19th Asian Games 2023 in Hangzhou China

[reamily2]

Just saw the replay. It seems the Thais played a good physical defense. We couldn't get a real big run. The Thais have real good shooters and indeed early on JF caused some open shots. The triangle showed its age here. Although they had some 3s the sets were all primarily for inside looks. There seemed to be some open 3s that were passed up for inside looks that at times didnt materialize. I hope TC tweaks his triangle play to get some more looks at the 3. It seemed we're like the opposite of the U16 team in the JP game. They had a very big rebounding deficit but won it with timely shooting. In this game we had a very big rebounding lead but couldn't pull away because of inefficient shooting.

Got your point.. sharing to you the game 8 years ago between us and japan.. so fast forward to 2023.. we see a team adpated the modern ball..

https://www.fiba.basketball/asia/2015/0210/Japan-Philippines#|tab=boxscore

 

[IPC2]

After Japan beat Vietnam 7-0, and Nepal drew with Bangladesh, we just need a win against Myanmar to advance.

We're up 3-0 in 60 minutes. Sarina Bolden gets a penalty in the 18th minute, and Sara Eggesvik scores in minutes 59 and 60.

I think we're going to advance to knockouts.

And we advance to knockouts. Great game from the girls.

Well, our opponent is Japan, so no pressure. Just do their best.

 

[Dotch2]

Recency bias on full display here. We're you asleep when Diaz won the Olympic gold just 2 years ago? On top of that, Petecio and Paalam winning silver and Marcial winning bronze.

EJ Obiena;s feat in pole vaulting is significant because not that many Asian ( probably none) can do what he has accomplished. Only GOAT Duplantis vaulted higher than him in the last 2 years. An Asian ranked number 2 in pole vault is like an Asian running a sub-10 in 100m, It's so rare,

 

[Giannis34GOD2]

EJ Obiena;s feat in pole vaulting is significant because not that many Asian ( probably none) can do what he has accomplished. Only GOAT Duplantis vaulted higher than him in the last 2 years. An Asian ranked number 2 in pole vault is like an Asian running a sub-10 in 100m, It's so rare,

One of the events China didn’t focus to win… hehehehehhehe… I admire China how they develop athletes… Legends are made, not born…. They are already 90 gold medals in just 4-5 days of competition…

 

[OverratedTabBaldwin2]

EJ Obiena;s feat in pole vaulting is significant because not that many Asian ( probably none) can do what he has accomplished. Only GOAT Duplantis vaulted higher than him in the last 2 years. An Asian ranked number 2 in pole vault is like an Asian running a sub-10 in 100m, It's so rare,

Exactly.

 

[System2]

Got your point.. sharing to you the game 8 years ago between us and japan.. so fast forward to 2023.. we see a team adpated the modern ball..

https://www.fiba.basketball/asia/2015/0210/Japan-Philippines#|tab=boxscore

This 2015 Gilas team coached by Tab shot 31 3pt attempts in this game. For the whole FIBA Asia 2015 tournament, Tab Baldwin was playing a modern 5 out system where every player can shoot the 3. We had the second highest 3pt attempts in that tournament, and the proof is in the pudding (Silver Medal with arguably second tier PBA Talent because of the lack of marquee SMC Players.)

He also adapted his style to take the strengths of the players. And here is how:
For all the faults of the Dribble Drive Offense, Tab Baldwin actually ran the DDO in around 50percent of their possessions in 2015, taking advantage of a prime Jason Castro and modern stretch dribbling big in Andray Blatche. However, he also played this in tandem with his swing offense as well so that there is variety in our offense and that we are more unpredictable. He also ran very good zone offense and we were a team that you cannot play a zone against. We played the percentages well and this is even with a ball dominant Andray Blatche

As you also guys have observed, it is a stark contrast against Tim Cone's Gilas now who seldom sets opportunities for threes, this current iteration of Gilas is now playing like a team from the 2000's-early 2010's.

 

[reamily2]

This 2015 Gilas team coached by Tab shot 31 3pt attempts in this game. For the whole FIBA Asia 2015 tournament, Tab Baldwin was playing a modern 5 out system where every player can shoot the 3. We had the second highest 3pt attempts in that tournament, and the proof is in the pudding (Silver Medal with arguably second tier PBA Talent because of the lack of marquee SMC Players.)

