2023 Lithuanian NT

[Shawshank2]

NT is not clubs when you can buy tottaly new team in one summer,NT its what you have best at that time and NT plays accordingly.

We dont have elite playmakers or elite shooter or elite defenders all those dinosour experts imaginable playing style is just fantasies as always.

Only cluesless crazy fans can believe playing players from lkl or ncaa instead of nba starting 5 players will help our NT to win


Dinosour expert i have bad news for u can cry all you want here but next summer Jonas and Domas again gonna play 25min+

Because they are nr 1 and nr 2 ltu players at this moment in time.

Can coach find better defensive rotation according to opponents for last 5-6minutes sure,but first 33-34minutes nothing will drastically change.

NT was very close in 2022. With all 3 medalist teams we played till last seconds with 2 overtime games included.

Keep on building,stay the course,bring a 1-2 new littles pieces in 9-12 rotation players place with needed skillsets and go to war again in 2023 with hopefully one year smarter Jokubaitis/Brazdeikis/Grigonis desicions in game endings.

 

[Straight forward2]

You have a sloppy mouth, calling this and that fantasies, but at the end of the day you feed what I preach. It's just that you're so slow that for you things must bump into your forehead. Your "passport" mind and lack of actual observation and interpretation of players don't allow you to see things. You're just watching at players age or whatever. I would suggest to seek actual scouting, direct observation. Not age, but actual level, IQ, decision making, offensive and defensive abilities matter. That's why you were completely lost with Iggy when you said he's 4 and I was repeating he can even play 2, he's a swingman. That's why I knew he will be one of the keys while you were mumbling "let's wait this and that" (many did, if it makes you feel better) and he won't even come cause everything federation does is fake (I won't even comment that...). That's why your mumbling about "how 21yo Jokubaitis will be lost in key games" was also trash cause you couldn't merit his actual level. He provided 13pts, 5as, 15ef in the key game.

Nor you could understand what I was preaching about D. Giedraitis. His IQ and defence and decision making until you and everyone else seen it before their nose in Lietkabelis. That's how it works with provincial folks as you, bro If shit doesn't exist in your yard, it doesn't exist

Now, if you think that Tubelis is another random LKL player, you are simply lost yet another time. That's your normal condition, bro Unfortunately. Even last year, Tubelis was top 5-7 NCAA player per production, per efficiency if to go deep into the stats. IMO, if current Tubelis would play for say Liekabelis, there's a good chance he would be MVP of LKL. He could easily snatch a role in Zalgiris in EL this season. Easily. F.e. Petrusev was really good in NCAA and he was ready for EL offensively, but the problem is that he's a nightmare defensively and he's soft. Tubelis is ready at both ends of the flour and he's tough, more athletic. He will more or less totally dominate NCAA this season and he will come to the NT likely as the 3rd best big in the NT. OK, that's only likely, cause he may struggle at first to some degree, but there's no reason why he couldn't establish a role for some 10min. I don't see better defensive bigs in the NT than Tubelis. He is more athletic, tougher than E. Zukauskas. He can chase guards and block their lay-ups, he can provide help defense cause he reads the defenses pretty nicely. You'll see as always. Just wait for your provincial cycle of acknowledging things. It's not very fast you know

About winning...I didn't say we are going to freakin' win shit instantly with whatever we will add to the NT. Come on. Serbia, Slovenia, Greece are going down with superstars...We can lose even if Jokubaitis ill turn out to be at Saras' level in his prime and Buzelis as NBA superstar. We can see it with Micic and Jokic. Nothing is given. My point is that we need changes nevertheless. As Kleiza said, this shit with building around or playing together with 2 offensive bigs is not working, so why to continue of this? For how many tournaments more? We have failures in 2019, 2021, 2022. Shit's not working. So we need adjustments. You are correct on saying we have to keep on building. Be it slow steps or bigger than it may look, it has to be done. And no we don't have to play both JV and Domas for 26min. Not even Scariola played Willy so long as his biggest name internationally. He played 21mpg and there was no Sabonis around him. Whatever the minutes would be, I think Sabonis has to play more, and these 2 should mainly (or even entirely) share 5 spot. That's my recipe anyway.

My rotation for 2023 wold be like that:

4: Kuzminskas, Tubelis + someone depending on circumstances
5 Sabonis, Valanciunas

IMO, these 4 pieces are best for our 4-5 rotation.

