24th FIBA-Asia Championship [Jul 28-Aug 5 Japan]

[daniab2]

this history thing will go on and on like a vicious cycle







hhmmm.... tough question.

right now, i would say 4 games out of 5, Lebanon can beat Korea simply because the Koreans are not too serious about their NT unlike before and most Asian teams have found a way to overcome the Korean style of basketball.

Dear Grr_tiger,what are you saying is not true about S.korea:
1_S.korea NT had paticipate in asian championship 1999 in a serious NT ,because in this Tournament S.korea the second place.

2_ in asian championship 2001,S.korea had participate also in a serious team,korea beat lebanon in the first round,and lebanon beat korea in semi finals.

3_In asian championship 2003,south korea had participate in a serious team ,korea beat lebanon in a overtime without el khatib and others 85-83.
And don't forget in asia 2003 S.korea lost against chine only by 10 pts :106-96.

In a conclusion,S.korea stop care about his NT in 2005 why ? i don't know!!
i don't want to say that lebanese NT is the strongest team in asia,like the Phillippino members, i would only to say that asia 2007 will be a hard competition to all asia teams specially that all asia teams try to present a strong team.

 

[karim2]

philipinos are philosophizers thats y they say korea is better than leb...just cuz philipines won leb in a friendly game on their own court it doesnt matter now that leb has beaten korea 2 out of 3 times , even in our 2nd team we lost by only 2pts......anyway daniab are the games of riyadi and blue stars in arab and asian championship for clubs broadcasted on TV , if yeah on which channels and what time ?

 

[daniab2]

philipinos are philosophizers thats y they say korea is better than leb...just cuz philipines won leb in a friendly game on their own court it doesnt matter now that leb has beaten korea 2 out of 3 times , even in our 2nd team we lost by only 2pts......anyway daniab are the games of riyadi and blue stars in arab and asian championship for clubs broadcasted on TV , if yeah on which channels and what time ?

Yeah karim,Arab champs will be broadcast on ART arab channel,and Asian championship for clubs on Aljazeerasport if i'm not wrong.

 

[asapa112]

ok ok

do you guys have any information on the Chinese NT team B. I'm kinda worried that these guys may still be a very strong team. after all they are china team B and some of them could maybe someday make it to their team A.

what do you guys think?

 

[Phantim3dx2]

Dear Grr_tiger,what are you saying is not true about S.korea:
1_S.korea NT had paticipate in asian championship 1999 in a serious NT ,because in this Tournament S.korea the second place.

2_ in asian championship 2001,S.korea had participate also in a serious team,korea beat lebanon in the first round,and lebanon beat korea in semi finals.

3_In asian championship 2003,south korea had participate in a serious team ,korea beat lebanon in a overtime without el khatib and others 85-83.
And don't forget in asia 2003 S.korea lost against chine only by 10 pts :106-96.

In a conclusion,S.korea stop care about his NT in 2005 why ? i don't know!!
i don't want to say that lebanese NT is the strongest team in asia,like the Phillippino members, i would only to say that asia 2007 will be a hard competition to all asia teams specially that all asia teams try to present a strong team.

not trying to doubt your words nor anybodies here, well some. but i think what he means is that the ROK Natl team might be on a rebuilding process and isnt as strong as previous teams in the past as you have mentioned with your facts.

 

[jrb0yd2]

finally some basketball talk... this small argument here bet. filipinos would have been avoided if the old forumers here were a little considerate to the new members coz c'mon they are new, we were like them before...this would have also been avoided if some people here would stop on giving excuses about rp especially the recent one when rp beat some ncaa and aba teams... talking about the caliber of the opponent etc...

about if fiba asia champs would be held today i don't think lebanon would be the top 1 there since i understand they are still not practicing and they still have no final 12 players in their lineup yet... at this point i think rp has a slim edge because we have been practicing for about 2 months now... but comes fiba asia champs i expect lebanon to be prepared... before the fiba asia champs rp will definitely be not in the top 4 because nobody knows them... but after the fiba champs we'll be in the top2/3...

 

[vladski2]

HI Vladski, yes, it's ok to speak about our history but saying it again and again in all the threads here, even the proud pinoy bball fans like me will get tired of it, more so with the other nationalities. Maybe, some of them knew them earlier than you. I can get your point, but then, maybe it's better if we just talk about the present, just like how we can contain Yao Ming, who will be guarding khatib, etc, etc.

