Eurobasket 2025 - General Discussion
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fasoulaki
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We can agree that we agree!
Ridirkulous
Active member
Interesting debate about a case which has already been proved to be a non-case by the people directly involved.
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Straight forward
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I read one interview with one of our older coaches S. Sakalauskas.
He said once Germany was learning from traditional powerhouses as Serbia, Lithuania, Spain, France, now such BB schools even like Lithuania could learn few things from Germany. First, they adapted more PRO attitude towards youth BB. They established more well paid children coaches. They also awarded coaches for well developed young players, meaning the results of the process were recognized and paid off. ATM, in Lithuania we have a bit of a problem with too low salaries of lower tier coaches who work with kids. Coaches section is really important. I do tend to believe that huge talents as say G. Dragic, Rubio and such they will slip to the top either way, but some Maodo Lo would be probably meh if he never developed that particular skillset, if his coaches never pushed him to play more open BB.
Recently LTU has been experimenting with more ISO orientated youth systems, they didn't allow to use screens (under 14 I think) and such things. Jakucionis was among those who played like that. Recently our new federation banned this idea and the screens are there again. I think we don't need screens early on, we push too many limits on players too early, let them ball, let them polish their skill and love for the game, let them play and imitate best NBA players. Lithuanians are very disciplined and won't have any issues to adapt to system. Besides, BB going towards less and less system. Germany's BB became even more simple, just huge paces and less staggers. The same Turkey looks good with it when they have dominant creators as Sengun.
Serbia suddenly looked vulnerable when there's no enough of ISO presence. Watching from LTU perspective, one Jokubaitis alone managed to establish very competitive NT of very limited roster, just because he had that ability to create at the high level. I think current coaches should be mentors that not suppress players individual growth and would lubricate the transition to the PROs paying a huge emphasis on mentality and ISO abilities. I don't even think our old school coach Kurtinaitis is doing anything wrong, he allowed all the freedom to Jokubaitis and he carried NT to another level in terms of ISO creation compared to our recent time.
Those NTs who will have superior ISO creation and huge bench depth will dominate and has been doing that for a while. 2022 Spain and to certain extent 2025 Turkey are exceptions (both teams were pretty thin). Let's face it, Turkey is on the podium because France and Serbia didn't bring their A teams. Even Germany was there with their -A team and they won it. But also Turkey showed that one dominant creator as Sengun can entirely change the face of your franchise (but Turkey will need depth to ever again win medal, IMO).
The times of Serbian BB, slow pace, a lot of set offense and pesky defence is surely over. Don't think it's coming back. You have to have very dynamic offensive players with creative flair and deep bench to step on the podium. Serbia looked rather toothless without Bigi, their most dynamic and truly dominant guard.
And still, this combination of few uber talented perimeter stars and huge EL/NBA quality bench is very rare. ATM, only France, Serbia, Germany can unleash it in Europe. Later I think Spain and Lithuania will have capabilities to provide something like that. Maybe Turkey. But that's, IMO, all. It's really tough task.
ve.lt
PS: The important part of growing German BB is that no club can play in Budesliga without having U18 and U16 teams system. They should give something for players development, for the country. I think this was a game changer. That's big countries advantages though. LTU is too small that our smaller clubs could go after this, but still many teams have their youth section as Zalgiris, Rytas, Neptunas and so on.
He said once Germany was learning from traditional powerhouses as Serbia, Lithuania, Spain, France, now such BB schools even like Lithuania could learn few things from Germany. First, they adapted more PRO attitude towards youth BB. They established more well paid children coaches. They also awarded coaches for well developed young players, meaning the results of the process were recognized and paid off. ATM, in Lithuania we have a bit of a problem with too low salaries of lower tier coaches who work with kids. Coaches section is really important. I do tend to believe that huge talents as say G. Dragic, Rubio and such they will slip to the top either way, but some Maodo Lo would be probably meh if he never developed that particular skillset, if his coaches never pushed him to play more open BB.
Recently LTU has been experimenting with more ISO orientated youth systems, they didn't allow to use screens (under 14 I think) and such things. Jakucionis was among those who played like that. Recently our new federation banned this idea and the screens are there again. I think we don't need screens early on, we push too many limits on players too early, let them ball, let them polish their skill and love for the game, let them play and imitate best NBA players. Lithuanians are very disciplined and won't have any issues to adapt to system. Besides, BB going towards less and less system. Germany's BB became even more simple, just huge paces and less staggers. The same Turkey looks good with it when they have dominant creators as Sengun.
