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All time NT

  • Thread starter Thread starter Straight forward2
  • Start date Start date
Shawshank said:
rare game were Ilgauskas + Einikis played together with LTU uniform

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vc-8hEahTY&t=1309s

this game was played 6month before eurobasket 1995 after seeing it i got why Garastas was using 6 players in eurobasket and main players played 36-40min.
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Not a single ballhandler in Lithuania's roster, LOL :D Literally Lukminas is horrible at it and he couldn't facilitate anyone. Overall it's funny how Liths weren't used to intense individual defence then. Very limited roster.

21yo Stombergas looked dynamic though.

And I will say that 19yo Ilgauskas to me is a better prospect than 19yo JV and Sabonis. In comparison with JV, Iilgauskas was much more flexible scorer, his touch was deadly. He could make quick runner, jimmy, fade a way off the post and so one. Quick scorer. JV could only finish in p'n'r and drive to his right as 19yo. Ilgauskas better shot blocker. Overall to me 19yo Ilgauskas seems higher IQ, more flexible center. Craftier with the ball, could pass and handle the ball better. It was a huge loss for Lithuania.

90's was carried by 4 players, but really great players.
 
I would rank our great center's in terms of talent (not careers) like this:

A. Sabonis
Z. Ilgauskas
D. Motiejunas
D. Sabonis.
J. Valanciunas
G. Einikis
D. Lavrinovic
R. Javtokas
A. Gudaitis/M. Petravicius/A. Kavaliauskas
 
There's no way Donatas Motiejūnas has shown enough talent over the course of his career to deserve that #3 rating. Pre-back trouble he had a stellar few months but since then his talent level is way down.

:(
 
Straight forward said:
90's was carried by 4 players, but really great players.
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you could put those 4 players to any NT from 90s fiba tournament and they making atleast semifinal.

We used to have discusion which teams better 1995 or 2003.

I said teams from 2000s from 5-12th players would kill by 25pts 1992-1996 NT 5-12th players.

Imagine what will happen if 90s NT gonna play their barely moving zone against shooters team of Macijauskas,Siskauskas,Stombergas,Jasikevicius .

Shooter like Djordjevic loved those looks he got in 90s playing LTU.I have a feeling 2003 kvartet would love it too :)

NT could play zone in 90s with their 6 player rotation and in such way safe energy in defence.With todays shooting no chance playing such lame zone.

No way 4 players will be able to play 35min+ every game in todays speeds every second day in NT tournaments like Sabonis,Marciulionis,Karnisovas and 35 old Kurtinaitis could in 90s 30 second per attack slow game.

Ilgauskas would be unplayable in today pikenrool defensive coverages even more than JV is. Valanciunas was faster when they both were 19 is way faster when they both were in their peak around 28-32.

Just basketball for centers was diffrent world in 90s and 00s what it is now since like 2015 Warriors changed the game.
 
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Well, yes, 90's simply lacked the bench. There was no bench.

It also shows how basketball grew in Lithuanian since 90's. If 90's we didn't have a bench. Going further we could gather 3 quality bench rosters if not more. We have way more quality average players compared to 90's.

On other hand, we have been lacking that extra talents since 90's. No-one got even close to prime Sabas, Rooney.

JV had better motor, toughness and was more athletic. But Ilgauskas is sneaky coordinated. He reads the game much better. His touch is incomparable with JV, IMO. Talent wise, Ilgauskas was more talented.
 
i went through history of ltu NT 3 best scoring guards in medal winning tournaments:

2000 Jasikevicius,Siskauskas,Maskoliunas 14+6,6+1,4 = 22pts
2003 Jasikevicius,Macijauskas,Siskauskas 14+15,8+14,8= 44,6pts (42,5 in 2004)
2007 Jasikevicius,Siskauskas,Kaukenas 10,4+13,8+10,1= 34,3pts (34,4 in 2008)

2010 Kalnietis,Pocius,Delininkaitis 9,8+9,6+7,6 = 27pts
2013 Kalnietis,Seibutis,Pocius 12,1+8,5+4,7= 25,3pts
2015 Kalnietis,Seibutis,Milaknis 10,6+7,8+5,1= 23,5pts

2019 Kalnietis,Grigonis,Lekavicius 10,0+10,2+13= 33,2pts
2021 Kalnietis,Grigonis,Jokubaitis 10,1+10,3+9= 29,4pts


2022 Grigonis,Jokubaitis,Lekavicius over or under 30 pts?
 
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Averages alone says only a part of the story. F.e. in 2000 Jasikevicius was really struggling early on, but in last three games (4finals, semis, small final) he averaged 22.3ppg and we snatched bronze. On other hand, Jasikevicius and Siskauskas peaked too early in 2004, dominated in the group stage, but gassed out when the knock out stage came and we choked. It's a short tournament, but it's very intense tournament and barely any team can play equally strong whole tournament. Even USA rosters have their peak during the tournament. 2004 USA team struggled heavily early on, but looked stronger and stronger with each game. And that team wasn't some trash team - Duncan, Iverson, Marbury, R. Jefferson, Wade and so on. Our 2013 and 2015 success has a lot to do with peaking at the right time.

