Does Prokom deserve to get A License?

[elaj]

It's simple. They deserve it because they are the most organized Polish basketball club in last decade. Poland is a huge market in Europe, and basketball it's all about business. It would be shocking if huge country like Poland, where basketball is relativly popular, and they are clearly able to support a high budget club, and bring fans to arena, not to have a club or A licence in Euroleague. Don't get me wrong, I'm against any kind of lincences, but if they have to be, Poland - Prokom definitely deserves it due to basketball, marketing, purly financial reasons...

 

[InstitutionFan]

i know i am late, but i must say something about this.
this i s scandal.
is prokom giant of europian basketball?
is prokom from country that has basketball tradition?
has prokom some results last years?
one top 16 which thay made with 2 wins in 16 games and one qf.
gimme a break.
it's all about money.
Thay absolutly dodn't deserve that, but mone, money, money...
ULEB is mafia.
Why didnt thay punished Batist for what he did to ozbolt?
it's mafia who protects reach clubs.
if they have basketball at the first place, a licences would have partizan, cibona... not Fenerbahce, Roma, Prokom...

 

[Levenspiel]

in addition to that previous Top16, Prokom also made it to top8 last year, beating even the mighty CSKA in 2nd stage groups. If there are gonna be licenses, Prokom absolutely deserves it with their constant dedication over the years.

 

[NidzaPBC]

Its all about money not results, get over it...

 

[KimiPFC]

i know i am late, but i must say something about this.
this i s scandal.
is prokom giant of europian basketball?
is prokom from country that has basketball tradition?
has prokom some results last years?
one top 16 which thay made with 2 wins in 16 games and one qf.
gimme a break.
it's all about money.
Thay absolutly dodn't deserve that, but mone, money, money...
ULEB is mafia.
Why didnt thay punished Batist for what he did to ozbolt?
it's mafia who protects reach clubs.
if they have basketball at the first place, a licences would have partizan, cibona... not Fenerbahce, Roma, Prokom...

absolutly agree whit you. everthing is FACT, its really sad that money play a major role even in sport

 

[janos]

if they have basketball at the first place, a licences would have partizan, cibona... not Fenerbahce, Roma, Prokom...

You should check what Virtus Roma,actually means for European bball before posting ignorant things.
As for the question at hand.
I agree that since the ridiculous and harming for domestic leagues, licenses system exists,Prokom is entitled one for what they have brought to EL these last years.
Partizan too.

 

[InstitutionFan]

in addition to that previous Top16, Prokom also made it to top8 last year, beating even the mighty CSKA in 2nd stage groups. If there are gonna be licenses, Prokom absolutely deserves it with their constant dedication over the years.

What are you talking about?
I said: one top 16 and one qf.
That;s all they did.

Why didn't Partizan get A licence?
Bigger club, bigger successec last year, from country with big tradition...

KK Partizan:17 National championships, 11 National cups, 4 Adriatic leagues, 3 Korac cups, 1 Euroleague.
Legends:Kicanovic, Dalipagic, Obradovic, Grbovic, Divac, Dordjevic, Paspalj, Danilovic, Rebraca...
Couches:Nikolic, Zeravica, Ivkovic, Obradovic, Vujosevic.
Institution.
@janos


When did Roma win last trophey?

 

[Joško Poljak Fan]

-first of all... A licence is a stupidity no.1
-second of all... getting A licence due to one single relatively succesfull EL season, while being only 4 wins better than "one of the legendary succeses from that period", "infamous powerhouse Olimpija" (27 wins - 49 losses for Prokom in regular seasons) through 04'-10' euroleague... is a stupidity no.2
-third of all... after not exceeding in results point of view... did Prokom exceed with attendance? They didn't. And still not moved to 11.000 seated facility.
-4th... did Prokom raise any significant home player that would help generat interest in euroleague/basketball through Poland? Dylewicz? someone else? does Dylewicz even belong to that group? Anybody new slowely coming there?
-5th... did Prokom raise any significant TV revenue? That might've change in the last 2 seasons (do enlighten me about the current situation; I honestly do not know), but further back Polish TV stations were about as interested in euroleague as French ones... meaning 0 € income from that part.

finally 6th... and most important...
What exactly does than, from euroleague point of view, Prokom bring to the table (deserving a licence accordingly) that any other Polish team that would invest 5 mil € in basketball wouldn't?


supposedly that's what licences are all about? Protecting EL's investment!? (I don't expect an answer as I doubt there are any...)

 

[InstitutionFan]

yes, i forgot, they even don't have attendance.
What are we talikng about, they brought something to Euroleague..
domestic players, greate fans...
they brought nothing, but ofcourse, it's easy for reach clubs fans to talk about this sheat.

 

[Levenspiel]

It's not Partizan vs Prokom. If your real intention behind this topic is to advocate a licence for Partizan, then say so. Very few would object.

Prokom is consistently investing for many years now and slowly they are getting the results. I don't know about the attendance, but I witnessed during EC2009 that Polish people were much more interested in basketball than Turkish, for example, with 2 A-licence clubs.

