2024 Paris Olympics Basketball | IBN PH Discussion Thread

[JOI2dWorld2]

For now they are... right beside Australia who beat Serbia just now.

But I symphatize with you that Gilas can achieve more if not for our shitty landscape. It is yet to be seen if we can outperform them with that current group but for now, let's admit that Japan's blueprint is working, while the Philippines is still figuring it out.

the difference is Australia can compete and win against top teams, and still head and shoulders above anyone in Asia, and has the potential to be a top 3 team, yeah their blueprint is working and good for them, and being one of the richest countries in the world it's not surprising, we always have talent it's the politics is what always letting us to get over the hump, now Gilas is moving forward for a better direction, I hope nobody will try to hijack it again

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

the difference is Australia can compete and win against top teams, and still head and shoulders above anyone in Asia, and has the potential to be a top 3 team, yeah their blueprint is working and good for them, and being one of the richest countries in the world it's not surprising, we always have talent it's the politics is what always letting us to get over the hump, now Gilas is moving forward for a better direction, I hope nobody will try to hijack it again

Just a short recap. There are many factors why we f*cked up and Japan is ahead of us. I can name a few:

1) Coach - In World Cup 2023, we had Chot Reyes instead of Tim Cone. We were running a bara bara system on that level. Nuff said.
2) Roster construction - We were only 6 deep. 3 players shouldn't have been included (Japeth, Pogoy, Kiefer), the other 3 underperformed and were inexperienced (Scottie, Perez, Malonzo)
3) Domestic league - The only PBA player who contributed was Junemar. The team was carried by the KBL, BLeague and NBA boys. At that level, the PBA boys flat out froze.
4) Politics - MVP group was more involved during this time. They focused more on marketing and event organization rather than putting the best possible roster out there.
5) Program Vision - After the World Cup, the program wasn't really going anywhere. It was back to zero after that event.
6) Identity - who was that team really? They definitely did not embody PUSO. They all looked confused on the floor. Starstruck. China game was all JC. They did not have an identity.

The new Gilas team is totally different from what we had in the World Cup. Meanwhile Japan just improved on what they had last year by tweaking it. They included Rui Hachimura, Hugh Watanabe and Akira Jacobs on the roster. Now Keisei Tominaga is an NBA player. Retained key players Yudai Baba, Yuta, Kawamura and Togashi. There's continuity. Mind you they beat Cape Verde, Venezuela and Finland.

They're building on something already. Gilas is still rebuilding. Some of our players in the pool aren't even proven pros (Carl), some are still in the amateur ranks (KQ), some are remnants of the past and should be replaced after 2025 (Junemar, Brownlee, Newsome), some are two years away from being two years away (Malonzo, Oftana), some players make you doubt whether they deserve the keys to our offense (Scottie and CJ) . Only players that can really carry the torch to LA 2028 are Kai, AJ and Dwight. Japan's time is now, while Gilas is still in the wait-and-see stage.

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

Just like Dennis the Menace for Germany

If I were SBP (assuming SMC will be in control), i'll pay whatever money to Brian Goorijan after his contract ends with the Boomers. I'll offer him a house, 3 cars, a business, a retirement plan. Maybe fire Chito Victolero and let him coach Magnolia then have him as lead assistant to Tim Cone at Gilas. He'll exponentially improve basketball in the country, he sees the amount of talent we have plus he knows how to navigate politics here. Based on his interviews he knows how important it is not to step on someone's foot.

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

Jokic's national team legacy is on the line this coming Paris Olympics

 

[JOI2dWorld2]

Just a short recap. There are many factors why we f*cked up and Japan is ahead of us. I can name a few:

1) Coach - In World Cup 2023, we had Chot Reyes instead of Tim Cone. We were running a bara bara system on that level. Nuff said.
2) Roster construction - We were only 6 deep. 3 players shouldn't have been included (Japeth, Pogoy, Kiefer), the other 3 underperformed and were inexperienced (Scottie, Perez, Malonzo)
3) Domestic league - The only PBA player who contributed was Junemar. The team was carried by the KBL, BLeague and NBA boys. At that level, the PBA boys flat out froze.
4) Politics - MVP group was more involved during this time. They focused more on marketing and event organization rather than putting the best possible roster out there.
5) Program Vision - After the World Cup, the program wasn't really going anywhere. It was back to zero after that event.
6) Identity - who was that team really? They definitely did not embody PUSO. They all looked confused on the floor. Starstruck. China game was all JC. They did not have an identity.

