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All time NT

  • Thread starter Thread starter Straight forward2
  • Start date Start date
Straight forward said:
More like we should be putting like this:

Kozys 13 / 6.6 / 2.1
Maciulis 14,6 / 6.1 / 1

That's rather similar performances. I find their games very similar, but off course Maciulis was a bit better prospect.
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So can we expect a bit less than 30 points in EC elimination game in late 2020s from Kozys?
 
LuDux said:
So can we expect a bit less than 30 points in EC elimination game in late 2020s from Kozys?
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Possible. He has that lust to launch three point bombs as well :D Unlikely though. BTW, I'm not sure how many people would had voted before EB 2015 that Maciulis will drop 34pts, or that he will ever do that while playing for the NT...It come quite as a pleasant surprise.
 
Ok, you passed me new task. Best individual NT performances ever. Some-one beats Maciulis 34 points, 6 Rebounds, 3 Assists and 4 Steals? Let's check it out.
 
Marciulionis 1992 - 29pts, 10a, 6rbs, 3st. I think his most dominant and complete game.
Sabonis 1992 - 31pts, 13rebs, 5st, 4bs, 2a.
Kleiza 2010 - 33pts, 7rbs, 4a, 3st.

There's like thirty point games by Karnisovas, Macijauskas, Siskauskas, but those weren't filling much anything else than scoring in these games. So I think Sabonis, Marciulionis, Sabonis and Maciulis have best individual performances unless I forgeting something.
 
When you see that Sedekerskis is placed at number 38, and then a dead basketball player called Martynas Gecevičius pops at number 34.. Jeez.


Sirvydis, Kupšas, Dulkys, Gecevičius, Bičkauskis. Apparently those guys are all better than Tadas. Well, I think I'm paying a bit too much attention at this shitfest of a ranking, but hey, they got a pretty solid reach and they can easily affect people that are not that much interested in basketball.
 
ZaliaBalta said:
When you see that Sedekerskis is placed at number 38, and then a dead basketball player called Martynas Gecevičius pops at number 34.. Jeez.


Sirvydis, Kupšas, Dulkys, Gecevičius, Bičkauskis. Apparently those guys are all better than Tadas. Well, I think I'm paying a bit too much attention at this shitfest of a ranking, but hey, they got a pretty solid reach and they can easily affect people that are not that much interested in basketball.
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Exactly. Sedekerskis is ridiculously underrated, at least LKL people kinda understand that, basketnews.lt nominated as most underrated. I think to make such rankings is extremely difficult, but this list is just out of hand. The criterion is unclear. The same Valinskas who can't guard a ghost if it weights at least a kilo. It's pretty crazy how people who follow BB can't really see a player itself without any apriori judgments. Just observe player's actual game, watch him playing closely - his D, his physicality, his BB IQ, his motor, his skill, all intangibles. I hate this for a while now and it actually goes as far as even our coaches. They often judge player's because of age, club, common opinion, ect. instead of actually observing a player without any judgements except actual game. Sedekerskis, with all what he brings, is a top 20 baller in the country, easily. But people see that he takes 5 shots and discrediting everything else. I can see that the list is done by some new or hardly known person, I think the editor of krepsinis.net could come up with much better job, even if I disagree with him that R.Giedraitis is top 5 baller in the country today.

But personally I don't think Sirvydis is too high. He added physicality, improved D, he has tons of intangibles, IQ and actually trying to fill very specific and difficult role, often shooting of the screens, taking really uncomfortable, quick shots. That area is reachable only for absolutely best shooters and the guy has been shooting great for 2 seasons now in Eurocup. If had ball in his hands, allowed more freedom, his numbers would grow, but he deals with very specific role at high level nicely for 19/20yo and the D presence is here already.
 