And also, I don't like your way of saying "this is a wrong statement" because we all posts opinions here right? If it's about a fact, then you can quote it and say if it's wrong then correct it. But saying that someone's opinion is wrong, I don't think it's a good idea. There is no wrong opinion as far as i know. Peace to all !

Thank you for calling my attention.

I am not really rellying on our past achievements on our chances in the upcoming FIBA Asia Champ. I quoted our past achievements just to show that we've been in the highlights of World basketball in the past... the very foundation of every nation is their past...history shapes every new generation... same as basketball... knowledge and skills dont come overnight... and for Philippines... we have been and still considered as one of the best cagers in asia in terms of talent, skills and knowledge of the sports.

This is the reason i said "this statement is wrong." Should i offended anyone in the forum or any person about my statement... please consider my apology.

Peace to all!!!!

 

[ros2]

I'm very excited this coming FIBA-Asia but at the same time I worry about our chances. All I can do here is support and pray for our beloved RP team and not brag about our past achievements. We can still do it...Lumaban ka...

 

[vladski2]

Dear vladski,you are saying that S.korea is much better than Lebanon,i want to tell you that we a lebanese NT we play against S.korea 4 times.
The first time in 1999 (asia championship) we won 75-65.
The second time (2001) in the 1st round :S.korea won against Lebanon 97-71.The 3rd time also in asian championship 2001 semi final we beat S.korea 75-72.

The last time we play against S.korea in Asian championship 2003 without Fadi el khatib,Brian bchara and others,korea defeat Lebanon 85-83.

So how do u know that S.korea is much better than Lebanon????

Here are the bases of my analysis:

1. In 2006 Asian Games, Lebanon was in 9th Place while Korea in 5th. Qatar was even far better in 2nd place next to China.

2. In FIBA World Ranking, Lebanon and Korea placed 24th and 25th, respectively.

3. In Asia, Lebanon and Korea placed 2nd and 3rd respectively.

4. North and south Korea form one team in international competition.


Analysis should not only be based in the games played between Leb and Kor. otherwise such analysis is poor and shallow. In my analysis f these two teams (Kor and Leb) I am taking into consideration the quality and the skills of the players and the team as a whole. Though Leb placed 1 step higher than Kor, its no bearing at all since Kor is next to Leb in ranking which means it is not that significant at all.

Game quality, player skills and technical knowledge of the sport, i would go to Korea as a better team than Leb in this coming FIBA Asia.

 

[daniab2]

Here are the bases of my analysis:

1. In 2006 Asian Games, Lebanon was in 9th Place while Korea in 5th. Qatar was even far better in 2nd place next to China.

2. In FIBA World Ranking, Lebanon and Korea placed 24th and 25th, respectively.

3. In Asia, Lebanon and Korea placed 2nd and 3rd respectively.

4. North and south Korea form one team in international competition.


Analysis should not only be based in the games played between Leb and Kor. otherwise such analysis is poor and shallow. In my analysis f these two teams (Kor and Leb) I am taking into consideration the quality and the skills of the players and the team as a whole. Though Leb placed 1 step higher than Kor, its no bearing at all since Kor is next to Leb in ranking which means it is not that significant at all.

Game quality, player skills and technical knowledge of the sport, i would go to Korea as a better team than Leb in this coming FIBA Asia.

1_Like you said Vladski in fiba world Ranking Lebanon placd 24th and korea 25th,so it's an exemple that lebanon is considered much better than S.korea.

2_Also Lebanon placed 2nd and S.korea 3rd in asia so what is change?? we still much better than S.korea.

3_With all my respect to N.korea but this team is not so famous ,i watched N.korea in Asian games 2002,she don't have a good players.

Conclusion:i don't have the right to said that ur analysis is false but ur arguments assure that Lebanese NT is much better than S.korea.
So let us wait Fiba Asian championship to know the strongest team behind Chine.

 

[daniab2]

Here are the bases of my analysis:

1. In 2006 Asian Games, Lebanon was in 9th Place while Korea in 5th. Qatar was even far better in 2nd place next to China.

Dear vladski,in 2006 Asian Games,Lebanon participate just respect to quatar because Quatar help Lebanon in the last war.So Lebanon NT go to quatar without a coach,many of lebanese players do not participate like Brian Bchara,and Fadi el khatib is injured.