Serbia suddenly looked vulnerable when there's no enough of ISO presence. Watching from LTU perspective, one Jokubaitis alone managed to establish very competitive NT of very limited roster, just because he had that ability to create at the high level. I think current coaches should be mentors that not suppress players individual growth and would lubricate the transition to the PROs paying a huge emphasis on mentality and ISO abilities. I don't even think our old school coach Kurtinaitis is doing anything wrong, he allowed all the freedom to Jokubaitis and he carried NT to another level in terms of ISO creation compared to our recent time.
Those NTs who will have superior ISO creation and huge bench depth will dominate and has been doing that for a while. 2022 Spain and to certain extent 2025 Turkey are exceptions (both teams were pretty thin). Let's face it, Turkey is on the podium because France and Serbia didn't bring their A teams. Even Germany was there with their -A team and they won it. But also Turkey showed that one dominant creator as Sengun can entirely change the face of your franchise (but Turkey will need depth to ever again win medal, IMO).
The times of Serbian BB, slow pace, a lot of set offense and pesky defence is surely over. Don't think it's coming back. You have to have very dynamic offensive players with creative flair and deep bench to step on the podium. Serbia looked rather toothless without Bigi, their most dynamic and truly dominant guard.
And still, this combination of few uber talented perimeter stars and huge EL/NBA quality bench is very rare. ATM, only France, Serbia, Germany can unleash it in Europe. Later I think Spain and Lithuania will have capabilities to provide something like that. Maybe Turkey. But that's, IMO, all. It's really tough task.
Vokietijos dominavimo priežastis apžvelgęs ekspertas: „Tokia sistema nepalieka silpnų vietų“
Rugsėjo 14-ąją Europos čempione tapusi Vokietijos vyrų krepšinio rinktinė pastaruosius 3 metus maudosi šlovės spinduliuose. Lyg kometa įskriejusi į…
ve.lt
PS: The important part of growing German BB is that no club can play in Budesliga without having U18 and U16 teams system. They should give something for players development, for the country. I think this was a game changer. That's big countries advantages though. LTU is too small that our smaller clubs could go after this, but still many teams have their youth section as Zalgiris, Rytas, Neptunas and so on.
Last edited:
Serbian_Layup
Well-known member
That is called half court offense. The basic principle of basketball offense. There is never going to be time when you don't need half court offense. Same goes for 'pesky' defense. How do you plan to make on ball pressure without pesky defense? Just because Serbia didn't do well in this Eurobasket doesn't mean there is something dramatic going on, like changing trends or anything like that, because just year ago Serbia was an inch away to take down USA dream team, playing basketball on the principles of half court offense and pesky defense. Of course you have to have players for that kind of offense, just like you have to have certain profile of players for different styles of offense.I read one interview with one of our older coaches S. Sakalauskas.
He said once Germany was learning from traditional powerhouses as Serbia, Lithuania, Spain, France, now such BB schools even like Lithuania could learn few things from Germany. First, they adapted more PRO attitude towards youth BB. They established more well paid children coaches. They also awarded coaches for well developed young players, meaning the results of the process were recognized and paid off. ATM, in Lithuania we have a bit of a problem with too low salaries of lower tier coaches who work with kids. Coaches section is really important. I do tend to believe that huge talents as say G. Dragic, Rubio and such they will slip to the top either way, but some Maodo Lo would be probably meh if he never developed that particular skillset, if his coaches never pushed him to play more open BB.
Recently LTU has been experimenting with more ISO orientated youth systems, they didn't allow to use screens (under 14 I think) and such things. Jakucionis was among those who played like that. Recently our new federation banned this idea and the screens are there again. I think we don't need screens early on, we push too many limits on players too early, let them ball, let them polish their skill and love for the game, let them play and imitate best NBA players. Lithuanians are very disciplined and won't have any issues to adapt to system. Besides, BB going towards less and less system. Germany's BB became even more simple, just huge paces and less staggers. The same Turkey looks good with it when they have dominant creators as Sengun.