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Lithuania 21st century NT as voted by FIBA.com visitors:
Valanciunas - Kleiza - Siskauskas - Macijauskas - Jasikevicius


SO I hastily elected 2 more NT's
37-75: Talzunas - Lubinas - Paulauskas - Stonkus - Butautas
79-96: Sabonis - Jovaisa - Kurtinaitis - Marciulionis - Chomicius
 
Lithuanian NT members (at least 2 tournaments) since 1992 per CITY/TOWN. Should be interesting to count them:


Kaunas: Chomicius, Kurtinaitis, Sabonis, Marciulionis, Visockas, Lukminsas, Praskevicius, T. Masiulis, Jasikevicius, Jurkunas, Ginevicius, Gustas, Jankunas, Kleiza, Maciulis, Kalnietis, Milaknis, Juskevicius, Motiejunas, Ulanovas, Grigonis

Vilnius: Kaukenas, D. Lavrinovic, K. Lavrinovic, Jasaitis, Kavaliauskas, Pocius, Gecevicius, Kuzminskas

Klaipeda: Karnisovas, Stombergas, E. Zukauskas, Macijauskas, Delininkaitis, Gudaitis

Siauliai: M. Zukauskas, Slanina, Javtokas

Kretinga: Einikis, Krapikas

Silale: M. Petravicius, Lekavicius

Jonava: Maskoliunas

Alytus: Pacesas

Palanga: Seibutis

Silute: Timinskas

Sakiai: Adomaitis

Varena: Salenga

Kaisiadorys: Siskauskas

Marijampole: Songaila

Panevezys: Lukauskis

Utena: Valanciunas

Portland: D. Sabonis


Glance to the nearest future postulates the more equal competition between Kaunas and Vilnius, specially talent wise (which is slightly superior by Vilnius, IMO), but Kaunas should keep it's position as BB capital of Lithuania rather solidly:


Kaunas: Echodas, Kulboka, G. Masiulis, Brazdeikis, Velicka, Murauskas

Vilnius: D.Giedraitis, Sirvydis, Blazevic, Tubelis, Marciulionis

Siauliai: Birutis

Nida: Sedekerskis

Taurage: M. Jogela

Mazeikiai: R. Jokubaitis

PS: To me the biggest surprise is that Karnisovas is from Klaipeda. I thought he's 150% Vilnius' classy guy. I believe Klaipeda beats Vilnius talent wise because of extreme standouts in Karnisovas, Macijauskas, Stombergas :)
 
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Sestokas played once

Anyone has idea how Karnysovas managed to be born in Klaipeda?
 
When talented 2000 y.born generation's kids were 15-16 y.o. Vilys and Balciunas dominated and could fairly be called the most talented and they were both from Kupiskis with a population of only 5000-6000 people. But i see that Silale and Sakiai are even smaller. It'a good that kids can play in a basketball team in the big villages in Lithuania. If not, such a great player like Siskauskas could not have appeared (Kaisiadorys is only 7k).
 
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Dreamcatcher said:
When talented 2000 y.born generation's kids were 15-16 y.o. Vilys and Balciunas dominated and could fairly be called the most talented and they were both from Kupiskis with a population of only 5000-6000 people. But i see that Silale and Sakiai are even smaller. It'a good that kids can play in a basketball team in the big villages.
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Balciunas collapsed as a prospect in crazy way. As 15-16yo he was treated as a beast and was fished by Barsa, at 18 he fails to make it to U18 NT and is barely interesting to anyone. Vilys also got a lot hype from these days Marciulionis school, but also almost collapsed as serious prospect.
 
Straight forward said:
PS: To me the biggest surprise is that Karnisovas is from Klaipeda. I thought he's 150% Vilnius' classy guy. I believe Klaipeda beats Vilnius talent wise because of extreme standouts in Karnisovas, Macijauskas, Stombergas :)
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My guess is that Karnysovai were on vacation. Or maybe his mom studied in Klaipeda. So Vilnius can take him

Jokubaitis was born in Mazeikiai when his father played there, so Klaipeda is taking him from Mazeikiai

Also Eurelijus and Sestokas were from villages outside Klaipeda and Kaunas
 
Shawshank said:
Interesting would be to see how they gonna rank 10-20 places is where you could rank in diffrent ways and all of them would have their cases .Thats were ltu eurocup material players is now and trying to make jump to higher level and making more seriuos knocks on NT door too+ some declining veterans.

