after Sabonis (Ilgauskas at this point is irrelevant for the discussion), but yet he did too little...

I'd be inclined to move Artūras Karnišovas up to the #1 slot at SF. Karnišovas' 18.33 points per game ranks third behind only Šarūnas Marčiulionis' 20.24 and Arvydas Sabonis' 19.90 PPG totals. Ramūnas Šiškauskas tallied "only" 12.86 PPG which is #6 on the list of Team Lietuva players.

Have in mind that Siskauskas averaged 17,4ppg in official qualifying games (best scorer of NT) since 2001. In Eurobasket 2003 he averaged 14,8ppg. Again, Karnisovas was a great scorer, no doubt, but also was playing ~35 minutes...No-one played that much in 00's team because it was a deep team and BB was different. I'm pretty sure Siskauskas could do pretty much the same under those circumstances in terms of a scoring ot would be very close.

Karnisovas and Siskauskas is an open discussion i agree.But its not fair to compare 90s and 00s statistics.Those 90s stars was scoring way more than 00s stars almost in any team.Basketball was diffrent. In 90s team played 6-7players and other was just for number.In 00s usually our teams were with long bench and shared the scoring.Macijauskas for me was best point scorer in our nt history,if he averaged like 15ts in 00s,i have no doubt he would have average over 20 in 90s,if he played 33-35minutes like 90s star players used to play,not 20-22 minutes in 00s.Siskauskas was better defender,was better playmaker,could play 3,5positions.Overall i take him over Karnisovas who was star no doubt in europe in 90s.But Siskauskas was doing more things for our nt team.If i could choose now to reborn Karnisovas or Siskauskas to our nt team,o would choose reborn Siskauskas we can play him in whatever positions is neeeded.As these days basketball is played,best players is those who playing in multiple positions like Siskauskas was doing in 00s.

I agree with that. Also I think 2000-2005 Siskauskas was very much NBA ready in terms of physicality as well. He was athletic wing for a Euro. Later small injuries slowed him down a little bit. Karnisovas wasn't that athletic as young Siskauskas. Even as 28-32yo he had that sturdiness and toughness to get to he basket and to finish with a contact. Karnisovas didn't like contact basketball much. I actually agree what Karnisovas was more talented scorer, but Siskauskas was so much more universal and all around player. He literally could play quality minutes at 1-4 positions at the highest level, specially 1-3.

 

[Babajas3]

Kurtinaitis was a winner ,i dont imagine how can you be a winner and do not play hard as your dad is talking? He was just smart and knowing when you play for real and when you can take game easy this was why his career was really long.For me averaging 15+ pts being only as 3rd option (after 2 best ballers in ltu history) looks good enough.About Rimas off the couart stuff talks is becoming legendary ) Maybe you have heard about 1988 when soviests become olympic champions and beat usa best student with robinsons,richmonds,mayerley and future nba all stars? so that lazy and laid dude scored 28 on americans and after game nbc announcers is saying kurtinaitis maybe is best shooter i ever seen (back in 1988)...And its was by american,you can see that game on youtube with nbc comentaries. Kurtinaitis was really good,maybe he didnt always played hard,but in most important game he was showing up other example 1996 semifinal when all team strugled and scored only combine 58...Rmas scored 21 of those 58 being 36years old in Olympic semifinal ! ...And Lithuania was very close beating jugoslavia. Kurtinaitis was one of those players you can surely go to war. I love Kaukenas and what he did in 2007-2008 and 2011-2012 so mentione him as possibility.

That clarifies it, thank you!

I agree with that. Also I think 2000-2005 Siskauskas was very much NBA ready in terms of physicality as well. He was athletic wing for a Euro. Later small injuries slowed him down a little bit. Karnisovas wasn't that athletic as young Siskauskas. Even as 28-32yo he had that sturdiness and toughness to get to he basket and to finish with a contact. Karnisovas didn't like contact basketball much. I actually agree what Karnisovas was more talented scorer, but Siskauskas was so much more universal and all around player. He literally could play quality minutes at 1-4 positions at the highest level, specially 1-3.

You basically said everything there is to say about Siska. Smart, adaptable player able to finish through contact, get to the line, pass, score, defend... He was a one of a kind player. His only weakness was probably streaky crunch time performance, but his versatility more than makes up for it.