The new Gilas team is totally different from what we had in the World Cup. Meanwhile Japan just improved on what they had last year by tweaking it. They included Rui Hachimura, Hugh Watanabe and Akira Jacobs on the roster. Now Keisei Tominaga is an NBA player. Retained key players Yudai Baba, Yuta, Kawamura and Togashi. There's continuity. Mind you they beat Cape Verde, Venezuela and Finland.

They're building on something already. Gilas is still rebuilding. Some of our players in the pool aren't even proven pros (Carl), some are still in the amateur ranks (KQ), some are remnants of the past and should be replaced after 2025 (Junemar, Brownlee, Newsome), some are two years away from being two years away (Malonzo, Oftana), some players make you doubt whether they deserve the keys to our offense (Scottie and CJ) . Only players that can really carry the torch to LA 2028 are Kai, AJ and Dwight. Japan's time is now, while Gilas is still in the wait-and-see stage.

teams that i think the current Gilas can beat too, lol classifying a player who was signed as an Exhibit 10 player as an NBA player is a stretch it doesn't even guarantee that the player will make the roster in the opening night, and with all the things you stated here a rebuilding Gilas is not that far ahead of what Japan has achieved, i really can't wait for Olympics and see the actual games and the rebuilding gilas beat a team that is better than any of the team the Japan beat in world cup

 

[Dotch2]

And that's the problem.. if they doing these kind of things in main tournament, upsets are possible... If you are Steve kerr, you don't habit those kind of things.. teams like Germany or even Serbia will kill them with their competency...

Well, the USA can be beaten, we all can agree on that. but teams like Serbia, Greece, Australia, France and all those medal favorites need to have perfect or near-perfect game to beat USA in the MEDAL rounds. Lebron, Steph, KD can afford to have an off-day, kahit sabay sabay silang 3, and USA can still win. I dont think you can say the same thing against Jokic, Giannis or any other Non-USA superstar. Team needs a perfect storm to beat this squad. But im hoping France or Serbia or Greece can brew that.

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

teams that i think the current Gilas can beat too, lol classifying a player who was signed as an Exhibit 10 player as an NBA player is a stretch it doesn't even guarantee that the player will make the roster in the opening night, and with all the things you stated here a rebuilding Gilas is not that far ahead of what Japan has achieved, i really can't wait for Olympics and see the actual games and the rebuilding gilas beat a team that is better than any of the team the Japan beat in world cup

Lol bro. Most Asian countries doesn't even have a player that can land an Exhibit 10 contract. They have 2 players that has/had a substantial NBA careers in Rui and Yuta. Both pure Japanese. How about our best players? JC is a halfie that needs to be paid 1M USD to play for 5 games. Brownlee didn't even see an NBA floor. Kai didn't even get a Summer League invite this year despite a good showing in 1 OQT game. NBA scouts are no slouch, and based on their assessment of our players, no one is NBA level. I am not underestimating Gilas or overhyping Akatsuki Five, I'm just sticking with the facts.

With all the things I stated here, we are still far from what Japan has achieved from the simple fact that getting to the Olympics is extremely difficult especially for Asian countries as only one spot is given to the top Asian team in the World Cup and the rest needs to go through a needle in the OQTs.

News flash! How many Asian countries are in the 2024 Olympics? Only 1 and that's Japan.

You may argue that, "hey we were a win vs South Sudan and Angola away from qualifying". Didn't happen. They led by a huge margin.

"If Kai Sotto wasn't hurt vs Georgia we might have won vs Brazil and eventually beat Latvia in the Finals" Well, they knocked us out cold in the 3rd quarter and we let the game slip away. Didn't happen as well.

