[1/8 finals - Day 1] Latvia - Slovenia

[Hepcat2]

Lithuani.... are the Rubens Barrichelo of basketball, always a nice compliment to somebody's Schumacher.

Tournament's barely begun. It's too early to extrapolate. Things can change when the playoffs begin. Ask Canada and Mexico over in the Americas tournament.

 

[Hepcat2]

I know man, sorry, I was sober, however you can imagine that wasn't exactly the calmest hour for me today.

If I wasn't so pissed off about yesterday's Canada-Venezuela game, I wouldn't be going through this thread so diligently myself.

 

[Hepcat2]

The 92' game with Russia was for me a curse for Lithuanian basketball, because at that time basketball became a pillar of Lithuanian extreme patriotism.

I'd say that enduring 47 years of brutal Soviet Communist occupation somewhat coloured the perceptions of the average Lithuanian.

 

[Joško Poljak Fan2]

If I wasn't so pissed off about yesterday's Canada-Venezuela game, I wouldn't be going through this thread so diligently myself.

Ouch, lacked time for the tournament of the americas, I'll post there.

As far as Ice Hockey, it's basicaly all about Kopitar. I don't think going anywhere above the result from Sochi is expected within the next years

 

[Big Lebowski2]

After reading the thread I was a bit confused, like today's game had been Slovenia-Lithuania and not Slovenia-Latvia.

 

[Modis2]

After reading the thread I was a bit confused, like today's game had been Slovenia-Lithuania and not Slovenia-Latvia.

Latvians are our brothers . All three Baltic nations respect each other..And anyways there is not many Latvians on Interbasket to come and comment.

 

[Hepcat2]

As far as Ice Hockey, it's basicaly all about Kopitar. I don't think going anywhere above the result from Sochi is expected within the next years

Still a lot better than Lithuania. While our Latvian brothers have generally been among the top ten teams in the world, Lithuania can't even get up to Group B. And there's no shortage of snow and ice in Lithuania in the winter.

 

[Hepcat2]

You are wrong on few things here, patriotism didn't start since 1992, Zalgiris-CSKA battles in 80s was the peak of it, it was when Zalgiris was like NT, basketball was our identity and only way to kick soviets ass.

Basketball and patriotism was there way before 92'. In a context of basketball check out Žalgiris vs. CSKA games.

Yes. It was part and parcel of the passive resistance practiced by the people of the Baltic states. In Latvia the great Riga Dynamo hockey team played a similar role in its battles against the Central Red Army team in the seventies and eighties.

 

[Terrorizer2]

This happens literally everytime when Lithuanians are involved in a debate about achievements. It always becomes a measurement of strength and neediness to confirm they are indeed a great nation. During my 3-week visit to Lithuania @EB2011 it was almost impossible to have a debate where someone wouldn't literally boast about Lithuanian basketball, food, landmarks and so on. Their love for basketball is much less love for the sport, than pathologic patriotism that shows the fears of being a small nation. Basketball is their way of positioning themselves on the world map which sucks a lot, since sport always suffers and it becomes a subject of political debate, national pride and so on. It is very similar in Slovenia, it's just the people react a bit differently. Slovenian mentality is introverted and always results in criticising yourself for not being able to reach the very top, being the best of the best, while Lithuania is very boastful and in your face about their achievements, even if they are more than 20 years old. The 92' game with Russia was for me a curse for Lithuanian basketball, because at that time basketball became a pillar of Lithuanian extreme patriotism. It is nearly impossible for someone from outside to truly be sympathetic with their sport if you know how an average fan perceives basketball.

Maybe we lost some matches precisely because of this introverted mentality (which is answer to Shawshanks question), but i prefer to have it this way, than the opposite, being a douchebag and try to show how superior my nation is to literally every foreigner.

Totally agree. And it's much better to have 'typical Slovenian' attitude than a typical 'Baltic/Lithuanian one', I guess. When there is a lot of braggadocio about how some given country is superior to most of the others in just about anything, it looks like that in fact there aren't too many rational reasons for this overinflated national pride, for this very pathologic sort of patriotism. When you have some thing in which your country really excels (or excelled), you perceive this as a natural thing and you don't have to go on bragging about it on any possible opportunity. For example, Frenchmen don't have to prove anyone that they had splendid Gothique ecclesiastical architectural tradition just because they are perfectly sure that it's not a subject for debate since it would be foolish to state otherwise. Chinese don't have to convince someone that they are a leading force in some table tennis just because everyone who knows at least one iota about ping-pong knows that they really are. So when I see someone trying to prove that his country in fact is superior in some aspect (sportive or otherwise), then I got a feeling that he's not really sure about it and he tries to convince himself that this presumed superiority is non-fictitious by repeating some 'patriotic' mantras ad nauseam.