 

[Shawshank2]

my passport data is used because most NT coaches does that. Not just lithuanian coaches or its just my imagination.Thats data and facts.

I asked name me from best teams who used students u-22 in main rotation? you name like 3-4players in 6 best teams other main 30+ players in those 6 teams wasnt raw students. Winning teams coaches uses mature dudes to win.

Its not my problem if you cant see that.

D.Giedraitis did he played in NT at age of 20-22? No he didnt. Maybe just maybe he will make the team at 23 next summer like my formula showed ?

I dont get why you are dancing here about him if data formula was right and you were wrong again as always putting him way prematurely in Nt like at 21?

How manny points in eurobasket 2022 was scored by your projected kids from 2019/2020 D.Giedraitis,Velicka,Marciulionis,Tubelis.Sedekerskis,Kulboka,Sirvydis ?

thats some of them one day gonna make NT sure,but our conversation always was it will happen before 22 or after 23. So far you were wrong alot and historical data way more accurate.


Your Kleiza said about Tubelis in recent podcast: " can he shoot? if not he wont be productive in fiba at PF position" .There are reasons why fast big like Garuba with 2m03 dont play PF for Spain or Domas have struggles at PF too.Because they cant shoot !

In that podcast they decided maybe he can mobile C for defence ale Garuba,but not PF in 2 diffrent podcasts they had similiar opinion about Tubelis. You are putting one more non shooting big in PF just because you can see he wont get no minutes at C.

But writting that im sorry i dont see some ncaa kid or champion league players Kuzminskas/Bendzius type playing more minutes over good nba player Domas at PF. Thats makes no sense and 3 diffrent NT coaches 2019,2021,2022 agreed with that.

If NT would have Kleiza/Markannen/Fontechia/J.Hernangomez nba level shooting big type sure i could see what u talking,but with that average crap we have at PF in 2022 compared to Domas level unlikely to see big changes in PF position in 2023-2024.

Butautas said same thing according to what we have in PF/C right now 9 of 10 coaches would do same thing what 3 diffrent 2019-2021-2022 coaches choosen to do.From info i have now my prediction would be:


Failing in 2022 was result of super unlucky draw but not overall play of NT. When its like that NT dont neeed to do big changes,just make little changes at bench/role players.Needed level was there to beat anybody.

 

[Straight forward2]

No. Kazlauskas himself said. I don't need players passports. I correctly remember this saying. Off course, in some other cases he emphasized experience and so on, but my and I think his point is that some players have the package early.

I don't care when D.Giedraitis, or Tubelis, or Marciulionis will make NT (if they make NT, but I say they will). My point was that they have IQ and skill to be treated as those who should attract attention early. I think NT coaches overlooked D. Giedraitis and didn't invite him to FIBA window camps, while they could do it 2 years ago generally. His D, IQ, decision making, solid shooting and calm nerves down the stretch were already there back then. But he played in ACB and our coaches didn't know him or just thought he's too young. What I was asking is to have him and test him in the camp. You can cut a player if he disappoints (Kulboka's case), but have him and test him. Have best prospects tested. That's why I think Maksvytis made a mistake not inviting Sirvydis. Just give him a chance to run up and down the court in the camp and see what is his level.

I never was claiming that these players should necessary MAKE NT this or that year. I'm asking for the best of them to have a chance to show up in the camp.

Besides, I think D. Giedraitis, if was healthy, could make NT this summer. He's better than Zemaitis. I think his performance would had been better than R. Giedraitis too. He was trash in Eurobasket. Not even talking about the fact that Iggy could easily make NT 2021 as 22yo.

So you're saying Garuba and Giannis are trash at 4 cause they can't shoot? I disagree. Obviously Tubelis is not as good as even Garuba, but you get the point. They can play D, they can pass, and they can penetrate and score (in Giannis and Tubelis case and not so much in Garuba's). What Kleiza and almost all bb community is missing that Tubelis is a good or very solid defensive player. People still can't get that. Similarly to how majority of LTU fans were not aware of the maturity level of 20yo D. Giedraitis. They simply didn't realize it.