We had our chances bro. Us choking or losing those chances is an indication of our preparedness (or lack of it) for the next level. For now let's accept we don't deserve to be there. Those "little things" (aka coaching, culture, roster construction, continuity, vision, preparation, identity) we choose not to address or to ignore are what separates the men from the boys. Let's just enjoy this coming Olympics and watch the 12 best teams in the world slug it out. These teams rose to the occasion when they had a chance.

 

[paliganibossalfrancis2]

Well, the USA can be beaten, we all can agree on that. but teams like Serbia, Greece, Australia, France and all those medal favorites need to have perfect or near-perfect game to beat USA in the MEDAL rounds. Lebron, Steph, KD can afford to have an off-day, kahit sabay sabay silang 3, and USA can still win. I dont think you can say the same thing against Jokic, Giannis or any other Non-USA superstar. Team needs a perfect storm to beat this squad. But im hoping France or Serbia or Greece can brew that.

If Avengers don't win gold the landscape of NBA basketball will drastically change for good. Assuming SGA, Giannis or Jokic wins it, reputation of American players will take a huge hit. They're not pound for pound the best anymore but will be relegated to "among the best." A loss for young American aspirants in NCAA D1 and a win for international pros and amateur ranks because they'll get more looks now from NBA scouts.

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

Well, the USA can be beaten, we all can agree on that. but teams like Serbia, Greece, Australia, France and all those medal favorites need to have perfect or near-perfect game to beat USA in the MEDAL rounds. Lebron, Steph, KD can afford to have an off-day, kahit sabay sabay silang 3, and USA can still win. I dont think you can say the same thing against Jokic, Giannis or any other Non-USA superstar. Team needs a perfect storm to beat this squad. But im hoping France or Serbia or Greece can brew that.

I have a feeling that Germany might be the ones who will win at all or a team can upset USA... Their line up is like the 2004 Argentina, who win the gold medal at Olympics... They have tools in every position and they are not yet reach their peak as a team...

 

[paolylo2]

Well, the USA can be beaten, we all can agree on that. but teams like Serbia, Greece, Australia, France and all those medal favorites need to have perfect or near-perfect game to beat USA in the MEDAL rounds. Lebron, Steph, KD can afford to have an off-day, kahit sabay sabay silang 3, and USA can still win. I dont think you can say the same thing against Jokic, Giannis or any other Non-USA superstar. Team needs a perfect storm to beat this squad. But im hoping France or Serbia or Greece can brew that.

In the 2 games, their most consistent players are Ant, Tatum, Book and AD. No doubt we can expect LeBron to pace himself for tournament basketball... but with a recovering KD, an injured Embiid and Steph still trying to get his rhythm back, it's those other guys that will push USA over. It's just 10 days to go before the start of Olympic basketball and it's such a luxury for them to have three more tune-up games. If guys like Embiid and Steph don't show up, They're not blowing anybody out but shouldn't lose to SSD. Worst case, they lose to both Serbia and Puerto Rico making them play 2 more games for a quarterfinals slot... if they do make it out, they could face France or Serbia again in the quarters... then it's all points difference between the lowest ranked first-placed team and the best-ranked second-placed team in the group stages where teams like Germany and Spain might get the luck of the draw and have a shot at the gold medal game.

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

In the 2 games, their most consistent players are Ant, Tatum, Book and AD. No doubt we can expect LeBron to pace himself for tournament basketball... but with a recovering KD, an injured Embiid and Steph still trying to get his rhythm back, it's those other guys that will push USA over. It's just 10 days to go before the start of Olympic basketball and it's such a luxury for them to have three more tune-up games. If guys like Embiid and Steph don't show up, They're not blowing anybody out but shouldn't lose to SSD. Worst case, they lose to both Serbia and Puerto Rico making them play 2 more games for a quarterfinals slot... if they do make it out, they could face France or Serbia again in the quarters... then it's all points difference between the lowest ranked first-placed team and the best-ranked second-placed team in the group stages where teams like Germany and Spain might get the luck of the draw and have a shot at the gold medal game.