 

[vladski2]

I tend to agree with sickcurtain's rankings! However....assuming that China sends its Team B this July, I'd be more specific and say that IF THE FIBA-ASIA CHAMPIONSHIPS WERE HELD TODAY, the final standing would be as follows...

1. Lebanon
2. Philippines/S. Korea
3. Qatar/Japan
4. China Team B

Dark Horses: Chinese Taipei, Jordan, Kazakhstan

Sure, RP surprised Lebanon 2 times in exhibition matches but, after going through the rigors of the WBC (and beating France), Lebanon still has an edge over RP in poise and experience. To move up to # 1, RP needs to toughen up mentally (sweeping the Asian Champs Cup in Iran and the Qatar invitationals is a good place).

S. Korea has been keeping its cards close to its chest lately. But they're always dangerous. Ditto for Qatar and Japan, being the hosts.

I've already seen some of China's Team B players scrimmage one time I was in Guangzhou -- they look promising but still much too raw (and too soft) to put up a solid fight against the grown men of Lebanon, RP, etc. Japan has already shown it can beat China's U-20 team during the East Asian Games.

Taiwan, I think, is a rising star (almost a copycat of a running, 3-pt-shooting Korean team) -- it's just that they lack mental toughness. Jordan has a slew of newly naturalized and/or half-foreign players in its fold.

THough this analysis looks good at first, i tend to disagree to certain issues.

First, Lebanon went to WBC and have beaten France but we have seen them play before they went to said tournament and was loet twice in a row against our ragtag team. My point is they haven't seen the Philippines plays basketball for a long time... and only tasted the rampage of a Team B pro with no preparation at all.

Yes, they went to WBC last year and have beaten France in the process but experience and mental toughness cannot be acquired overnight much more the quality of the game they play. PBA is still among the most respected ball club in asia along with China, Japan and Korea in terms of quality basketball.

THough Lebanon really improves well in international competitions, still as per my assesment... as whole Leb needs a lot more basketball experience and mental toughness when it comes to international kind of game... which also i believe the team philippines is working out... but as per my assessment for both team, Philippines can play/perform better than Lebs in international competition.

Team B of China is not that explosive as per scouting report... and philippines can perofrm fairly well against this team... that is if the line up would not change... these are promising players but lack experience and skills needed for international competition. But of course we should not take them for granted as they may surprise us.

Korea... hmmm i still believe they are capable of surprising us... they have great basketball skills and talent... i think korea is facing the same problem as the RP basketball is facing... but do i believe they can still put up a good fight against any other team in asia... just like they did in the last Asian games in Doha.

IF it is true that China will be fielding its Team B in the competition... need to update my ranking as follows:

1. Philippines
2. Lebanon
3. China
4. Korea/Japan/Qatar

 

[asapa112]

in my opinion,

for my rankings im going to exclude china

it would probably be:
1. Lebanon - Since they have been 2nd place for a couple of years now and has been able to give china a hard time. I know we beat them twice, but this team doesnt stay the same team, i believe they have been searching for new talent to strengthen their already championship caliber line-up.
2. S. Korea - despite their low pl,acings in the recent asian games and Fiba asian basketball championships, their line-up still looks pretty deadly, with a big center(Ha Seung-Jin), with their deadly shooters (Bang Sung yoon and Lee Kyu Sup) with their good playmaker (Kim Seung Hyun) and some of their new breeds, they still look like they have a lot of promise.
3. Philippines - I placed the RP team behind Lebanon and Korea because we havent proven how good we really are just yet. Despite that, i put the RP team above Qatar because we have been having a good training program and also because we have been beating Qatar's national team in the past asian tournaments. Hopefully we still can beat them.
4. Qatar - is a rising force in the asian basketball scene, although i really doubt the eligibility of their players.

despite these rankings, in my opinion all these 4 teams can walk away with the Championship this coming FIBA asia champs, for me these 4 teams are somewhat equal in terms of potential and skill or something like that. i believe there will be no easy wins between these four teams.

what do guys think?