My ranking of second ltu team today would look like that:

11.J.Maciulis
12.P.Jankunas
13.A.Milaknis
14.A.Juskevicius
15.R.Jokubaitis
16.A.Kulboka
17.E.Bendzius
18.G.Masiulis
19.T.Dimsa
20.I.Brazdeikis (but just speculation i have no idea how he would look in normal basketball game)
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So krepsinis.net ranked 11-20 spots like that:

11.Butkevicius
12.Juskevicius
13.Maciulis
14.Brazdeikis
15.Bendzius
16.Milaknis
17.Dimsa
18.Jankunas
19.Echodas
20.Jokubaitis

8 picks was same.But main diffrence they see Dmo as top10 player right now... I saw and still do Butkevicius as 10th best ltu player right now.

Other top 9 is obviuos picks and they are locks for 2021 Olympics if healthy.
 
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Lithuania NT who won medals:

1992 Sabonis(28),Marciulionis(28),Kurtinaitis(32),Karnisovas(21),Chomicius(33),Krapikas(31) these 6 players aver. 87pts of 94 entire teams points
1995 Sabonis (31),Marciulionis(31),Karnisovas(24),Kurtinaitis(35),Einikis(26) these 5 players aver. 80pts of 86pts entire teams points
1996 Sabonis(32),Marciulionis(32),Karnisovas(25),Kurtinaitis(36),Einikis(27),Stombergas(23),Lukminas(28) these 7 players aver. 77pts pg of 83pts
2000 Jasikevicius(24),Stombergas(27),Einikis(31),Songaila(22),Timinskas(26),Siskauskas(22),T.Masiulis(25) these 7play. aver. 67pts of 77pts
2003 Macijauskas(23),Siskauskas(25),Jasikevicius(27),Stombergas(30),E.Zukauskas(30),D.Songaila(25) these 6play.aver. 77pts of 91pts
2007 Siskauskas(29),Songaila(29),Jasikevicius(31),Kaukenas(30),Kleiza(22),K.Lavri(28),D.Lavri(28),Jasaitis(25) these 8play.aver. 77pts of 82pts
2010 Kleiza(25),Kalnietis(24),Pocius(24),Maciulis(25),Delininkaitis(28),Jasaitis(28),Jankunas(26) these 7play. aver. 70pts of 83pts
2013 Kalnietis(27),Kleiza(28),Maciulis(28),Seibutis(28),D.Lavri(34),Valanciunas(21),Dmo(23),Pocius(27) these 8play. aver. 63 of 73pts
2015 Valanciunas(23),Maciulis(30),Kalnietis(29),Jankunas(31),Kuzminskas(26),Seibutis(30) these 6play. aver. 66pts of 74pts

that were the players with their age at that tournament that were scoring 80-85% of entire teams points in those medal winning tournaments.

honorable mentions for defence and dirty work over the years: M.Zukauskas,T.Masiulis,E.Zukauskas,R.Javtokas every medal winning teams needs such workers their impact isnt shown on stats paper.



in 3 Kazlauskas teams that won medals our NT averaged 77,73,74 pts per game and won with defence.Other our NT medal winning teams were 82+pts scoring teams.

Our deepest winning teams were 2007 and 2013.

1992-1995 it was literally 6 men teams were 4 players were doing all scoring and playing 33min+ .