Honestly, I'm against LeBron to join this Olympics... He doesn't need this competition... His legacy is already cemented even not joining international competitions.. It's a lose lose situation for LeBron and the rest of team USA here, everything less than a gold is already disappointment for this team, if they not win gold medal, the members of this team will be remember as the most disappointing team all time.. even Steve kerr, his coaching legacy will be varnish here if they didn't win gold medal...

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

It seems USA taking it seriously in this exhibition match vs Serbia... Especially for Davis, he has an unfinished business vs Jokic.. Also a legendary performance of Curry... Although an exhibition game, USA wants this statement game vs Serbia and Jokic, they proving maybe you are the best player right now, but we are the best basketball nation on earth...

 

[greenarcher2]

https://www.usab.com/gamecast/1886

 

[greenarcher2]

Is KD injured?

 

[JOI2dWorld2]

Lol bro. Most Asian countries doesn't even have a player that can land an Exhibit 10 contract. They have 2 players that has/had a substantial NBA careers in Rui and Yuta. Both pure Japanese. How about our best players? JC is a halfie that needs to be paid 1M USD to play for 5 games. Brownlee didn't even see an NBA floor. Kai didn't even get a Summer League invite this year despite a good showing in 1 OQT game. NBA scouts are no slouch, and based on their assessment of our players, no one is NBA level. I am not underestimating Gilas or overhyping Akatsuki Five, I'm just sticking with the facts.

With all the things I stated here, we are still far from what Japan has achieved from the simple fact that getting to the Olympics is extremely difficult especially for Asian countries as only one spot is given to the top Asian team in the World Cup and the rest needs to go through a needle in the OQTs.

News flash! How many Asian countries are in the 2024 Olympics? Only 1 and that's Japan.

You may argue that, "hey we were a win vs South Sudan and Angola away from qualifying". Didn't happen. They led by a huge margin.

"If Kai Sotto wasn't hurt vs Georgia we might have won vs Brazil and eventually beat Latvia in the Finals" Well, they knocked us out cold in the 3rd quarter and we let the game slip away. Didn't happen as well.

We had our chances bro. Us choking or losing those chances is an indication of our preparedness (or lack of it) for the next level. For now let's accept we don't deserve to be there. Those "little things" (aka coaching, culture, roster construction, continuity, vision, preparation, identity) we choose not to address or to ignore are what separates the men from the boys. Let's just enjoy this coming Olympics and watch the 12 best teams in the world slug it out. These teams rose to the occasion when they had a chance.

its nothing new, NBA's China market is on a decline, so they need a new asian market and Japan fits the bill so one way to do it is to give some of their players token contracts, it happened before with China and now with Japan, Arakji is even more worthy to have a look but of course Lebanon is not a target market, wake me up when this guy is with the opening night roster

 

[Dotch2]

Honestly, I'm against LeBron to join this Olympics... He doesn't need this competition... His legacy is already cemented even not joining international competitions.. It's a lose lose situation for LeBron and the rest of team USA here, everything less than a gold is already disappointment for this team, if they not win gold medal, the members of this team will be remember as the most disappointing team all time.. even Steve kerr, his coaching legacy will be varnish here if they didn't win gold medal...

Lets break down Lebron's "legacy: in the Olympics

2004- LeBronze.
2008 - Gold , but it was Kobe's team
2012 - Gold, but the reign of Spain and Argentina's Golden Generations have already ended , and also, the end of the run of the stronger teams like Serbia and Greece
2016 - Didnt participate
2021 - Didnt participate


2 Golds , 1 Bronze. not bad at all. . Better in count, than the tally of the ghost he is chasing. MJ only has 2 golds. But MJ's golds were somehow more significant, 1984 - Last All-Collegiate tam to win Gold and 1992- Best player in the Dream Team, the GOAT team in history.