The history of clubs are important, but they are irrelevant for this discussion imo. We would be giving A-licences to Riga, Split, Varese, Cantu etc by that logic.

I don't like this condescending attitude from people of established bball countries' towards developing bball nations. Prokom is just fine, not a F4 candidate yet, but always there. Both EL and Poland benefits from this.

 

[pohani komarac]

It's not Partizan vs Prokom. If your real intention behind this topic is to advocate a licence for Partizan, then say so. Very few would object.

Prokom is consistently investing for many years now and slowly they are getting the results. I don't know about the attendance, but I witnessed during EC2009 that Polish people were much more interested in basketball than Turkish, for example, with 2 A-licence clubs.

The history of clubs are important, but they are irrelevant for this discussion imo. We would be giving A-licences to Riga, Split, Varese, Cantu etc by that logic.

I don't like this condescending attitude from people of established bball countries' towards developing bball nations. Prokom is just fine, not a F4 candidate yet, but always there. Both EL and Poland benefits from this.

i don't like when somebody is fucked even he deserves prize more just because he can't bring money. like somebody who can and that those have "wind in back" (serbians knows where did i picked up "wind inback" ) to step infront of somebody who is good, but don't bring gold with him

sure, history is not that important, but if prokom deserves A licence partizan deserves it more. pure fact...let's not go in old history...by sport results last season, and last few, partizan did better...by loaded arenas...partizan did much better...so we end in potetial big market, and team from big market is geting "wind in back"....and don't give stuff they wannt to push basketball in nonestablished bb countries...basketball isn't established in iceland or hungary to, but i don't see bartomeu pushing them like he does with teams from germany, poland, england, turkey or france (don't get me wrong, nothing personal against them, just saying the truth)

anway a, b, c, d and znj license are nonsense anway (we had it and it gave us only bertomeuo crap anway), i don't wannt them for barcelona, cibona, partizan or prokom. evrything shoud be by fair sport results where evryone gets fair equal thretment....ufortunally it's not posible, it's 2010 and humans are dead donkeys and worse

 

[InstitutionFan]

It's not Partizan vs Prokom. If your real intention behind this topic is to advocate a licence for Partizan, then say so. Very few would object.

Prokom is consistently investing for many years now and slowly they are getting the results. I don't know about the attendance, but I witnessed during EC2009 that Polish people were much more interested in basketball than Turkish, for example, with 2 A-licence clubs.

The history of clubs are important, but they are irrelevant for this discussion imo. We would be giving A-licences to Riga, Split, Varese, Cantu etc by that logic.

I don't like this condescending attitude from people of established bball countries' towards developing bball nations. Prokom is just fine, not a F4 candidate yet, but always there. Both EL and Poland benefits from this.

wow, impressive.
what would you say for Partizan than...
And, ofcourse, it's not all about tradition, but if sport motiv is in first place, you are always going to give that sheat to Partizan, not to Prokom.
and everybody who is talking about prokom's licence like gift for great results knows he isn't right.
it's all about money.

 

[Billy Bounce]

The way Prokom is given this A-license is not only corrupt , it also counter productive to the EL aim itself.

If A-license granting mechanism was transparent, Prokom owners themselves could benefit by planing their investments ahead, knowing the results they have to achieve etc'

But now, Prokom investments seems down: with players like Woods & Logan out without equivalent replacement . Prokom is 0-3 in very difficult group and a breath away from elimination before Top-16.

Giving A-license for 2011-2012 for a team eliminated during regular season seems a way ridiculous.

I'd say EL is too late with A-license , they should give it before Prokom started to rebuild itself this summer.

BTW, as ArnoldPettybone pointed out in parallel thread : Jordi , it seems aims to take on 11k Hala Gdansk - with A-license Prokom will be forced to play there instead of the current 5k Gdynia arena. The problem is that after a bad season people won't fill 11k.

 

[Joško Poljak Fan]

I don't like this condescending attitude from people of established bball countries' towards developing bball nations. Prokom is just fine, not a F4 candidate yet, but always there. Both EL and Poland benefits from this.

Do not get me wrong. I am all for developing the sports. I was one of the loudest people here when it came to EL qualifications, 32 team EL or Fiba EC expansion in the past... I just don't like the methods Jordi is using.
I believe we are on the same page after what happened to Turkish basketball with Ulker and Efes getting licences at the begining of EL.

That's why I've wrote down what Prokom brings to the table another Polish club with 5 millions wouldn't, to deserve a licence. I can't see one standing out aspect from Prokom to be honest and they are not always there, apart from the last season they were noticably below the average.


It's easy for Jordi to give away what's not his in the first place.
He is having tendencies of giving away gifts on behalf of euroleague, with a reasoning noone but himself really understands. He has already done some noticably big harm to some countries basketball with such licence experiments, it's not that people through europe didn't realise that by now?

Euroleague is what it is because of Tau, Žalgiris, Rytas, Pao, Maccabi, Partizan, Virtus with some 10 other clubs that contibute to it, some less, some more... without those clubs and it's fans, european club basketball could as well be on the level of handball, vaterpolo or rugby.
From time to time some club stands out and contribute at least a part of that "devotion" to the whole thing, either by offering memorably intense games, sell out crowd, put's some youngsters on the surface... I just can't see what Prokom has done there to be awarded that's all, not to mention I oppose 80% of these licences as they are harmfull or needless; including with a licence for Partizan.



