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THRYLOS2
Guest
Big Lebowski said:
Yeah, as it was not necessary in 2007 against Croatia... This "loser" carried 50% of our offesive attempts this year...
Yeah, as it was not necessary in 2007 against Croatia... This "loser" carried 50% of our offesive attempts this year...
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THRYLOS2
Guest
Minotavros said:
94: 4th
96: 5th
98: 4th
04: 5th
06: 2nd
08: 5th
Beeing continuously among the best 5 teams of the world, is a huge success for any country in any sports event..
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GR8BBALL2
Guest
This is close to the top of the world but not exactly there. Besides the 2nd position in 2006 I only see 4th and 5th places that amount to one medal in six compentitions. Also, falling from 2nd to 5th is definitely no success no matter how you see it.
But the most concerning thing for me is the development of young talent. RIght now I see most of the teams filling their rosters with players of questionable quality instead of giving opportunities to younger guys. I would like to see a plan that will help youngsters in the ages of 18-23 to reach their potential, because there has been too much wasted or underperforming talent in the last 20 years.
But the most concerning thing for me is the development of young talent. RIght now I see most of the teams filling their rosters with players of questionable quality instead of giving opportunities to younger guys. I would like to see a plan that will help youngsters in the ages of 18-23 to reach their potential, because there has been too much wasted or underperforming talent in the last 20 years.
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Minotavros2
Guest
Some guys here are Vasilakopoulos clones.
"Tsartsaris, Fotsis, Vasilopoulos top of the world!!"
I thought I heard it all but this was just to much
"Tsartsaris, Fotsis, Vasilopoulos top of the world!!"
I thought I heard it all but this was just to much
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Turkish Airlines Euroleague2
Guest
Minotavros said:
They are all good enough for our national team.
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THRYLOS2
Guest
GR8BBALL said:
Concerning the greek team's performance: Let us not argue whether a 4th or a 3rd place in a wc/oc means "top of the world". I mean there are more than 200 nations in the world. If you are the 4th/5th team, what does it mean? That you are mediocre? We are talking about knock out games, which are decided in the details. Everything can happen, the margin between a 5th place disappointment, and a medal triumph is very very thin...
Concerning the future: One month ago I read in Sportday that the gree federation has established new rules according to which at least 5 young players have to be in the roster for teams of the 3rd and 4th division. Besides, one young player always has to be on court. This is a wise step into the right direction. Many young players benefit from the fact, that 6 greeks have to be in a A1 roster. That is the reason why players like Vassilopoulos, Printezis, Perperoglou etc are essential parts of Europe's best teams. If you are good and if you deserve it, you will get your chance. Just like Perperoglou. He will be the starting sf next year. Obradovic trusts in his talent and did not pursue a good foreigner for the starter spot (Delfino etc). If you are good, you will get your minutes, like Verginis who shouldered PAOK for a long period of the last season. In this year Larissa will only play with greeks apart from 2 americans. Among them there will be alot of young players like Tsairelis, matalon, Manolopoulos, who will get their chance. It is up to them!
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THRYLOS2
Guest
Minotavros said:
So you must be the forum's clown, as I noticed. Once again, so that you also understand it: Tsartsaris and Co are individually not even top 50 players worldwide. But we are not talking about one vs one games. We are talking aboub basketball. As a team these players reached the top of Europe and of the world, either you like it or not. As long as Papanikolaou turns into a second Fotsis, Pappas into a secon Papaloukas etc., we have nothing to fear in future. And I personally have no doubt about it, as we have "produced" these players in the last 20 years, even under much worse conditions, when yugoslav players came en masse, all supplied with greek passports, and playing for an "apple and an egg", in times where the "6 greeks in a roster"-rule did not exist. I don't see the reason why this should suddnely happen now...but maybe you will tell me...
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Remon2
Guest
Minotavros said:
Excuse me dude, but this is one of the most retarded things I've seen. Even though they aren't the top players in the world in their positions, I'm pretty sure that most of the countries would be very very glad, I think I can't define how positive I am here, to have those 3 players, especialy those 3, in their teams.
EDIT: And who the fuck, sorry for my blundness, sees the greek future in the current young national teams, when most of our best players have developed later in their age?
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Minotavros2
Guest
Remon said:
Really???
Vasilopoulos and Tsartsaris are not in the top of the world category.
You can not compare them to international top players like Rudy Fernandez, Kirilenko, Gasol, Nowitzki, Ginobili. Those guys are top of the world. The Greek players are one or two levels below those guys.
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Remon2
Guest
Minotavros said:
So? How many of these players do you think these teams have? More than 2 each team? Ask Yao or Dirk or Manu or Kirilenko if they would like to have them in their current teams.
