2024 Collegiate Pre-Season (EcoOil-FilOil & PinoyLiga)

[Metta2]

Philips has high hips so he wont have a strong core naturally . His build wont allow for that

Rodman says hi. What he needs most for defending the post is to learn leverage and positioning. He has fast enough feet to beat bigger guys to spots.

If ever he becomes Fiba eligible, we would need his type of big defender that has quicker (than pinoys) feet. But he has to have better defensive IQ and not rely on athleticism. That's why it's important for him to get reps against bigger, faster, stronger.

 

[Metta2]

UP has to work extra hard defensively in season 87 because Diouf is no longer around to bail out their mistakes. On a different note, I don't understand why Gani Stevens is still in the UAAP. His game is a lot more suited in the NCAA where slow-footed centers are still a thing.

Stevens is a classic football-player (not soccer) turned basketball player. If we add up all his basketball-game experience, it's not much at all.

I think he looks slow because most of the time he doesn't have proper positioning. I won't be surprised if he eventually develops as an effective big. The problem is with a loaded UP team, he won't have a chance to expedite his game reps in college.

 

[Tuck2]

Rodman says hi. What he needs most for defending the post is to learn leverage and positioning. He has fast enough feet to beat bigger guys to spots.

If ever he becomes Fiba eligible, we would need his type of big defender that has quicker (than pinoys) feet. But he has to have better defensive IQ and not rely on athleticism. That's why it's important for him to get reps against bigger, faster, stronger.

idk but dennis rodman had a long torso which is why he was strong. Having long legs like Kai will always make it harder to be as strong

 

[OverratedTabBaldwin2]

Stevens is a classic football-player (not soccer) turned basketball player. If we add up all his basketball-game experience, it's not much at all.

I think he looks slow because most of the time he doesn't have proper positioning. I won't be surprised if he eventually develops as an effective big. The problem is with a loaded UP team, he won't have a chance to expedite his game reps in college.

Stevens is a situational big. He's effective against traditional UAAP teams with slow and lumbering bigs but would be ineffective against La Salle's FIBA-sized lineup. UP is correct loading up on players because you need lineup versatility in today's game.

 

[TheRodster212]

Maybe unpopular opinion but I like these teams loading up on recruits. Watching the filoil the size, athleticism, skills of teams. looks like what you would see in NCAA D2, UP at some points was fielding team of starting 5 of guys around 6’4+ sometimes.

 

[Tuck2]

Stevens is a situational big. He's effective against traditional UAAP teams with slow and lumbering bigs but would be ineffective against La Salle's FIBA-sized lineup. UP is correct loading up on players because you need lineup versatility in today's game.

I think he’s much better than given credit for maybe it’s because i watched him live twice when he was with UE . The game when they beat dlsu in araneta he was amazing at boxing out and screening while contesting without fouling. He matched up well with Dlsu’s bigs then given i don’t think philips played .

He had a good pick and roll partner and with Villegas spacing the floor he had good enough hands to finish.

The second best player in the uaap is probably Philips and it’s not fair to compare the other local bigs to him. Stevens and Alter can hold their own against anyone else .

 

[xenoloxy2]

Maybe unpopular opinion but I like these teams loading up on recruits. Watching the filoil the size, athleticism, skills of teams. looks like what you would see in NCAA D2, UP at some points was fielding team of starting 5 of guys around 6’4+ sometimes.

even some D1 teams aren't as tall considering there are like 300 of them,

 

[Metta2]

idk but dennis rodman had a long torso which is why he was strong. Having long legs like Kai will always make it harder to be as strong

Hips are high but he's got thick legs that doesn't make it that noticeable. Pistons era shorts show it more than baggy Bulls era.

Rodman and Pingris are good examples of how leverage enables lighter players to match up against heavier opponents. Use quick feet to get to positions then use leverage and hustle.

And we're talking about Mike P not Kai. Kai doesn't have the necessary quick feet to compensate for the long(er) legs so he will always be at a disadvantage.

 

[TheRodster212]

even some D1 teams aren't as tall considering there are like 300 of them,

Yeah though the athleticism, skill and build of D1 players at least those that are offered scholarships and actually play are different. Even Dalph’s team isn’t that high D1 but they would be pretty strong in the uaap, guards are pinoy height but the athleticism and body types are completely on a different level

 

[Metta2]

Stevens is a situational big. He's effective against traditional UAAP teams with slow and lumbering bigs but would be ineffective against La Salle's FIBA-sized lineup. UP is correct loading up on players because you need lineup versatility in today's game.

I for one believe there is a case of "loading up too much." Happens all the time in the nba. UP having only 1 chip despite having a loaded team for several years is telling.

 

[Metta2]

Yeah though the athleticism, skill and build of D1 players at least those that are offered scholarships and actually play are different. Even Dalph’s team isn’t that high D1 but they would be pretty strong in the uaap, guards are pinoy height but the athleticism and body types are completely on a different level

Correct. The physical traits (athleticism, speed, strength) is the main difference in levels. Euro/Aussie leagues have as much size and skill as the nba, the special sauce is the physical traits.

And the thing with a league that has higher athleticism is, you have to match the baseline requirement to be effective on defense. That's why all homegrown pinoys that are given a chance in D1 are athletic (aside from having height).

 

[OverratedTabBaldwin2]

So UP over-recruiting over the years only resulted in one ring, but if they don't over-recruit they'd have multiple championships? Got it.