---------------------------

we were like them before

not me

 

[SkyWalker2]

AS a patriotic, Nationalistic and basketball lover Filipino, i would rank the Phils in the no.1. Regardless of whats going to happen in the Asian Championship. Though, im not that as realistic as others here in the forum, I just want to be those crazy basketball lover here in our town who doesnt care if lebanon, Qatar, Korea, China are good. What they know is that RP team will win the Asian championship.


to all my filipino brethren:
WIN OR LOSE, I'LL SUPPORT MY BELOVED COUNTRY, the PHILIPPINES.


hahaha. what a way to motivate myself...

 

[karim2]

finally some basketball talk... this small argument here bet. filipinos would have been avoided if the old forumers here were a little considerate to the new members coz c'mon they are new, we were like them before...this would have also been avoided if some people here would stop on giving excuses about rp especially the recent one when rp beat some ncaa and aba teams... talking about the caliber of the opponent etc...

about if fiba asia champs would be held today i don't think lebanon would be the top 1 there since i understand they are still not practicing and they still have no final 12 players in their lineup yet... at this point i think rp has a slim edge because we have been practicing for about 2 months now... but comes fiba asia champs i expect lebanon to be prepared... before the fiba asia champs rp will definitely be not in the top 4 because nobody knows them... but after the fiba champs we'll be in the top2/3...

no man lebanon always practices on the last week before the west asia qualifier and they still come up with a silver medal....so its only normal that they have not began training yet.......

 

[jrb0yd2]

not me

haha... got to be kidding me... i don't have to count the ways or what...but im just proving my point... if u guys were just a little considerate...... u should have just message the new user in private instead of replying in this thread to prevent any conflicts coz what happened was like a match bet. filipinos... anyway let's move on and lets talk some serious basket...

no man lebanon always practices on the last week before the west asia qualifier and they still come up with a silver medal....so its only normal that they have not began training yet.......

well we will see how prepared they are this july... that probably would work for them in the past but how about in the present especially that a lot of NT's are busy right now preparing including our NT...

AS a patriotic, Nationalistic and basketball lover Filipino, i would rank the Phils in the no.1. Regardless of whats going to happen in the Asian Championship. Though, im not that as realistic as others here in the forum, I just want to be those crazy basketball lover here in our town who doesnt care if lebanon, Qatar, Korea, China are good. What they know is that RP team will win the Asian championship.


to all my filipino brethren:
WIN OR LOSE, I'LL SUPPORT MY BELOVED COUNTRY, the PHILIPPINES.


hahaha. what a way to motivate myself...

way to go dude... that's what im talking about... that's what we need here...

 

[karim2]

is philippine NT going to participate in the asian championship for clubs in 2 days ? r they the same team that participated in 2005 ? if they wanna qualify to the olympics , they have to beat this championship since all these teams are weaker than the NTS except for al jalaa of syria who are stronger than their NT ....blue stars who are the 2nd best club in lebanon are much weaker than the NT especially that their true imports are not going so if philippines NT cant beat blue stars they definitely cant beat the Lebanon NT......

 

[jrb0yd2]

is philippine NT going to participate in the asian championship for clubs in 2 days ? r they the same team that participated in 2005 ? if they wanna qualify to the olympics , they have to beat this championship since all these teams are weaker than the NTS except for al jalaa of syria who are stronger than their NT ....blue stars who are the 2nd best club in lebanon are much weaker than the NT especially that their true imports are not going so if philippines NT cant beat blue stars they definitely cant beat the Lebanon NT......

yes RP NT will participate... this is our 2007 team, our team A... 2 yrs ago, it was more of a combination between team B and team A... this tournament is actually only part of the training of rp... while we expect our team to take this tournament seriously, this tournmanet doesn't really gauge the true power of our team since this is only part of its training... our team was just formed last march and they are still on the process of learning the international game... give the team 2 months more im sure they are going to get ripe.. cheers!

 

[bristron2]

re

re

By FIBA men's ranking

11. China CHN 262
24. Lebanon LIB 57
25. Korea KOR 52
26. Qatar QAT 45
28. Japan JPN 39
37. Islamic Republic of Iran IRI 18
(The ranking is calculated within the scope of a 2 Olympic Games cycle)

If I have to base on the recent(and past) achievements of asian teams, I will rank top 4 like FIBA rankings.(eventhough that ranking don't care Asian Games) Korea did bad recentely(05 FIBA-Asia 4th... worst ever, 06 Asian Games 5th.. worst ever), so we ranked low.