 

[auris12]

I know i am a little too late to the party ,nonetheless I feel very strongly about Kurtinaitis as a player .
Even in the beginning of his career he made some brash choices ,as in leaving CSKA after serving his two years in the army and joining Zalgiris . In them times ,CSKA had a first choice in any single player they wanted .For example when Sabas just started and he started very young , everyone knew it would be almost impossible to keep him from joining the army ,those CSKA . So there was a plan hatched where someone though that it would be a good idea for him to have 2 kids by the time he was 18 those being excused from the army . Anyways .
He was flamboyant and extremely uncontrollable as well in the beginning . You know , now he talks fondly about Margiris Normantas nowadays and how he likes him for the reasons ? I think he just sees in him his young self . In USSR finals he constantly used to shoot 7, 8 or even 9 meter shots . Mind you , there was no 3 pointers at the time .
Ok, so before i go full length of the 200 pages he deserves ,maybe one can look up his Wiki page :
World Champion – 1982
World championship Silver medalist – 1986
European champion – 1985
European championship Silver medalist – 1987, 1995
European championship Bronze medalist – 1989
Olympic champion – 1988
Olympic Bronze medalist – 1992, 1996
USSR League champion in BC Žalgiris – 1985, 1986, 1987
Spanish ACB champion in Real Madrid Baloncesto – 1994
There are many titles missing from his club career as well .
TL;DR
Kurtinaitis was a remarkable as player , with multiply medals in all NT championships (golds in OL, WC and EC, plus extra) and a member of legendary Zalgiris team of 80's ,unsurpassed as 3 point shooter of his generation(bar Petrovic , but that is another story ) with an ability to drive and finish to the basket . Not only that , he carries legendary status as player who partied a lot (more than Einikis ) but knew when to stop (unlike Einikis) . Plus so much more .
So ,for me , Kurtinaitis is just one step away from being legendary as in comparison to Sabonis or Marciulionis where Kaukenas is one step above from being an average very good NT team player (maybe like Jasaitis , I do not know , but similar type, but not Kalnietis) .
Just my opinion .

 

[LuDux2]

25 years ago
1

 

[LuDux2]

Was Sabonis only Lithuanian above 207cm until 90s?

 

[Shawshank2]

25 years ago
View attachment 98251

in 25 years Lithuania national team won 9 medals and made 12 semifinals ! Good run and those players in the photo above was the first who show the way and what means to represent ltu jersey.They were training in old Klaipeda arena thats was/is very small

 

[Shawshank2]

I know i am a little too late to the party ,nonetheless I feel very strongly about Kurtinaitis as a player .
Even in the beginning of his career he made some brash choices ,as in leaving CSKA after serving his two years in the army and joining Zalgiris . In them times ,CSKA had a first choice in any single player they wanted .For example when Sabas just started and he started very young , everyone knew it would be almost impossible to keep him from joining the army ,those CSKA . So there was a plan hatched where someone though that it would be a good idea for him to have 2 kids by the time he was 18 those being excused from the army . Anyways .
He was flamboyant and extremely uncontrollable as well in the beginning . You know , now he talks fondly about Margiris Normantas nowadays and how he likes him for the reasons ? I think he just sees in him his young self . In USSR finals he constantly used to shoot 7, 8 or even 9 meter shots . Mind you , there was no 3 pointers at the time .
Ok, so before i go full length of the 200 pages he deserves ,maybe one can look up his Wiki page :
World Champion – 1982
World championship Silver medalist – 1986
European champion – 1985
European championship Silver medalist – 1987, 1995
European championship Bronze medalist – 1989
Olympic champion – 1988
Olympic Bronze medalist – 1992, 1996
USSR League champion in BC Žalgiris – 1985, 1986, 1987
Spanish ACB champion in Real Madrid Baloncesto – 1994
There are many titles missing from his club career as well .
TL;DR
Kurtinaitis was a remarkable as player , with multiply medals in all NT championships (golds in OL, WC and EC, plus extra) and a member of legendary Zalgiris team of 80's ,unsurpassed as 3 point shooter of his generation(bar Petrovic , but that is another story ) with an ability to drive and finish to the basket . Not only that , he carries legendary status as player who partied a lot (more than Einikis ) but knew when to stop (unlike Einikis) . Plus so much more .
So ,for me , Kurtinaitis is just one step away from being legendary as in comparison to Sabonis or Marciulionis where Kaukenas is one step above from being an average very good NT team player (maybe like Jasaitis , I do not know , but similar type, but not Kalnietis) .
Just my opinion .