Again, yes Tubelis is not ideal piece at 4 cause he lacks shooting, but under current circumstances I believe he would be very nice piece nevertheless. IMO, people underrate the offensive versatility that potentially Domas and Tubelis could provide playing together. Tubelis specially moves without the ball well. Nor Domas, nor Speically JV does that. Both can pass. Both can penetrate and have pretty quick step. Our transition basketball, which we lacked so much against Spain (no easy points), would surely be better. Maybe, I'm wrong, and he will be too raw, will turn the ball over, will look a bit lost mentally, but my projection is that he should be able to play at least solid 10minutes.

Yes, Butautas said that? So what? Is he a good coach? Hiring Mazutis and Jomantas at 1 in 2009? He's a horrible coach. That's reality. In 2007-2008 it was Jasikevicius' team. He simply run the team and that's the story. Once Jasikevicius was out, we seen the best of Butautas.His club coaching career was trash too. BTW, Adomaitis played JV for 22min. If he had benched him down the stretch it could be very close to how I imagine JV should be used in contemporary basketball, 14-18mpg.

So, you're saying we don't need adjustment? Let's do all the same and continue to try to brake the wall with our heads? That's your plan? Didn't you see that JV can guard zero the fuck of pick and roll and it's not getting any better in upcoming years? You don't think it's a problem? Brown definitely thinks it's not a problem, LOL. Plenty of solid guards will thrive against JV's defense. At least you agreed that he's unplayable down the stretch.

All this talk about super unlucky...We simply couldn't do it. We could easily beat some of these powerhouses in the group. But we didn't. The draw has little to do with it. We seen Poland taking down Slovenia...We simply couldn't get our shit together. And the very big reason why - our bigs are as trashy defenders as it gets and without defensive bigs we can barely dream about winning, IMO. Besides, we lack defensive guards too. No question.

The draw...You still having the wet dream how JV leads NT to glory...I would suggest to get it over already....

 

[Shawshank2]

Lithuania is down 2 pts 5 seconds to go in second overtime vs bronze medal winning team and Butkevicius had wide open look..

Lithuania is down to 2 pts again 5 seconds to go againts eventual champions and Jokubaitis have nice open look to win ...

If those 2 open good shots goes in we would have beat gold and bronze medal winners.

Only emotional brainless fans can shout we need to fire everybody,nothing was working and destroy entire team that was one open made shot to eliminate team that won gold.

Bring same main 9 players back, bring same coaching staff in 2023 .

Add needed type role players in last 3 places ( like Ulanovas) and keep on building chemistry between same core of players.

I'm all in continuation in such cases.

It's was painfull defeats, but to get such death group and after that gold medal winners in first playoffs game devil himself made this draw for our NT .

even with all that draw medalist/best teams needed overtime games to beat ltu NT with some luck on their side too that those 2 open shots didn't went in ...

 

[Dreamcatcher2]

Lithuania is down 2 pts 5 seconds to go in second overtime vs bronze medal winning team and Butkevicius had wide open look..

Lithuania is down to 2 pts again 5 seconds to go againts eventual champions and Jokubaitis have nice open look to win ...

If those 2 open good shots goes in we would have beat gold and bronze medal winners.

Only emotional brainless fans can shout we need to fire everybody,nothing was working and destroy entire team that was one open made shot to eliminate team that won gold.

Bring same main 9 players back, bring same coaching staff in 2023 .

Add needed type role players in last 3 places ( like Ulanovas) and keep on building chemistry between same core of players.

I'm all in continuation in such cases.

It's was painfull defeats, but to get such death group and after that gold medal winners in first playoffs game devil himself made this draw for our NT .

even with all that draw medalist/best teams needed overtime games to beat ltu NT with some luck on their side too that those 2 open shots didn't went in ...

In the group those Slovenia, Germany and France played well so tough losses were not bad. But in 1/8 Spain didn't play well at all (their worst game not including against Belgium), couldn't make long shots, Brown wake up only in the end. And what happened? Still it was the same close game and tough loss. Not being able to win against big teams for a while and loosing all the endings show that smth is wrong mentally.

 

[Straight forward2]

In the group those Slovenia, Germany and France played well so tough losses were not bad. But in 1/8 Spain didn't play well at all (their worst game not including against Belgium), couldn't make long shots, Brown wake up only in the end. And what happened? Still it was the same close game and tough loss. Not being able to win against big teams for a while and loosing all the endings show that smth is wrong mentally.

No leaders from experienced players. From those who in prime + bad defense. Why Brown killed us? Because our p'n'r D is trash.