He also adapted his style to take the strengths of the players. And here is how:
For all the faults of the Dribble Drive Offense, Tab Baldwin actually ran the DDO in around 50percent of their possessions in 2015, taking advantage of a prime Jason Castro and modern stretch dribbling big in Andray Blatche. However, he also played this in tandem with his swing offense as well so that there is variety in our offense and that we are more unpredictable. He also ran very good zone offense and we were a team that you cannot play a zone against. We played the percentages well and this is even with a ball dominant Andray Blatche

As you also guys have observed, it is a stark contrast against Tim Cone's Gilas now who seldom sets opportunities for threes, this current iteration of Gilas is now playing like a team from the 2000's-early 2010's.

I really wondered why we never laud Dondon Hontiveros in the same level as we had with RDO, Alapag. Chan and Pingris where he was a fixture of national teams oin 3 era's Jong era, CHot Team Pilipinas era and the Gilas era and he epitome what a Filipino shooter was in this game..

 

[Metta2]

This 2015 Gilas team coached by Tab shot 31 3pt attempts in this game. For the whole FIBA Asia 2015 tournament, Tab Baldwin was playing a modern 5 out system where every player can shoot the 3. We had the second highest 3pt attempts in that tournament, and the proof is in the pudding (Silver Medal with arguably second tier PBA Talent because of the lack of marquee SMC Players.)

He also adapted his style to take the strengths of the players. And here is how:
For all the faults of the Dribble Drive Offense, Tab Baldwin actually ran the DDO in around 50percent of their possessions in 2015, taking advantage of a prime Jason Castro and modern stretch dribbling big in Andray Blatche. However, he also played this in tandem with his swing offense as well so that there is variety in our offense and that we are more unpredictable. He also ran very good zone offense and we were a team that you cannot play a zone against. We played the percentages well and this is even with a ball dominant Andray Blatche

As you also guys have observed, it is a stark contrast against Tim Cone's Gilas now who seldom sets opportunities for threes, this current iteration of Gilas is now playing like a team from the 2000's-early 2010's.

I completely agree with you on the need to modernize our ways (and trust math damn it). Yeng expressed it though, to develop with the times, we need to enact changes to the whole system. Coaches, rules/officiating, grassroots, pro league, etc.

Cone is an example of why we need to get new/develop existing coaches. Cone's expertise and much of his success is because of the triangle offense, so of course that is the system he will use. Although that system is already outdated internationally, it still is effective in the pba because of...rules/officiating and player profile.

Rules/officiating in our ecosystem is favoring too much towards the "will" players instead of the "skill" players. It is an enabler for slower, less skilled and older players. Ping had a great career and is a great guy, but man at 41 and having already retired for a while, they still think he can play in the pba. The crazy thing is, I think he still can. That's either a plus for him or a minus for the league.

And we all have numerous opinions about our grassroots.

Wholistic change.

 

[Kaireem2]

smh so timmy cone is the best coach ever in the pba .... yet when he took over the alaska team in 1989 he had zero coaching experience and yet somehow ended up being the most successful pba coach ever

while that is a testament to timmy cone's greatness it is at the same time an indictment of how rubbish philippine pro ball is

 

[System2]

I really wondered why we never laud Dondon Hontiveros in the same level as we had with RDO, Alapag. Chan and Pingris where he was a fixture of national teams oin 3 era's Jong era, CHot Team Pilipinas era and the Gilas era and he epitome what a Filipino shooter was in this game..

Agreed. He really was one of our topnotch swingmen during his good playing years. He was a two-way player with enough size for the international game, he was a capable shooter who plays really good on-ball and off-ball defense (which is a rarity for Philippine ballers).

I think why he was not lauded that much is because during his prime playing years from 2008 -2014, he was not part of the national team due to various political reasons. Toroman tried to acquire him for Smart Gilas when they were adding pros, had a few games here and then, but was no longer allowed to play to Gilas when he was transferred back to San Miguel.

When he joined Gilas again in 2015 when he was already with Alaska (who was a supporter for the national team at that time, lending Thoss, Abueva and Dondon), even in his already advanced age at the time, he still was an asset for the team, and Tab knew this, placing him at the starting 5.

 

[System2]

smh so timmy cone is the best coach ever in the pba .... yet when he took over the alaska team in 1989 he had zero coaching experience and yet somehow ended up being the most successful pba coach ever

while that is a testament to timmy cone's greatness it is at the same time an indictment of how rubbish philippine pro ball is

Agree, this does not really speak well with how we develop both players and coaches alike. We really need to change our ways and start from the grassroots.

 

[reamily2]

smh so timmy cone is the best coach ever in the pba .... yet when he took over the alaska team in 1989 he had zero coaching experience and yet somehow ended up being the most successful pba coach ever

while that is a testament to timmy cone's greatness it is at the same time an indictment of how rubbish philippine pro ball is

Tom Hovasse the best Japanese coach ever was a homegrown also, he has the same carrer track as Norman Black..