My biggest concern is - wouldn't we wash out after tough games against FRA, SLO, GER and even Bosnia. We looked good early on in 2016 as we beat really strong Brazil, Argentina, even Nigeria. Then slipped against Spain, battled to the last breath against Croatia and suddenly we are completely gassed before the knock out stage...Australia swept us badly. It wasn't only moral degradation after heavy loss against Spain, it was also the fact that our backcourt was washed out already (and it was thin anyway). Australia was better team off course, but we could surely give them a fight if that was the start of the tournament.

I hope Maksvytis will use rather broad rotation in the group stage. I mean Eurobasket is pretty long and the group stage is a group of death. That's why I say every spot in the roster is valuable. When the knock out stage comes you can shorten or tighten (role players playing less) the rotation, but these days the games are so intense, you need really good bench too.

I think a lot will depend if we will find some X factors, maybe from R. Giedraitis, I. Brazdeikis, or even T. Dimsa (or whatever Maksvytis will take). Our 3 main guards will deliver. More or less, but they will. The question is can we find something beyond them in the perimeter (and even frontline - somehow E. Zukauskas and Kulboka comes to my mind as possible X factors) to extent our overall fire power.
 
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Our group stage will not allow to use broad rotation.If we dont play best players heavy minutes at eurobasket start we are risking start eurobasket 1-2 or even 0-3.

Brasil and Argentina with their 35+ old veteran teams wasnt on same level as Spain,Australia with their 5-6 nba players in 2016 and playoofs shown that.

50pts lose demoralised our team it was very clear.Even players who played little in first few games was looking like death in their eyes.Fresh legs wont help when team have no spirit and no left believe in themselfs .

We wouldnt lose by 30 to australia in 2016 in normal mental state,but still would lose by 10-15pts either way.

In such short tournament 8-9 men rottaton is good enough.

Its proven formula that most NT uses even elite ones which have 12 highest quality players.
 
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With today's game it's impossible to play with 8 men. By rotation I mean how many players you use in the game. Maksvytis in qualifiers have been using 10-12 men rotation. In one game 12 players played 10 minutes least. I think we have solid and very equal bench, we could even gather at least 2 solid equal benches. That's one of our advantages against teams like Slovenia. To me it seems like Maksvytis likes the idea to use pretty broad rotation to play intense and vital basketball. One of his team's traits in energy and hustle. Kind expect 10-11 men rotation, last 2 playing 6-12 minutes, but I can only see maybe one man sitting entirely.
 
Straight forward said:
With today's game it's impossible to play with 8 men. By rotation I mean how many players you use in the game. Maksvytis in qualifiers have been using 10-12 men rotation. In one game 12 players played 10 minutes least. I think we have solid and very equal bench, we could even gather at least 2 solid equal benches. That's one of our advantages against teams like Slovenia. To me it seems like Maksvytis likes the idea to use pretty broad rotation to play intense and vital basketball. One of his team's traits in energy and hustle. Kind expect 10-11 men rotation, last 2 playing 6-12 minutes, but I can only see maybe one man sitting entirely.
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did you watched Olympics or you making up things again ? Look at close playoofs games boxscores.

Look at olympics champions Usa Mcgee,Johnson,Grant i dont recall them playing in 3 playoofs games at all.

Usa 2021 was 9 men team.

Im sure Slovenia or Australia did similiar things i saw faces on their benches that never played.

No winning teams uses 10-11 players in playoofs game nobody.That would put team in chaos,unpredictable rotation both for players and coaches.

Coach takes 8 best players and rotate them,sometimes put 9th if matchup is good.

we are talking about 2 weeks Nt tournament not 9 month club season here.

Celtics playing 8 men rotation last 2 months in nba playoofs and playing in finals now and their games is 48minutes long.
 
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Different coaches different tactics. NBA is star's leagues. Coaches will play their 4 best players 40 and even more minutes in the series. FIBA games actually are more intense. More rigid and so on. Slovenia actually have been using 10 men rotation basically. Australia a little bit shorter. France used 10 men rotation in the final, USA 9. Spain was using 11 men rotation. That's Olympics 2020 (2021). It can go either way from 9 to 11 basically.

I would suggest broader rotation for us because deep and equal bench is our advantage.
 
I initially thought that it would be similar to what Straight Forward described and what we are used to seeing in Euroleague. Looking at numbers from 2019 Worlds, around 9 players rotation is used. I looked at top 4 teams and their quarter, semi and finals games, as group games can include some lower level competitions, blowouts, etc where you can let your non rotational guys play. It seems that each team has 3 to 5 main guys playing 25min and more, and then remaining guys' minutes varies depending on matchup. Below is rough summary for each team. I did not count player into rotation if he has DNP or played less than 6 minutes. Rotations are in QF/SF/F order.