 

[Dreamcatcher2]

No leaders from experienced players. From those who in prime + bad defense. Why Brown killed us? Because our p'n'r D is trash.

He killed us not only because of bad pick and roll def but also because guards are bad defensively. In the first half it was once that Brown shot two 3pt in a row from the corner and all the time he was wide open like 5 sec...But missed. If he would have done his best all the game then i don't think the close ending would happened.

Also lack of toughness of course. JV is out of the game sitting on the bench and we suck at rebounding. 203 Garuba makes a tip behind 2011 Sabonis' back in a crucial moment...Previous NT's generation had better defense, more toughness, winning mentality, better coach and over performing Kalnietis.

 

[Straight forward2]

He killed us not only because of bad pick and roll def but also because guards are bad defensively. In the first half it was once that Brown shot two 3pt in a row from the corner and all the time he was wide open like 5 sec...But missed. If he would have done his best all the game then i don't think the close ending would happened.

Also lack of toughness of course. JV is out of the game sitting on the bench and we suck at rebounding. 203 Garuba makes a tip behind 2011 Sabonis' back in a crucial moment...Previous NT's generation had better defense, more toughness, winning mentality, better coach and over performing Kalnietis.

Off course, it's on guards too. But when we had true defensive big Javtokas, he was hiding Jasikevicius and other players defensive issues nicely. Now we badly need defensive big. Now our main center is one of the biggest targets himself in entire Eurobasket. Teams like "It's Lithuania? Attack JV"

And you right about the latter part. After Kalnietis it was huge hole of high level athletic guards. Grigonis is just soft shooter, he can't go inside with force and he has been horrible finishing the games in Eurobasket. Could only take some long distance shots and couldn't make it. When 21 and 23 years old players are trying to close the games (they did it successfully 2 times in exhibition games against Spain, but in the official game couldn't do it even if were close...) it is obvious we don't have single matured guard who we can trust in these moments.

On other hand, Jokubaitis and Brazdeikis showed great promise for the nearest future. Improved defense and maturity of these 2 should be good news for the NT.

 

[Shawshank2]

Beat Scariola Spain in playoofs games it takes alot. Spains diffrent type zone defences,box in 1 shit bamboozled everybody in eurobasket 2022 including good nba players.

Scariola game plans was fantastic all tournament long.


LTU coaching staff plan in last 5 minutes in close games was playing Domas at C like Spain with Garuba this is right desicion .

Diffrence between Garuba at C and Sabonis at C . Spain has way better defending guards compared to ltu weak defenders. Its not just Diaz others spaniards guards too is better,more aggresive defenders .

Our guards gets pick and dont even try to fight over them,always leave our centers againts scoring guards in open space. Diaz or Albicy look how they fight picks and how our Lekavicius/Jokubaitis does its like night and day.

If everytime spain guards would leave Garuba defend Schroder,Fournier,Ponitkas types in open space 1 vs 1 he wouldnt look that good defender either.

 

[Straight forward2]

I can only say that in 00's we had what's today is the best model of basketball. Defensive bigs + perimeter leader players. We had that - E. Zukauskas/Javtokas/M.Zukauskas + Saras, Macas, Siska, Stombergas. We were ahead of time in 2000-2004.

In recent years our team was anachronism...We fell back to 90's...That's our bb tragedy.

 

[Shawshank2]

in 00s centers didnt needed to defend pikenrool in every single possesion like in 2020s.Diffrent game,where we are behind is our guards tallent,not centers tallent.

E.Zukauskas was playing flat rim protection defence all his career starting from Neptunas days in 90s.

Eurelka was very good goalkeeper in sireika zone defence playing with 4 guards in 2003-2004,but today he would be as bad in pikenrool defender as Jonas is.

Our guards tallents is the biggest NT problem compared to 00s.

Like level wise nobody was comparing Sabonis/Ilgaukas to Javtokas/Zukauskas in late 90s/early 00s.

Its same nonsense if somebody imagines that Javtokas/Zukauskas is even close to level Jonas/Domas have.

Simply Jonas/Domas is playing in worst era for centers and with way less backourt tallent compared to Zukauskas/Javtokas.

 

[Shawshank2]

just imagine 2m18 E.Zukauskas is our center and Lekavicius/Jokubaitis after pick leaves him to defend Brown or Doncic near 3 point line 1 vs 1.

Its funny just to imagine thats what we asking from Jonas and Domas stop those elite guards in open space.