Serbia suddenly looked vulnerable when there's no enough of ISO presence. Watching from LTU perspective, one Jokubaitis alone managed to establish very competitive NT of very limited roster, just because he had that ability to create at the high level. I think current coaches should be mentors that not suppress players individual growth and would lubricate the transition to the PROs paying a huge emphasis on mentality and ISO abilities. I don't even think our old school coach Kurtinaitis is doing anything wrong, he allowed all the freedom to Jokubaitis and he carried NT to another level in terms of ISO creation compared to our recent time.
Those NTs who will have superior ISO creation and huge bench depth will dominate and has been doing that for a while. 2022 Spain and to certain extent 2025 Turkey are exceptions (both teams were pretty thin). Let's face it, Turkey is on the podium because France and Serbia didn't bring their A teams. Even Germany was there with their -A team and they won it. But also Turkey showed that one dominant creator as Sengun can entirely change the face of your franchise (but Turkey will need depth to ever again win medal, IMO).
The times of Serbian BB, slow pace, a lot of set offense and pesky defence is surely over. Don't think it's coming back. You have to have very dynamic offensive players with creative flair and deep bench to step on the podium. Serbia looked rather toothless without Bigi, their most dynamic and truly dominant guard.
And still, this combination of few uber talented perimeter stars and huge EL/NBA quality bench is very rare. ATM, only France, Serbia, Germany can unleash it in Europe. Later I think Spain and Lithuania will have capabilities to provide something like that. Maybe Turkey. But that's, IMO, all. It's really tough task.
Vokietijos dominavimo priežastis apžvelgęs ekspertas: „Tokia sistema nepalieka silpnų vietų“
Rugsėjo 14-ąją Europos čempione tapusi Vokietijos vyrų krepšinio rinktinė pastaruosius 3 metus maudosi šlovės spinduliuose. Lyg kometa įskriejusi į…
As for youth categories, Germany has been investing a lot in foreign coaches for years, especially those who come from Balkan region to work and teach their kids. Kari Pesic won their first Eurobasket title in 1993. That was smart approach, buy and import the knowledge if you don't have it and learn from it.
Lithuanian youth system is based on discipline and strict systematic approach which doesn't allow too much individual freedom. It's good for many reasons in terms of teaching to play team basketball and taking care of the ball, but also not so good when it comes to transition to senior level because after all you need gifted individuals to win something in basketball.
Serbian youth basketball system is focused on raising individual prowess. We pick and choose few most talented players in each generation and give them freedom to play with the ball. That's way more beneficial when your first goal is developing young players for senior basketball. It's no secret why we have had so many gifted individuals and ISO scorers throughout our history, part of the reason is exactly this approach in youth system.
Straight forward
Well-known member
Good point, but with all fairness Serbia unleashed an amazing intensity in that game against USA. They were shooting the lights out with an amazing pace. Avaramovic was hitting big time, Bogi nailed couple of nasty mid range jimmies which you can't set, it's not about team. While partially I agree that Serbia unleashed more fundamentals in that game and it's always deadly combination when player has both ISO and fundamentals (thus Jokic, SGA and Doncic being best players in the world ATM), but flawless tempo and intensity of Serbia's basketball in that game shouldn't be overlooked, That game was one of the best FIBA games ever. And it wasn't old school Serbia. It was new school Serbia with the shade of old school fundamentals.
Sure, defence playing key part still, I just meant you can't expect to win in old school way completely shutting down the tempo and playing ultra pesky D. Today you face too dominant opponents, athletic opponents who would brake this concept. You have to have dynamic and highly paced offense by your self.
True, Germans invested into foreign coaches, there's that in article too, I think I would like to see us doing more of that, specially in Youth section. We used to have some foreigners in senior NT staff, it wasn't bad idea. And surely we have to emphasis ISO game. We are lucky though to have ISO standouts for next 10-15 years with KJ, Buzelis, Jokubaitis, Indrusaitis, Marciulionis.
Serbian_Layup
Well-known member
How do you win against USA without high intensity, or how do you win any tournament without high intensity? Hitting shots with reasonable FG % is necessary to win basketball game, especially against USA. But we also missed wide open shots in that game too which could seal the game for us.
Serbia is not shutting down the tempo, in Manilla and Paris we played perfect mix of half court offense and transition offense. The tendency and philosophy of our basketball school and coaching is to find the best looking shots, make good decisions with the ball. That has always been our bread and butter which is why half court offense for our basketball is just the way to go. Including pushing the tempo and making transition plays whenever possible. For that you need good defense which we didn't have in this Eurobasket. It was working great in Manilla and Paris.
fasoulaki
Well-known member
I wouldn't say that there was no case. I would rather say that the case was resolved through an out-of-court settlement. .