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Minotavros2
Guest
Remon said:
OK then.
Dirk, who do you want in your team, Vasilopoulos or Rudy Fernandez?
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Turkish Airlines Euroleague2
Guest
Minotavros said:
Wow! Is Rudy Fernandez in German NT ???
Oh, please...
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Minotavros2
Guest
Euroleague said:Wow! Is Rudy Fernandez in German NT ???
Oh, please...
I just answered to a scenario.
Posted by Remon:
So? How many of these players do you think these teams have? More than 2 each team? Ask Yao or Dirk or Manu or Kirilenko if they would like to have them in their current teams.
Anyway don't get me wrong.
The Greek players are good. They are good enough to contribute and be role players at top level European clubs.
But as much as you guys wish, NO Greek player is top of the world. Neither Fotsis or Vasilopoulos. Jeremiah Massey is better than Fotsis, but he ain't top of the world. If Vasilopoulos was american, Oly would have kicked him away long time ago. The fans would think, who the fuck is this american that our management brought, the guy cant even dribble and drive!!He can't even dunk!
But he is Greek, plays for a big club and thus is protected.
The Greek team can be rather competitive because there are about 10 players that are good Euroleague players, but to make that extra step you need to have 2-3 great players. You don't want a team where your biggest stars drive and dish again, again and again.
Greek basketball has problems. For the last 20 years Greek basketball hasn't managed to produce a real star (like Fernandez, Gasol, Ginobili, Stojakovic, Kirilenko). And it isn't because there has been a lack of talents. It is because of bad coaching and greek mentality.
I don't feel like Greek basketball is making any steps forward. There are some things that have to change. Greek basketball is good, but has to become better.
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FRANKY 132
Guest
Greece this last years had at least TWO players that had the talent to become world stars.
Rentzias and Big Sopho.
The first was trusted and was called in the NT , although his defence was non existing, destroying your argument claiming that greek coaches promote only defensive oriented players.
The second is a similar case. Being called repeteadly, although he s not exactly the biggest defensive weapon either.
Greece, and therefere greek coaches have no problem calling players with an offensive oriented mentality.
It s not the greek coaches fault if all the young greek talents stop working when they re 18, thus becoming ten times worse than players they used to smash when they were 18.
Oh and please since when a player like fernandez has more offensive talent than a player like spanoulis. Spanoulis averaged 15 points per game in his rookie season in the El while playing in a F4 caliber team. He s consistenly averaging more than 12 points per game in a team that was 2ond in the World in 2006, and averaged 15 points per game this year while shooting on 60 percent from the field.
fernandez was until this year just a role player in spain, and even now people like you claim he s a superstar just because he scored 20 against the USA. Well guess what spanoulis also scored 23 , the only difference is he actually won the game , being clutch and the MVP of the semifinal.
Spanoulis has nothing to envy to players like fernandez, delfino...
It s true that greece hasnt a superstar like gasol, ming, nowitzki or ginobili (only them, nobody else) but as I said thats not the fault of greek coaches. Finding such a player relies also on luck . Rentzias and sofo never became that player, koufos perhaps will.
The spanoulis -koufos duo can to my mind leed greece to success in the next years.
To not forget that greece s team is still young. You can not compare the 30+ year old ginobili or saras, to the 25 year old spanoulis.
I strongly believe that with the addition of koufos, the emergence of an even better spanoulis (he s improving every year) and even a partial resurrection of big sofo (yes I m still hoping he will be able to produce 10 good minutes, its not much to ask) greece will have more firepower than any european team, which combined to the 7-8 defensive or offensive role players such as fotsis, vassilopoulos, bouroussis, zisis, tsartsaris, will lead greece to success.
Rentzias and Big Sopho.
The first was trusted and was called in the NT , although his defence was non existing, destroying your argument claiming that greek coaches promote only defensive oriented players.
The second is a similar case. Being called repeteadly, although he s not exactly the biggest defensive weapon either.
Greece, and therefere greek coaches have no problem calling players with an offensive oriented mentality.
It s not the greek coaches fault if all the young greek talents stop working when they re 18, thus becoming ten times worse than players they used to smash when they were 18.
Oh and please since when a player like fernandez has more offensive talent than a player like spanoulis. Spanoulis averaged 15 points per game in his rookie season in the El while playing in a F4 caliber team. He s consistenly averaging more than 12 points per game in a team that was 2ond in the World in 2006, and averaged 15 points per game this year while shooting on 60 percent from the field.
fernandez was until this year just a role player in spain, and even now people like you claim he s a superstar just because he scored 20 against the USA. Well guess what spanoulis also scored 23 , the only difference is he actually won the game , being clutch and the MVP of the semifinal.
Spanoulis has nothing to envy to players like fernandez, delfino...