Things that even todays best nba center Jokic cant do. But ale 00s way less skilled centers Zukauskas/Javtokas would? yeah right

 

[Straight forward2]

All Spain, France, Germany had defensive bigs. We didn't. Off course, all these teams had better defensive guards too. Our problem is that our current team is primarily offensive and without obvious leader who could scream for the ball like Jasikevicius or even Kalnietis did in the crunch time. Even if it's deep and talented team overall, it's very difficult to expect wins with such concept. We need to add more defense and to find our leader offensively. Most realistic scenario that it will be Jokubaitis and Brazdeikis. Those can take the ball and go to the basket to make something out of nothing.

We need this action in the official game:

https://twitter.com/Gardas111/status/1560334719027494913

 

[Shawshank2]

Give 00s LTU elite guards Jonas + Domas instead of Zukauskas+Javtokas LTU NT would have won not 3 medals but 5-6 medals in 00s.

 

[Straight forward2]

Give 00s LTU elite guards Jonas + Domas instead of Zukauskas+Javtokas LTU NT would have won not 3 medals but 5-6 medals in 00s.

I disagree. Javtokas was really athletic and smart defender. He was not only really good p'n'r defender, but also provided good help D and so on. He was perfect fit to that 00's team. Our defense without Javtokas (or even Eurelka who's size was ridiculous and he was monster blocker, and that made difference even in p'n'r D). Leave Jasikevicius to guard p'n'r with Jonas or Domas and our defence is complete nightmare. The reason why NT was so good in 00's was Javtokas generally and even Eurelka. Those made real defensive impact. As Kleiza said, Javtokas was hiding Jasikevicius and Kleiza himself with his D. Current Valanciunas and Jasikevicius duet defensively would be something incredibly horrible. You highly underrate Javtokas, and even Eurelka a bit.

 

[Shawshank2]

in 00s NT played alot of zone and pikenrool offence was 10 miles behind what it is in 2020s

How much do remember Javtokas or Zukauskas guarding 1 vs 1 Parker or Spanoulis near 3point line? In 00s Zone C rarely needs to do that.

compare Javtokas offensive abilities to Valanciunas

is like compare Vidas Ginevicius to Sarunas Marciulionis


Gasol was scoring 30pts againts Zukauskas/Javtokas doesnt matter. But Valanciunas/Sabonis would make Gasol work in defence alot.

Javtokas 2010 version was great defensively,but let say 2007-2008 he was just backup playing 15min behind Brothers/Songaila types.

You putting way too much glory to Javtokas and NT 00s achievements. Javtokas peak in Nt 2010-2012 when he was main center.

 

[Straight forward2]

Javtokas wasn't even in the NT in 2003.

Rememeber 2008 Olympics, semis against Spain? Javtokas was doing it all! He was terrific. Solid, tough d. He slowed down Pau to 19pts, Marc had only 6. He himself dropped 15pts. We were very very close to be in the final if not few stupid mistakes and so on. Even in 2004 Javtokas presence was very nice defensively. With him we were really athletic team. He was blocking Duncan He was more athletic than JV and Domas overall.

Prime Javtokas in 2008-2010 is something that we badly lack...We know what Spain did with JV in 2016...Humiliated us by 50pts...Pau gathered 34eff in 23minutes...Also in 2015 Pau dropped 25 on JV and swept Lithuania.

 

[Shawshank2]

Pau dropped 37pts in 2003 final,Pau dropped 25pts almost every time he wanted on us.

P.Gasol was dominant in 4 querter in 2008 semifinal main reason spain won being behind most of the game and fauled out both Javtokas and Petravicius.I watched that game in pandemic so i remember well.

Javtokas was also on the team in 2015, 2016 and he is same age like Gasol both born 1980.Why he allowed Pau dominate in 2015 and 2016? if saw that kid Jonas couldnt handle him?

Its a myth that any lithuanian center played good defence on P.Gasol. Never saw that and watched all ltu spain games.

 

[Shawshank2]

I believe that 2 nba level 18pts average centers would help NT win more medals that 2 defensive type 6pts average euroleague centers.

No double teams for Jonas and Domas because shooters all around them in ltu NT 00s? Easy game for our nba centers compare to todays double teams they are facing.

Nobody would double team Domas or Jonas when Saras,Siska,Macas is waiting for a ball. Easily atleast 2 medals more.