Kurtinaitis never was world champion.In 1982 from Lithuanians for ussr played only 3 Sabonis,Chomicius and Jovaisa.Rimas made his debut for ussr nt team in 1984

 

[usagre2]

Kurtinaitis never was world champion.In 1982 from Lithuanians for ussr played only 3 Sabonis,Chomicius and Jovaisa.Rimas made his debut for ussr nt team in 1984

And Sabonis was a non factor on that team so it was really Chomicius and Jovaisa. But from 1983-1989 it was always Lithuanian players that were the key components to the Soviet team.

 

[madmax2]

Was Sabonis only Lithuanian above 207cm until 90s?

yeah, it's kinda strange how Lithuanian basketball had no real giants except for Sabonis up until the 90's when the kids suddenly started growing very tall Were people back in the soviet union just simply malnourished and lacked basic groceries and products or very tall kids were just simply not interested in basketball?

 

[CoachZ2]

yeah, it's kinda strange how Lithuanian basketball had no real giants except for Sabonis up until the 90's when the kids suddenly started growing very tall Were people back in the soviet union just simply malnourished and lacked basic groceries and products or very tall kids were just simply not interested in basketball?

Malnourishment was the key. It's like in Yugoslavia where we exploded in height in the 70s. Before that most of the guys were nowhere near that. In general there are other factors, such as modern training methods in the puberty/growth period, then better selection of athletes when they are young etc...

 

[madmax2]

Malnourishment was the key. It's like in Yugoslavia where we exploded in height in the 70s. Before that most of the guys were nowhere near that. In general there are other factors, such as modern training methods in the puberty/growth period, then better selection of athletes when they are young etc...

yeah, my initial thought was probably the correct one
I just find it pretty strange that we started seeing so many 210+ cm guys in the 90's straight away, while back earlier it was only the lone giant Sabonis towering over everybody else on the team. I guess medicine and sports diet just took a huge leap when our country finally broke out from the soviet "paradise" and it's store shelves, filled with deficient products lacking all kinds of nutritional energy required for a development of a healthy athlete

 

[auris12]

Kurtinaitis never was world champion.In 1982 from Lithuanians for ussr played only 3 Sabonis,Chomicius and Jovaisa.Rimas made his debut for ussr nt team in 1984

Fair enough . I still remember that picture of them guys disembarking from the plane holding the medals . Kurtis was not one of them .
But that was me , doing copy/paste from Wiki .

 

[auris12]

Malnourishment was the key. It's like in Yugoslavia where we exploded in height in the 70s. Before that most of the guys were nowhere near that. In general there are other factors, such as modern training methods in the puberty/growth period, then better selection of athletes when they are young etc...

Malnourishment my ass ,dear friend . I know you might be unaware of how plentiful Lithuania was at the time , but let me tell you one thing - no one was starving . Just from my own experience - 5 trees of apples , 2 of pears , 2 cherry trees with another 3 Japanese type , gooseberry 3 or 4 bushes , red and black current bushes as well . Raspberry 2 or 3 bushes too.Plus we always had plenty of strawberries , cucumbers and tomatoes in our garden. Then, as most people of that time , we had second garden away for 20 km where we had all them root veggies , forest where we would pick some mushrooms and a river where we would get some fish if we catch it ,as a hobby . Best thing ? All this milk products i had every day . Milk itself , cottage cheese , kefir and so on.
Life was good food wise , nothing i can afford nowadays to my kids . And, lets say , all this non "malnourishment" got me to 182 at my best .
And then Chernobyl happened . And nowadays no one blinks their eyes if someone young , and tall as 2 meters walks our streets . It is like , oh yeah , he probably tried , but not succeeded .

 

[LuDux2]

I really don't think radiation made teenagers Ilgauskas Zukauskas and Vilcinskas gain another 20 cm

 

[Hepcat2]

With respect to comparing nutrition in Lithuania before the fall of the Soviet empire and after, I wonder if the big change has been in the amount of meat products consumed? I know that Chinese/Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese kids here in North America all tower over their parents these days. I've heard that it's because of their diets that are richer in meat than were their parents' in the old country.

Moreover visiting Lithuania in 1987 and 1994, I didn't notice any young kids or teenagers that were at all overweight. They don't all seem to be as lean and fit anymore, particularly the girls.

 

[usagre2]

PG. S. Jasikevicius. (30) /. S. Marciulionis (10)
SG. S. Marciulionis. (20) /. A. Macijauskas. (20)
SF. A. Karnisovas. (24) /. R. Siskauskas. (16)
PF. L. Kleiza. (28) /. D. Songaila. (12)
C. A. Sabonis. (30) / J. Valanciunas. (10)

That would be my 9 man rotation with approximate minutes.

10-12 men would be Kalnietis, Stombergas, and Kurtinaitis.

Good luck beating these guys.