Many say that this sense of inflated and hostile 'faux patriotism' comes from the feeling of being endangered as these small ethnoses feared too much for their very existence since in most cases they haven't their own continuous tradition of statehood and were surrounded (and influenced) by much bigger and stronger neighbours. But still it's not the case with many of those small countries and small ethnoses. Slovenia is not a big country either and it also was a part of different big empires during recent centuries but nevertheless you rarely got this sort of overblown quasi-patriotism from Slovenian posters here. And I've never seen them bitching about Communist Yugoslavian/Habsburgian/little green Martian people 'brutal occupation' and how they considered basketball as the only way to beat some other nation's ass and, hence, as the only real source of their national pride. This difference is really indicative.

it's a pity we lost today, but it was kind of expected for this team. Their major downfall was the inability to adapt to new conditions. Today, we saw a lot of those. Traveling to another country and early hour of match were decisive for the level of energy with which we started the game. Latvian tall players, who are physically much better than our very old and tired talls, were of course able to adapt much quicker to new conditions and that was decisive. It broke our tactical plan and made us play in Latvian rhythm. Also, the guys didn't get the fanatical support they were getting in Zagreb. Most importantly, Latvians were prepared for this match, as they would have been studying us for one month. They knew the tendencies of every our player. It was a very, very good preparation from the Latvian assistant coaches and they deserve to be in quarters.

I haven't watched this game but, as I can guess, surprisingly bad coaching from Zdovc was a reason for this abysmal result. Yes, Latvian bigs are mobile but being unable to use effectively such great slashers like Z. Dragic and Blazic against subpar backcourt defense is really a strange thing. Latvian roster is really thin and I thought that a better rotation could help to tire Latvian leaders down in the second half but instead Latvians made a knockouting punch in last five minutes of the game. I haven't watched the game itself but to nail just 16 out of 41 two-point attempts in a game against Latvia is argumentative of the major disarray in offensive organization.

Many don't know that Zoran Dragić and Zdovc had a small fight after the Netherlands game and it changed team chemistry a lot. This team was the best when Zdovc was pushing them to the limit throughout the match by yelling at them. He stopped doing that after that fight. Zoran got his leadership role that he wanted and this might have influenced our today's inability to rise the level of energy during the match.

That's a revealing detail. But if Zdovc can't control not only Goran's but Zoran's ego too, it's a bad coaching also. Once again, I haven't watched the game itself but I guess it was the type of an upset than a team more ready to fight and more hungry for the win prevails against nominally stronger but much more weak-willed opponent. Well, team chemistry and fighting spirit is absolutely a neccessity in order to be successful in tournaments like EuroBasket. We have a brightest example even in this very competition. After all, even with all the absences Russian team had roster clearly superior to anyone aside from France in our group. Yet it had zero team chemistry, awful coaching and was completely unwilling to fight - hence, it got what it deserved, i.e. 1W - 4L finish wih a total point difference of +5 losing every tense ending it experiences. And not only to France but to Israel, Poland and Finland also.

 

[Ashtrusis_dantis2]

When there is a lot of braggadocio about how some given country is superior to most of the others in just about anything, it looks like that in fact there aren't too many rational reasons for this overinflated national pride, for this very pathologic sort of patriotism.

Mister Terrorizer, I would be silent about pathalogical patriotism if I would be you. Better look at the mirror and around you, such level of "kvasnyj patriotizm" like in your country is almost impossible to reach.

 

[Terrorizer2]

Mister Terrorizer, I would be silent about pathalogical patriotism if I would be you. Better look at the mirror and around you, such level of "kvasnyj patriotizm" like in your country is almost impossible to reach.

Luckily, you're not me and I'm not you By the way, "квасной" and not "квасный". It's nothing wrong to be patriotic, in fact, it's completely normal to love your country and to be proud of it where there are some sound reasons to do so. But ZizzitSlo wrote about really different thing which is patriotism only by its name. It's a 'faux patriotism' which always needs some enemy in order to feel 'national pride', which always underlines one nation's superiority to some (in some clinical cases - all) others and, hence, it only spreads hostility and enmity, it's mostly negative about presumed enemies instead of being positive about yourself.