Argentina 2019 Rotation of 8-10-9, 5 players playing at least 25min, 2 players around 20min and rest less than 10min
Australia 2019 Rotation of 9-9-9, 3 players playing at least 30min, 4 players vary between 15 and 25min, 2 players around 15min
France 2019 Rotation of 10-9-9, 4 players playing at least 25min, rest varies between 10 and 20min
Spain 2019 Rotation of 9-8-9, 5 players playing at least 25min, rest varies between 10 and 20min

For Lithuania the main rotation guys should include Valanciunas, Grigonis, Jokubaitis, while Lekavicius and Sabonis seems to be like constant 20min+ guys, as it's tough to have both Sabonis and Valanciunas sharing the court, so not sure if I could pencil Sabonis with the first three. Other spots at either forward position seem less clear and probably should depend on matchup, what kind of day the player is having, etc. What I do like about our backcourt is size, both Jokubaitis and Grigonis, should be able switch between 1-3 defensively pretty respectively.
 
Shawshank said:
i went through history of ltu NT 3 best scoring guards in medal winning tournaments:

2000 Jasikevicius,Siskauskas,Maskoliunas 14+6,6+1,4 = 22pts
2003 Jasikevicius,Macijauskas,Siskauskas 14+15,8+14,8= 44,6pts (42,5 in 2004)
2007 Jasikevicius,Siskauskas,Kaukenas 10,4+13,8+10,1= 34,3pts (34,4 in 2008)

2010 Kalnietis,Pocius,Delininkaitis 9,8+9,6+7,6 = 27pts
2013 Kalnietis,Seibutis,Pocius 12,1+8,5+4,7= 25,3pts
2015 Kalnietis,Seibutis,Milaknis 10,6+7,8+5,1= 23,5pts

2019 Kalnietis,Grigonis,Lekavicius 10,0+10,2+13= 33,2pts
2021 Kalnietis,Grigonis,Jokubaitis 10,1+10,3+9= 29,4pts


2022 Grigonis,Jokubaitis,Lekavicius over or under 30 pts?
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As much as I would want it to be over, I would be my money for under.
 
Svajunas said:
As much as I would want it to be over, I would be my money for under.
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Last summer Grigonis, Kalnietis, Jokubaitis brought 29.3ppg in 4 games (10,3 + 10 + 9). Grigonis underperformed. In this team he should go for 12-15ppg, IMO. If he will shoot as he can, he can reach that. In Kaunas he shot only 34% from the field which is trash, he can do better. Under Maksvytis I expect to see Lekavicius more of 2019 version than 2021. Maskoliunas blew it badly. Just play f...p'n'r, make some plays to open left hand drives for both Lukas and Jokubaitis and you're good. When you have such screeners as JV/Domas you can utilize Jokubaitis/Lekavicius all day long.

My guess would be such:

13ppg Grigonis
10ppg Jokubaitis
9ppg Lekavicius

32ppg total my prediction.
 
Grigonis havent played basketball since february.

Thats matters I hardly can believe player can come without playing real proffesional basketball for 6 months and have his best NT summer ever like that.

Player can feel healthy but they dont have same feeling,out of any rhythm and so on not playing for such long period.

Thats why Marius desperetaly want to be in first camp,he himself dont know in what kind shape he is right now.

Dont know what happend in Barsa but Rokas minutes was cut too.And overall Jokubaitis still will have his up and downs.


My feeling this 2022 summer best and most stable ltu guard will be Lekavicius similiar to 2019.

But if we want to win medal Nt 2022 need best guard to be Grigonis he can effect game simply more.
 
I somehow feel that Grigonis will be OK. I mean he was 3 months without official games. Now games coming. Tons of friendlies and 4 official games before Eurobasket. Off course, better to come in a good shape, but I think he'll be OK. I hope him to be healthy in the first place cause he's always half injured in the NT. BTW, he has been working with Zalgiris 2 guys recently + Dimsa, Janavicius, Sabeckis, Cizauskas. Dat three still looks good:

https://twitter.com/imLuckyD/status/1536724957543256065
 
I had to re-watch the end of 2011 4finals between Lithuania and Macedonia to be ready for any outcome of tomorrow's game and champ overall.

This has to be our most idiotic knock out stage loss ever. With 59sec to go we're up +2. Saras rushes into transition (for real?:eek:), quick pass to Kaukenas who take wild shot against three defenders. But the rebound! Saras finally holds the ball what he had to do in the first place, goes for p'n'r, but ridiculously slips and loses the ball. The defensive possession, Songaila rebounds the ball and throws super quick and super bad cross court pass to Saras, Macedonia steals the ball, panic mode, Kaukenas leaves Iliesvki completely open and he sinks the three. Macedonia up +1. Time out. We barely inbound the ball, Kalnietis almost travels, but somehow gets the ball to Songaila under the basket, but he somehow can't convert it, Macedonia deflects the ball. We have 5.5sec and we through instant long jumper instead going to the cup for last second shot.

Our vets played like they are drunk. That's what home court pressure did to even such players as Jasikevicius. Unbelievable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2DbclvV7b8&ab_channel=EuropeanTrust
 
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