My personal ranking.. for 07 FIBA-Asia

1. Korea
Old asian basketball fans still remember Korea was good, but kids don't and can't know cuz our recent results. I don't blame them, we had to show better plays but so many reasons stopped our players.(injury, coaching problems., referee problems... but I knows that become excuses. we have to show the results)
We couldn't focus on International games recently, but I still believe if we prepare well, we can show our real power like 02 Asian Games.
At now, we still have good players(like asapa11 said), but associantion didn't know how to use them.
prepare is most important thing for Korean team.(team that beat China in 02 Asian game, and the team that beaten hardly by China in 05 FIBA-Asia is not changed so much. even Korea team add some good players like Ha SeungJin. that shows importance of prerare)

p.s some guys put Korea down to Japan. I really can't understand. We never lost to Japan for 10 years in senior A match. And even we sucked in recent years, we alway had better place than Japan, and beat Japan more than 10 points(06 asian games). Maybe blind for Japan's money power?

2. RP
First time I put RP and Lebanon placed same as 2nd, but RP is more dangerous for Korea I think. RP prepares well for competition when they want. And RP players knows how to play basketball. They have absolutely has good 1 on 1 skills. But their problem is height. With only Asi, they can't stop top centers/PFs in Asia. But they also has good 1 on 1 defence, so I gave them 2nd place. But some times they lost so easily(like 3/4 place match in 02 ABC), they need consistancy.

3. Lebanon
They will miss 2 good players(Brian Bashara, and the guy 206-PF/C-68..can't remember his name), comepare to 04 WC. They had important role in their team. So their absent is so bad for Lebanon.
And same as Korea, with no prepare, Lebanon shows bad results.(06 Asian Games).
But they still have Khatib and Fahed, and some good players.
Beat France is not a easy thing, they have still good powers and chances.. Their powerful plays will give hard time for Asian teams.

4. Qatar
Has some good players. but need more teamworks. and also sometimes ruin games easily.(maybe they have PG problems. Daoud Daoud is not pure PG)

5. China B
Good size but too young and has not enough skills. They don't have experince compare to above teams, so that could be crucial.

6/7/8/9/10/1. Japan, Iran, Chinese Taipei, Syria, Kazakhstan, Jordan


Frankly speaking, my top 3 has so little gap for me. conditions and referee's call can make another result. But if we prepare well, I guarantee that we can get 1 direct ticket for olympic.(hope RP or Lebanon or Qatar get another ticket in wild card competiton.) I think, Lebanon plays strong to Euro teams(compare to Korea strong to Latin teams)(cuz Lebanon plays like Europe teams), so they have more chance to grab the ticket in wild card competiton.

 

[bristron2]

re

re

u Lebanon guys make so may excuses for your team,
so I think, maybe I need excuses for my team..

Korea and Lebanon meet 4times in Fiba-Asia,
and has same 2 win and 2 lost.
(who said leb win more???)

my excuses..

99 ABC Lebanon win Korea.
but Korea had 2nd place and Lebanon had 7th? place.
Fans in here, believes that we lost to Lebanon on prupose to meet China in Final.
Korea team didn't want to show our secret tactics for China in earliy games.
(in 99 ABC final, Korea team showed long tempo games, so game score become low)

01 ABC we easily beat Lebanon in earliy games as expected. and in semi-final, referee problem makes Lebanon's victory. referee calls ridiculous calls. I'm still strongly believe that is to help lebanon(After Lebanon and China fight,
China had to give some cost for Lebanon cuz China's players did bad behaviors)
And 01 ABC, our PGs are not 1st grade.(Compare to 02 Asian Game, we win 1st place, our top PGs like Lee SangMin and Kim SeungHyun was not in there.)

03 Fiba-Asia, we also don't have our top center Seo JangHoon, SF Chun Hee Chul(97 ABC's MVP) .If your team in 03 was B team, our team in 03 was also B team. But Vogel, Fahed, Khoury.. still key players of Lebanon was there.

06 Asian games,
Fadi played 35min and 40min when Lebanon lost to Japan and Kazakhstan.
(while Bang Sung Yoon played only 1 games more than 5 min)
we sucked in that competition for some excuses but by beat Qatar, showed we have still have powers.
And beat Japan more than 10 point while Lebanon lost to Japan.