Example of good patriotism - 'my country have/had great tradition in something and I'm really happy about it', example of bad patriotism - 'my country have/had the greatest possible tradition in something and all the others (or most of the others) suck hard being compared to us'. Many Lithuanians sadly still indulge in sweet memories how some win of Zalgiris over CSKA was 'the only way to beat Russians/Soviets ass' but for Russians it was just an exciting duel without their national pride being heavily dependent on that duel's outcome. Maybe, it was such just because there were tons of other, much more substantial than some sportive event's result, reasons to feel national pride without humiliating and confronting someone. Hell, I'll never get that but even nowadays many basketball fans from Russia feel sympathetic towards Lithuanian basketball and mostly root for their national team when it doesn't play Russia. Dunno why, maybe, it is due some sense of shared basketball history as some Sabonis is perceived as much less foreigner than some San Epi, heh, I don't even think that Sabonis is perceived like a 'real foreigner' here. I find this rooting for Team Lietuva among Russian bb fans really weird and I never was guilty of that myself but nevertheless it still is the case here. It is interesting how many Lithuanians root for Russian basketball teams, NT included

In fact, I think that Russian populace is not patriotic enough in many aspects Their patriotism is often too superficial and shallow. Just like Lithuanian one - you know, all those Lithuanian 'patriots' who prefer to stay out of their home country on some British Isles and love Lithuania 'from the outside' Not for nothing a process of steady population growth under 'brutal occupation' gave place to rapid depopulation of Lithuania once so-called 'independence' was achieved.

P.S. I'm often really critical about current state of affairs in Russian basketball and about many specific teams in particular. I would be the first to admit that in general Russians are big time chokers in basketball and most of the time we can't manage the talents we have in a proper way. But talents we do have in spades, most of them sadly get buried too early since big money in a poorly managed league can be also a curse for the development of local players. This is exactly the case with Russian club basketball.

 

[Hepcat2]

Also, the guys didn't get the fanatical support they were getting in Zagreb.

That's what many observers said about the Latvian team as well, i.e. that the team over achieved because of the enthusiastic fan support in Riga and would not be able to repeat this success playing in a neutral venue without this fan support.



As a general rule though, I'm guessing that Slovenians and Croatians typically cheer for each other's teams if their own isn't involved. Am I correct?

 

[miloje2]

That's what many observers said about the Latvian team as well, i.e. that the team over achieved because of the enthusiastic fan support in Riga and would not be able to repeat this success playing in a neutral venue without this fan support.



As a general rule though, I'm guessing that Slovenians and Croatians typically cheer for each other's teams if their own isn't involved. Am I correct?

most normal people do. however football fans or similar retards, no way

 

[Joško Poljak Fan2]

That's what many observers said about the Latvian team as well, i.e. that the team over achieved because of the enthusiastic fan support in Riga and would not be able to repeat this success playing in a neutral venue without this fan support.



As a general rule though, I'm guessing that Slovenians and Croatians typically cheer for each other's teams if their own isn't involved. Am I correct?

That's generaly as Miloje said, a matter of common sense, I personaly support Croats as I've spent some time there, however it's not something casual. There are a lot of artificial tensions created between the countries, whenever some politician screws something over here he prays that Croats would do anything to unite let's call them "naives" from whole political spectrum in their enragement, so whatever he screwed up would go unnoticed due to it. Hepcat, balkan politics... nuff said.
I don't think Croats would get some loud support from Slovenians and vice versa due to it. We both have our own versions of the South Park's "blame Canada"

 

[Modis2]

That's generaly as Miloje said, a matter of common sense, I personaly support Croats as I've spent some time there, however it's not something casual. There are a lot of artificial tensions created between the countries, whenever some politician screws something over here he prays that Croats would do anything to unite let's call them "naives" from whole political spectrum in their enragement, so whatever he screwed up would go unnoticed due to it. Hepcat, balkan politics... nuff said.
I don't think Croats would get some loud support from Slovenians and vice versa due to it. We both have our own versions of the South Park's "blame Canada"

I generally feel like some Balkan fans support each other like crazy. When Lithuania lost the U16 Final. Montenegro players was cheering with Bosnians like they are one country or something. As far as I know Balkan region is still pretty divided over who likes who. But some countries have so much support for each other there.

 

[CoachZ2]

I generally feel like some Balkan fans support each other like crazy. When Lithuania lost the U16 Final. Montenegro players was cheering with Bosnians like they are one country or something. As far as I know Balkan region is still pretty divided over who likes who. But some countries have so much support for each other there.

Serbian players as well. I love that. The kids should forget the shitty things from the past and go for an be friends. They basically all speak the same language, share similar traditions, customs, mentality etc. It would only make sense that they do. When they play each other they can go at it. Otherwise, no need.

 

[Alyosha122]

I was very disappointed by the result of this game, however i cant say i am surprised. It is kind of no surprise that the worst Slo team talent vise also has the worst result. However we as fans always expect everything and more from the guy. That is not to say, we wouldnt beat Latvia 6 times out of 10.