• Since we moved our URL please clear your browsers history and cookies and try logging in again. Thank you and sorry for any inconvenience
  • Since we moved our URL please clear your browsers history and cookies and try logging in again. Thank you and sorry for any inconvenience

All time NT

  • Thread starter Thread starter Straight forward2
  • Start date Start date
Kazlauskas was a good coach, but always had some mind blowing ideas in his mind. Like giving a present of victory for opponents in 1999, not playing Linas Kleiza enough in 2013 EB final, playing Kalnietis 40 minutes in meaningless game just before 4finals of 2016 OG and such.
 
Well, even hyper modern BB changed in 20 years. Well, sort of :D Lithuania started FIBA BB revolution in 2000, when our uptempo, fluid offensive BB took place and changed Euro ball for good. In 2000-2004 we been offensive powerhouse and no-one was even close. But it's funny in 2003 when we snatched the title, we were dropping 90,7ppg and took 64,8 shots per game. It was by far the best offense in the tournament, second Spain was not even close with 84,3ppg. Now our NT in 2022 was scoring 89ppg and exactly 64,4 shots per game (same as 2003 team), but our offense was only 6th. The best offensive team Greece elevated 92,2ppg and Serbia 92ppg. But here's the crazy thing. Our NT in 2004 elevated as high as 93,8ppg and was top scorer, USA had only 88,1ppg. And LTU did it only with 61 shots per game. How? Best shooting ever. We dropped 47,5% threes. So in other words 2004 LTU NT was so dynamic offensively that it was more dynamic than any NT in 2022 EB (after 18 years). So did basketball change? The answer is - I don't know. Well, USA was dropping nasty 105ppg in OG and reached 71 shots per game. Is that all time high? No. Dream team in 1992 was dropping nasty 117ppg and taking 80 shots. It's funny Lithuania back then had second best offense with 94ppg and 66 shots per game. No other Lithuanian team, even 2004, had more. Off course, one would say, hey they played against some trash as China, Venezuala and so on. And that's partially true. But the thing is USA 2024 also stat padded against Sudan or Brazil. If we look only at semis and final, USA going against elite Serbia and France, USA was scoring only 94,5ppg which is great, but nothing new. Take Lithuania in 2004, semis and small final, and we were scoring 93,5ppg.

So did offense change so much? Not really. The number of possessions increases. For example Slovenia elevated really ridiculous 74,4 shots per game in 2020. And led in scoring. But we already seen crazy teams in 1992 and 2004. I believe Lithuania may be the second best scoring NT even after USA if we counted all tournaments since 1992. I'm obviously too lazy to do such massive job, but we had some amazing scoring teams in 1992, 1995, 1999, 2000, 2003, 2004 and so on. Even recently been dropping 89ppg. That's why I'm sure we gonna hoop big time offensively with KJ and Buzelis.
 
We speak too little about Karnisovas when it comes to all time great. He's the top scorer of all time, total points, he was everaging 18,3ppg. F.e. Kleiza is 12,6ppg, and we talk about Kleiza much more. The thing is, I think Karnisovas is third most talented Lithuanian after Arvydas and Marciulionis. No-one could stay in scoring with him other than 2 hall of famers. Not even Macijauskas who is 4th in ppg with 15ppg. We have to realize that Valanciunas is 11,6ppg player and we speak about him as franchice player or whatever. Yeah, he started NT career 2 years earlier than guys like Karnisovas, Kleiza, but still. Again, I really doubt we'll ever again have such 4 stars punch as Arvydas, Marciulionis, Karnisovas, Kurtinaitis. All 4 are among top 5 scorers in terms of ppg. Only Macijauskas sneaks into top 5. Even if say, imagine Buzelis and KJ become huge FIBA stars and they average 20ppg in their career (only Marciulionis 20,1ppg and Sabonis 19,9ppg managed to do that), who would drop 18,3ppg and 13,4ppg next to them? It's impossible. F.e. best young player of NT in recent years was Jokubaitis, and he ATM is 9,3ppg kinda player in his NT career. He will lift that to say 11ppg or whatever, but he most likely won't even reach Kurtinaitis' 13,4ppg. We had an amazing team individually in 90s. And even short bench didn't stop us from dominance and consistent medal collecting. Can anyone beat Marciulionis' 20.1ppg record? More realistic scenario a bit, but still extremely difficult. As I said Kleiza is only 12,6ppg player and we treat him as a scoring machine. Macijauskas was special, but he came up with 15ppg. Bogi is 15,2ppg career player, Fournier 13,5ppg and we treated these guys as true FIBA stars or even superstars. To drop 20ppg you have to be nearly Doncic level, who has 23,6ppg in the NT. Hell, even taking Dragic, he has only 12,4ppg in the NT. P. Mills has 16,6ppg and I would say he has been FIBA superstar. So 20ppg is extremely hard to get. With that said F. Wagner now has 16,6ppg and he should only raise that with upcoming next 4 tournaments or so. He may get close 20ppg. If Buzelis will make debut only in 2027 he may be a guy who is flirting with big numbers. If he joins this year, I don't see bigger numbers than 8-14ppg and for him also would be difficult to end up as career 20ppg player.
One guy who is at Marciulionis level is Schroder, 20,2ppg. With the first tournament started to put up big numbers being just 21yo. This not happening very often.
 
Couple of more interesting facts. Only 4 players has 4 medal collections. Stombergas, Einikis, Javtokas and Maciulis. This comes more randomly as you have to simply have a good timing. Javtokas and Maciulis are good players, but surely not top 15 players. Can anyone beat this? Also extremely hard. Unless our new gen with KJ and Buzelis will end up being super successful. Jokubaitis 24yo and still without a medal. So for him to collect 4 medals will be hard. KJ and Buzelis are the only who can realistically aim for that if both will turn out big (which I think they will) and will play together freaquently. But even then it will be extremely hard knowing how many strong NTs now out-there.
 
And lastly we never yet dropped from 10th spot in FIBA ranking. We now stand exactly there for 2 years. The highest point was 3rd place I think. But I have the data only since 2006. I do hope that we don't fall lower than 10 actually. This 2025 EB is still a risk, but starting with 2027 we should have a very talented team again.
 
Straight forward said:
Couple of more interesting facts. Only 4 players has 4 medal collections. Stombergas, Einikis, Javtokas and Maciulis. This comes more randomly as you have to simply have a good timing. Javtokas and Maciulis are good players, but surely not top 15 players. Can anyone beat this? Also extremely hard. Unless our new gen with KJ and Buzelis will end up being super successful. Jokubaitis 24yo and still without a medal. So for him to collect 4 medals will be hard. KJ and Buzelis are the only who can realistically aim for that if both will turn out big (which I think they will) and will play together freaquently. But even then it will be extremely hard knowing how many strong NTs now out-there.
Click to expand...


what multiple medals are you dreaming? comparing 1990s fiba levels to 2020s fiba levels is laughable for anybody who knows basketball history


Go ant watch level of 2024 olympics and see how much already playoofs tested world class tallents is needed to fight for medal. Its just loaded literally more than half of top 20 world players was playing.


Jokubaitis will be very lucky to win 2 medals in NT even if he plays 10 more years.. But more likely maybe he will win 1 underdog story medal with NT in those todays fiba levels


Buzelis very likely will play fot NT like other american-lithuanian Sabonis does randomly only in summers when timeline its good for him


Buzelis wont be Valanciunas or Jokubaitis they have real emotional connection with NT since they were teenagers
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top