 

[Metta2]

So UP over-recruiting over the years only resulted in one ring, but if they don't over-recruit they'd have multiple championships? Got it.

Happens all the time in US D1, the NBA, and whenever Team USA gets bounced by other countries.

Sometimes less is more.

 

[OverratedTabBaldwin2]

Happens all the time in US D1, the NBA, and whenever Team USA gets bounced by other countries.

Sometimes less is more.

USA environment=Philippine environment
Got it.

 

[athleticmind20052]

Correct. The physical traits (athleticism, speed, strength) is the main difference in levels. Euro/Aussie leagues have as much size and skill as the nba, the special sauce is the physical traits.

And the thing with a league that has higher athleticism is, you have to match the baseline requirement to be effective on defense. That's why all homegrown pinoys that are given a chance in D1 are athletic (aside from having height).

Not all the time. There is a difference in skill too. In the international game there is more passing than dribbling, more outside shooting (although the US has caught up). That’s why some unathletic Euro guys make it, they compensate for lack of athleticism by being very, very good in certain aspects of international play that are not very much cultivated in the US.

 

[athleticmind20052]

I think he’s much better than given credit for maybe it’s because i watched him live twice when he was with UE . The game when they beat dlsu in araneta he was amazing at boxing out and screening while contesting without fouling. He matched up well with Dlsu’s bigs then given i don’t think philips played .

He had a good pick and roll partner and with Villegas spacing the floor he had good enough hands to finish.

The second best player in the uaap is probably Philips and it’s not fair to compare the other local bigs to him. Stevens and Alter can hold their own against anyone else .

Thick bigs are bad matchups for DLSU’s frontline. That’s why fat Gani Stevens had a good game against DLSU in S85.

Phillips is able to push Malick, with his thin frame and high center of gravity, on the post. When Udodo matched up with Mike, Mike wasn’t able to do his think. He even had this possession where he ran out of time trying to push his way against and around Udodo, to no avail. While Udodo is no Malick Diouf, he’s a better matchup against the La Salle bigs.

Alter is physically there. It’s his skills and mental game that needs work. The guy easily bites on fakes and can be too aggressive defending the post, leading to fouls. At least now, he’s gotten faster laterally so he’ll be able to defend face-up attacks better. But he’d still be caught dead in a traditional, back to the basket attack. Luckily, Mike doesn’t have a lot of back to the basket moves, he gets away with size and athleticism. But Agunnane has moves and should be a good test for Alter.

 

[Metta2]

USA environment=Philippine environment
Got it.

Your favorite coach led a team of Pinoy college kids and did well against national teams of pros. Also led no-name New Zealanders and reached the semifinals of Fiba World Cup.

The right less is better than the wrong more.

You're a troll. Got it.

 

[Metta2]

Not all the time. There is a difference in skill too. In the international game there is more passing than dribbling, more outside shooting (although the US has caught up). That’s why some unathletic Euro guys make it, they compensate for lack of athleticism by being very, very good in certain aspects of international play that are not very much cultivated in the US.

That's my point, skill in europe and elsewhere is sometimes higher. If skill was the overriding criteria, there would be much more Europeans in the nba.

Unathletic euros are rarely given chances in the nba no matter how good they are in Europe. Just recently, Micic who is arguably the best player in Euroleague in recent years is an nba benchwarmer. People will mention Luka and Jokic as unathletic (and is the reason why they got drafted low, it rarely works out for guys like them). Those guys maybe slow but they are huge, strong, and are generational offensive players.

 

[thatweirdguy2]

That's my point, skill in europe and elsewhere is sometimes higher. If skill was the overriding criteria, there would be much more Europeans in the nba.

Unathletic euros are rarely given chances in the nba no matter how good they are in Europe. Just recently, Micic who is arguably the best player in Euroleague in recent years is an nba benchwarmer. People will mention Luka and Jokic as unathletic (and is the reason why they got drafted low, it rarely works out for guys like them). Those guys maybe slow but they are huge, strong, and are generational offensive players.

This. Athleticism isn't just jumping high and running fast. Jokic is freakishly strong and very coordinated for someone his size. Luka too. He may look chubby but his deceptively strong and agile. I remember watching his first few games and thinking how it was so hard for him to break down his defender and was using almost all the moves on his arsenal with minimal effectiveness. Then dude adapted by using less ball handling skills and more on changing his pace/ bumping opponents off.

 

[Rds2]

This. Athleticism isn't just jumping high and running fast. Jokic is freakishly strong and very coordinated for someone his size. Luka too. He may look chubby but his deceptively strong and agile. I remember watching his first few games and thinking how it was so hard for him to break down his defender and was using almost all the moves on his arsenal with minimal effectiveness. Then dude adapted by using less ball handling skills and more on changing his pace/ bumping opponents off.

I have a bit of different opinion. Yes Jokic and Luka are sublime offensive players but it helps that they play in the NBA where defenders cannot bump them back.

Luka has been good in Fiba but I dont think his drives while putting the defender on his hip wouldve been as easy in Fina. Jokic I dont even remember having a dominant game in Fiba. I think Fiba is harder for Jokic. More allowed physicality on defense. Stronger centers.

Reminds mr of the Olympics where Draymond Green was benched but guys like McGee and DeAndre Jordan were effective. In the NBA the McGees and DeAndres are being dropped for the Chet Holmgrens. Its not hard to see why Jokic is dominating in the NBA. Even LA kept on pushing AD against Jokic when it was clear it was the McGees and Howards that were the better matchup.