European basketball is run by people from basketball incognita countries... and Jordi Fiba does enough little work not to screw up (could be deliberately) and Jordi will try to correct the effects of his previous actions untill eternety. People should get pissed at such incompetence.

BTW, as ArnoldPettybone pointed out in parallel thread : Jordi , it seems aims to take on 11k Hala Gdansk - with A-license Prokom will be forced to play there instead of the current 5k Gdynia arena. The problem is that after a bad season people won't fill 11k.

Interesting pont of view... but once again, the method imho isn't worth the costs.

 

[switek00]

I am Polish. It is good if EL support and ensure people who want to invest in basketball, who want to make this sport more popular, who fight to for highest level of basket in our country. I wish the licence A as for Partizan. Dont be jealous guys.

 

[AirBall]

Dont be jealous guys.

I didnt want to write the post about Prokom's A licence, but I cant ignore this message you are sending now.

Tell me just one succesful polish player which has made his cariere in Poland?

How many Polish players were leaders in Prokom last 10 years?

We have a situation where teams like Partizan and Cibona, which have European titles, have to fight every year in domestic league and if they fail they won't play in EL next season.

These teams were European champions and produced some of best European players in history.

Just remember names like Jan Vesely, Bojan Bogdanovic or Leon Radosevic. In few years they will be the best European players and who will know in 5 years for Mike Wilks or Filip Videnov? Are they treasure of European basketball? Do we need 5 NBA players in each team? Is that future of European basketball?

When Partizan plays important matches people are not sleeping at all, because they wait to buy the ticketts the whole night. We played in last 3 years 2 times in 1/4 final of EL and once in semi final. Our national team is 2nd in Europe while we are 4th in the World.

All in all its not matter of jealousy... Its a matter of clear mind...

Should we play basketball at all if everything must go harder way?

 

[InstitutionFan]

I am Polish. It is good if EL support and ensure people who want to invest in basketball, who want to make this sport more popular, who fight to for highest level of basket in our country. I wish the licence A as for Partizan. Dont be jealous guys.

If Euroleague wants to support somebody who invest in basketball, they would give a licence to partizan, giant of european basketball, club that has f4 from last season, 2 qf-es before that, many domestic players that gave a lot to european basketball, who is from country with greate tradition...

But, it's mafia with other motives...

 

[switek00]

I didnt said that I dont want license A for Partizan. They definately deserve it.

I know that Prokom didnt promote any succesfull Polish players but maybe it is going to change. Maybe Prokoms foregin players will be sample for young Polish supporters and they will be training harder or even start training cause they want to be new David Logan. We are happy that we have team in best competition in Europe and maybe it will have good infuences in long run for Poland. Even now it is woking cause Polish players, if even they cant play in EL, they are able to training with quality EL Prokom players. For other Polish team it has good infuences as well cause they can compete on highest level against Prokom.

Anyway I will be standing behind Prokom

 

[pohani komarac]

I didnt want to write the post about Prokom's A licence, but I cant ignore this message you are sending now.

Tell me just one succesful polish player which has made his cariere in Poland?

How many Polish players were leaders in Prokom last 10 years?

We have a situation where teams like Partizan and Cibona, which have European titles, have to fight every year in domestic league and if they fail they won't play in EL next season.These teams were European champions and produced some of best European players in history.Just remember names like Jan Vesely, Bojan Bogdanovic or Leon Radosevic. In few years they will be the best European players and who will know in 5 years for Mike Wilks or Filip Videnov? Are they treasure of European basketball? Do we need 5 NBA players in each team? Is that future of European basketball?

When Partizan plays important matches people are not sleeping at all, because they wait to buy the ticketts the whole night. We played in last 3 years 2 times in 1/4 final of EL and once in semi final. Our national team is 2nd in Europe while we are 4th in the World.

All in all its not matter of jealousy... Its a matter of clear mind...

Should we play basketball at all if everything must go harder way?

better that way...if zadar, split, zagreb, zvezda, or hemofarm finish infront of partizan and cibona than they deserve to play in euroleague...i'm cibona fan, but i feal bad for zadar and split when uleb and A licence took their chance to play in euroleague even they deserved by sport result...maybe today institution like split wouldn't be in such a terible situation

and same should be in spain, croatia, serbia or poland...i just pray baartomeuo will realise that to one day

 

[Levenspiel]

I think we discuss a few separate things at the same time.

Is the license-system good? - I agree with many of you, overall it's not.
Does Partizan deserve a A-license? I believe yes.

But the question is "does Prokom deserve a licence?" If you say "no", because the license system is corrupted, then you should criticize PAO's, Barca's licenses as well. The whole system, not only Prokom's, as it not their fault that this system is implemented.

Does anybody know the exact criteria for A-license? I assumed it was related to the market size (big plus for Prokom), dedication (another plus), consistent investment (plus), attendance (not terrible), the results (the weakest point, but they are improving over the years).