 

[System2]

I completely agree with you on the need to modernize our ways (and trust math damn it). Yeng expressed it though, to develop with the times, we need to enact changes to the whole system. Coaches, rules/officiating, grassroots, pro league, etc.

Cone is an example of why we need to get new/develop existing coaches. Cone's expertise and much of his success is because of the triangle offense, so of course that is the system he will use. Although that system is already outdated internationally, it still is effective in the pba because of...rules/officiating and player profile.

Rules/officiating in our ecosystem is favoring too much towards the "will" players instead of the "skill" players. It is an enabler for slower, less skilled and older players. Ping had a great career and is a great guy, but man at 41 and having already retired for a while, they still think he can play in the pba. The crazy thing is, I think he still can. That's either a plus for him or a minus for the league.

And we all have numerous opinions about our grassroots.

Wholistic change.

You make a very good point in the mindset of the Filipino ecosystem. We can see the typical pinoy casual baller in the streets and barangay games condemning the taller players of their team for standing outside the three points and not just parking inside the paint for rebounds. Older casual players are actually proud of their "gulang" moves which they utilize when they can no longer keep up with the younger, more agile players. And we have the extremes like the Mindanao "no blood, no foul" basketball that is more wrestling than an actual game of ball.

We overglorify fancy dribbling as can be seen in the fame of players such as Terrence and Kyt Jimenez or "the Professor", while neglecting the basics such as proper shooting, fundamentals and passing. And can we fully blame them? This is what is fed to them as the NBA and in a lesser extent, the PBA is what is popular and these are what they are consuming.

Our very own previous national team coach Chot had this "outwill others" mindset. He had this "puso" mantra that really is more about outwilling opponents, instead of playing smarter which we really have to focus on due to our inferior athletic abilities.

The silver lining is that it seems that the Filipino baller is getting smarter, we can now see the typical commenter in socmed frowning upon iso-ball and preferring teamball. This will really be a process, and the team that carries our colors should really set an example.

 

[Kaireem2]

damn even basketball discussions are now being invaded by millenials and gen zs smh

 

[reamily2]

damn even basketball discussions are now being invaded by millenials and gen zs smh

theres match na in basketball...hahah.. you take 3's chances that you win if it goes in if its off you lose..never considered the owork done to get this good three point looks

 

[Metta2]

Millenials started getting born in 1981, that's 42 years old today. Charles Tiu born right in the middle of that generation.

They should be an important driving force when it comes to basketball ideas and innovation.

 

[reamily2]

Millenials started getting born in 1981, that's 42 years old today. Charles Tiu born right in the middle of that generation.

They should be an important driving force when it comes to basketball ideas and innovation.

wait 40 is old enough to be decision makers and people in ibn is criticizing 26 year olders tagging them as young while millennials wanting to brand themselves as young and not old.. san lukugar haha..

 

[ja.he2]

Millenials started getting born in 1981, that's 42 years old today. Charles Tiu born right in the middle of that generation.

They should be an important driving force when it comes to basketball ideas and innovation.

current PBA coaches:

- Tim Cone (65)
- Jeffrey Cariaso (51)
- Aldin Ayo (45)
- Chito Victolero (47)
- Luigi Trillo (48)
- Frankie Lim (63)
- Bonnie Tan (51)
- Jamike Jarin (53)
- Yeng Guiao (64)
- Jorge Gallent (65)
- Johndel Cardel (53)
- Chot Reyes (60)

 

[JAMSKIE2]

I really wondered why we never laud Dondon Hontiveros in the same level as we had with RDO, Alapag. Chan and Pingris where he was a fixture of national teams oin 3 era's Jong era, CHot Team Pilipinas era and the Gilas era and he epitome what a Filipino shooter was in this game..

Probably becoz the iterations of the National team that Hontiveros has played weren't that successful, except the silver medalist Gilas team in the 2015 FIBA Asia Championship. Dondon Hontiveros was already at the twilight of his career at that time.

 

[System2]

One can be 50 or 20, it does not really matter as long as he/she discusses sensibly. I think gatekeeping and prioritizing seniority is just one of ills of Philippine society. There is usually a seniority rule in Philippine basketball, where the rookies and newcomers are in the end of the pecking order of a rotation. Even our very own current national team is guilty of this. For example, why is the very capable Ange Koaume in the tailend of the bigman rotation. (Japeth even plays ahead of him)