Big Lebowski
Active member
He's not just a NBA MVP or Eurobasket top scorer: he led a team of homeless and trailer park title tonwin the NBA title. Sengun will never be able to do that. He's going to remain a good player with low IQ who is fine for giving his butt to some self assist.
SaliH
Member
Dude, come on, I bet that Milwaukee, although a small market town (for American standards) is still probably a richer city than wherever you live in- unless you are from Zurich, Oslo or Monaco… Plus Giannis had a pretty good cast of players around him- Jrue Holiday, Khris Middleton, Brook Lopez+ pretty nice hard workers like PJ Tucker, Bobby Portis, Connaughton, Jeff Teague. Of course that Giannis was and is the superstar but without the right pieces and good chemistry things do not happen no matter how good you are. In Milwaukee they managed to build a good collective of guys where everyone knew his role and the team hierarchy. Jrue was gone and here came a superstar like Dame but the Bucks didn’t look even close to their best… in the meantime Jrue was a main piece on dominating Celtics. Main word here is depth.
I know that you have some deep hate inside of you for anything Turkish but to call Sengun a low IQ guy is pathetic.
Hahahahahahah.
Victorious
Active member
Being probably the best in Europe in his era, Spanoulis also got a lot of comments from other players. Especially from players who never accomplished much. I guess he feels that one should not talk in this way to MVPs.
Giannis is not a great passer in the same way that Michael Jordan was not a great shooter. If Reggie Miller would say that Michael Jordan is not a great shooter after beating the Bulls, how do you suppose people would react?
Wait until both players careers are over, and if you think you have a case, then make your remark in a funny way. As the goats usually do.
Straight forward
Well-known member
Give respect to this man. He's carrying the best NT of 20's
Straight forward
Well-known member
Saras said EB25 was trash and he's right. Only Germany and Turkey provided top notch BB. That's weak ass EB. Nothing even remotely close 2022.
He’s right. It’s a joke, though, to compare it with the quality of EuroLeague teams. I’m not even talking about the limited time national teams have to build chemistry and habits, it’s more about how hard it is to watch. EuroLeague basketball has become soooo ugly, it´s painful. I’ve even started preferring regular season NBA games. Nowadays, it’s all about hunting mismatches, nobody takes risks, everything is super methodical, and the pace is so slow. And almost every team seems to play the same way, which is just really frustrating. I used to be hooked on EuroLeague games, and watching them was such a highlight for me, but that changed with the new format. Maybe it’s a coaching issue, as some EL coaches are either too restrictive in their coaching approach or heavily overrated, or perhaps it’s just the result of the sheer number of games and the lack of proper practice opportunities. I don´t know. Either way, the "Euroleague product" is way harder to watch than Eurobasket 25. And I know, he was speaking from a quality standpoint, so I might have gone a bit off topic.
Just a reminder: Germany is Eurobasket champion!
Straight forward
Well-known member
Yeah, good points. I think Saras prefers the actual level/competitiveness of basketball, instead of beauty of BB. He watches through the lens of the coach now obviously. He often says something like that. Previously had some comments, like there were only this or that game which was really interesting, nothing else.
TBH, I also enjoy FIBA BB more cause star players have more freedom, they do not overthink too much and there's more reliance on will and passion. Restrictions in EL often is a bummer. It kills the soul of the BB and competition, everything becomes too systematic, too machinery. But it is also more of a chess match. Those who want gladiators fight they would prefer FIBA, those who want chess will turn on EL.
Victorious
Active member
EL basketball looks bad because it’s only the beginning of the season. Basketball in October is not that good. New players have to become integrated. Teams want to start with a couple of wins in order to avoid pressure. So you end up with systematic basketball.
National teams which play good basketball usually have continuation.
The Eurobasket used to be the best national team competition. But now perhaps the WC may surpass that. Teams like Australia, USA, Canada just add another dimension to the game.
National teams which play good basketball usually have continuation.
The Eurobasket used to be the best national team competition. But now perhaps the WC may surpass that. Teams like Australia, USA, Canada just add another dimension to the game.