2015 NT main rotation was very thin too.

fun fact : 1995 semifinal Lithuania-Croatia 90-80 Marciulionis,Sabonis,Karnisovas,Kurtinaitis scored 88pts of 90 and won semifinal .I cant imagine in today era any team winning semifinal game with literally only 4 players scoring :)





NT winning formula is: 6-7 mature high quality professionals that will do heavy lifting + 1-2 players that will be for defence and dirty work

best age for winning medal be in top7 player rotation is between 24-31 age range.

was 7 players in 1992-2015 that made main 7-8 players rotation being u-23 at that time in medal winning teams: Karnisovas,Stombergas,Siskauskas,Songaila,Macijauskas,Kleiza,Valanciunas all of them now are in top15 ltu basketball players list of all time.Generational tallents can help any team doesnt matter age.

33+ old players is simply too old to be in top 7-8 men rotation for 8 games in 12 days tournaments scheadule.



looking at history you need 6-7 group of high quality players between age 24-31 to come together at same time to have a decent chance for medal hunt.


My main 7-8 players projected team im going to war in 2021 Olympics is:

Valanciunas(29),Sabonis(25),Grigonis(27),Lekavicius(27),Ulanovas(29),Kuzminskas(32),Giedraitis(29) they will score atleast 80% of entire teams points+ Butkevicius(29),Gudaitis(28) for defence and dirty work inside.

+ maybe Kalnietis in captain,mentor role for 10-12min per game at 35 old age.But history already shown us how our best pg Chomicius 95,Jasikevicius 2011 looked at 35 in those tournaments.It simply doesnt work at that age.

Alot of mature and in their peak years players in same time right now in our NT i smell medal very soon :)
 
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There's nice statistical job you've done here, interesting stuff ;) But I wouldn't jump on any conclusions from it. Every decade was so much different to other. In 90s when we won medals we had international superstars and the rest, in 00s we had very talented offensive team with some European based stars and great balance, in 10s (from 2013 to be precise) we had great coach and average team, JV was probably the only brighter talent there, so then defense, tactics helped to reach podium. There's no one formula which could lead you to medals, you can win it with few superstars (i.e. like Slovenia in 2017) or with none, but with great chemistry, you just need to adjust the best way you can to roster you have
 
I also wouldn't jump to any conclusions from this data. Other than the average model is pretty much what Shaw described, but it's more of an average model overall rather than winning medals model. I also think that at the end of the day 1992 team is probably best ever. We had those 2 superstars who delivered every damn night, plus EL stars in Karnisovas, Kurtinaitis. With all respect to 00's talent and depth, Saras and Siskauskas could have those empty games and they had. Rooney and Sabonis just climbed over and delivered whatever the circumstances. I think the best recipe is still one - have best players on the court. Slovenia is the best example. They took 2 international beasts in Dragic and Doncic, complimented them with couple good players, and BOOM, the core which basically played for the first time won it all, only because Dragic, Doncic were too strong duo to handle. I think 1992 still stands as the best team ever, because of 2 best Liths of all time and numbers show it's a highest scoring NT.

It may not mean too much, but in 2021 we most likely face unprecedent. We'll have an ALL STAR in out roster. That never happened before.
 
Yes, that's what interesting that Saras and Sabas were gaming every freaking night at their peak, it didn't matter even it's 7th game in 8th day, you could always expect them to deliver. No day-off. While as you mentioned, Jasikevicuus and Siska had such off days and to be precise in the most important game in our bball history... 2004 semi, both sucked. Of course Sireika also fcked up, no plan B and so on, kicking out Nelson from defensive schemes, but when you have Macas for a quarter, then Stombergas for few mins till he got 5th foul and Italians doing havoc - you surely can't have two of your main stars out of the game, especially since both were your playmakers. Anyway, going back to 90s, I think what also rolled the players back then was huge passion for the game, nowadays I miss it.
Another thing is, IMO in 90-00s, what makes these teams better, overall competition was stronger, in 00s I\d say it was the best ever with golden generations of some great teams, or even some smaller teams having superstars in their rosters
 
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