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

Lets break down Lebron's "legacy: in the Olympics

2004- LeBronze.
2008 - Gold , but it was Kobe's team
2012 - Gold, but the reign of Spain and Argentina's Golden Generations have already ended , and also, the end of the run of the stronger teams like Serbia and Greece
2016 - Didnt participate
2021 - Didnt participate


2 Golds , 1 Bronze. not bad at all. . Better in count, than the tally of the ghost he is chasing. MJ only has 2 golds. But MJ's golds were somehow more significant, 1984 - Last All-Collegiate tam to win Gold and 1992- Best player in the Dream Team, the GOAT team in history.

Olympics or FIBA achievements are small (unlike in soccer/football) the best players suiting for team USA are Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant.. but those two are not nearly on GOAT conversation.. in football, Messi is considered as GOAT because he won World cup trophy over Ronaldo... The reason why LeBron, Curry , etc.. joined this year because of two reasons.. one is obvious, they don't like what Noah Lyles said about the narrative of NBA champions as world champions.. almost all american NBA players commented against Noah Lyles.. they want to prove to Lyles that his statement is incorrect and second because it is held in Paris.. good destination for big time NBA players.. last two Olympic cities are not accessible for NBA players to participate.. 2016 Rio is not attractive for guys like LeBron or Curry , while in Tokyo, it was not accessible due to covid...

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

The blueprint to beat USA is to play mixed with Euro plus American technique style of game... You can't beat USA just playing on Euro style only... 2004 Argentina and 2021 France beat USA because they have the tools and played with mic of Euro and American style of game.. I see only France and Germany have a chance to beat USA.. but that is a hard task...

 

[Dotch2]

Noah Lyles has a point, he dedicated his whole life training to be World Champion in Athletics. Whereas, the NBA guys wanted to be called "World Champions" as well in a intra-club domestic league. But NBA does have the best players and best teams in the world, so yeah, they also have a point.

However, Olympic winners are not called World Champions, they are Olympic Champions, or Olympic medalists where 2nd and 3rd placers are also celebrated (Silver, Bronze Medalists).

USA sometimes, refer to Silver Medalists as the Best Losers, or Fastest Losers. So yeah, they dont want to lose. They compete like Ricky Bobby: "'If you ain't first, you're last.​" which doesn't sync with the Olympic's spirit of participation.

 

[paolylo2]

Noah Lyles has a point, he dedicated his whole life training to be World Champion in Athletics. Whereas, the NBA guys wanted to be called "World Champions" as well in a intra-club domestic league. But NBA does have the best players and best teams in the world, so yeah, they also have a point.

However, Olympic winners are not called World Champions, they are Olympic Champions, or Olympic medalists where 2nd and 3rd placers are also celebrated (Silver, Bronze Medalists).

USA sometimes, refer to Silver Medalists as the Best Losers, or Fastest Losers. So yeah, they dont want to lose. They compete like Ricky Bobby: "'If you ain't first, you're last.​" which doesn't sync with the Olympic's spirit of participation.

It's not that hard. The "World Championship" is technically the FIBA World Cup in the context of what Lyles was alluding to. There are huge differences determining champions in individual sports as opposed to team sports:

The problem is his sports' World Championships happens every 2 years (except in 2021 because of the pandemic) instead of 4 and in between those odd numbered years is the Olympics so there's a major competition for three straight years with the Olympics sandwiched between the IAAF World Championships before taking a year off where there's still high-level meets all-year round like the Diamond League and the Continental Tour plus other quadrennial and biennial medal events like the Asian Games and the SEA Games. You can't have that in basketball primarily because schedules will never be consolidated if you have that every year, that's why FIFA and its continental minions in world football are corrupt because they find ways to make more competitions for broadcasting revenue.

Unlike the NBA, the best track/field atheltes aren't always in the Diamond League because each athlete has a different schedule depending on how many other events they prioritize (this was where Obiena and that corrupt fucker Ella Juico had problems because it costs money to train and send athletes for high level events). In that sport, one qualifies by just setting the fastest times or throwing/jumping the farthest/highest marks. In team sports, it's beat the other team and have the better W-L record during those international breaks/qualifying windows. Swimming actually tried a compromise between the two with an International Swimming League but the war in Russia + pandemic shut that down.