It s true that greece hasnt a superstar like gasol, ming, nowitzki or ginobili (only them, nobody else) but as I said thats not the fault of greek coaches. Finding such a player relies also on luck . Rentzias and sofo never became that player, koufos perhaps will.
The spanoulis -koufos duo can to my mind leed greece to success in the next years.
To not forget that greece s team is still young. You can not compare the 30+ year old ginobili or saras, to the 25 year old spanoulis.
I strongly believe that with the addition of koufos, the emergence of an even better spanoulis (he s improving every year) and even a partial resurrection of big sofo (yes I m still hoping he will be able to produce 10 good minutes, its not much to ask) greece will have more firepower than any european team, which combined to the 7-8 defensive or offensive role players such as fotsis, vassilopoulos, bouroussis, zisis, tsartsaris, will lead greece to success.
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Petran2
Guest
I still wonder why everybody here doesn't consider DD and Theo as stars - OK, they are not in the same level with Dirk and Ginobil (Although the 2005-2006 Theo was a PG killing machine - Unfortunatelly he peaked too late). For DD, I really want a coach to tell him that when he reaches the basket, he can shoot or dunk the ball with his physical attributes (Don't tell me that Diamantidis is a worst athlete than Fernadez).
Let's be fair - we may don't have a super-duper star but we have 3-4 major Euroleague stars and 6 first class Euroleague players.
Teams with such talent can be counted with the fingers of a single hand - And if we weren't in such a state of shock in the 2006 final, we would have been world champs.
Let's be fair - we may don't have a super-duper star but we have 3-4 major Euroleague stars and 6 first class Euroleague players.
Teams with such talent can be counted with the fingers of a single hand - And if we weren't in such a state of shock in the 2006 final, we would have been world champs.
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Minotavros2
Guest
Petran said:
Diamantidis is not the athlete Fernandez is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlP8tnHPwlI&feature=related
You guys here are big time homers. Diamantidis a better athlete than Fernandez?
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Minotavros2
Guest
FRANKY 13 said:
Koufos has better chances to make it because he has an american mentality
FRANKY 13 said:
Koufos will probably not come to play for the NT every year. I really doubt that.
FRANKY 13 said:
Spanoulis is 26 not 25.
Ginobili at 31 has declined a bit but he is still better than Spanoulis. Don't listen to the greek commentators. Ginobili at 31 could still toy with Spanoulis.
Ginobili at 26 had achieved a lot more than Spanoulis had done so far. Spanoulis failed in the NBA. Plus he hasn't even played a final four!
Ginobilis CV at 26 was more impressive
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FRANKY 132
Guest
Minotavros said:
Fair enough, although I compared Spanoulis with Fernandez and not with Ginobili, one of the best international players of all times. Anyway...
I hope you understand I do not disagree with Greece needing more firepower. However I believe that Greece lacks a dominant player in the post (again - Koufos maybe?) and a really talented swinger to become what u could call the perfect team with a certain dosis of provocative intention.
We actually do lack offensive talent compared to the 4 teams that are together with us the best of the decade (Argentina, Spain, Lithuania, USA). Nevertheless, the reason we undoubtedly belonged there until 2007 was mainly the amazing duo we have running the team: There is no Papaloukas or Diamantidis anywhere else. They are pure basketball jewels that the world has admired and prized since 2005. One average tournament is not going to change that. (Check Navarro and Calderon in this tournament for example and you all will see what I mean)
Their average scoring abilities do not mean they are not clutch or that they are afraid to step up whenever their offensively talentless (when compared to the crème de la crème) team requires it. That's why they are widely considered as two of the best playmakers ever to run the FIBA game. Very few playmakers have done that in the past. And the explanation is simple: The FIBA game especially requires the playmaker to set the game the proper way above everything, not to be the team's main offensive threat.
That is the whole truth gentlemen: We have 2 HUGE players in the team since 2005, but they both play the PM position. We need some top talent at the other positions too, and Spanoulis alone is not enough. I love more or less all the Greek players - they're almost all of them truly good players. The truth is though that none of them besides the two stars and until a certain extent Spanoulis is able to reach the top at his position. And until last year we had 8 of them, presenting an amazing depth on the bench, a considerable advantage when we are talking about a defensive oriented team. This year we all saw against Argentina that for obvious reasons the number dropped to 5.
Bottom line: We do need offensive power and experience, that is a fact. I really hope Koufos will improve a lot this year and be able to bring a solid contribution to the team next year. He is probably going to take Printezis' place in 2009. The swingman I was talking about is nowhere to be seen so we'll have to live without him. I also can't wait to see if Perperoglou improves his game, but that's kind of personal - as opposed to based on his impressive potential or anything of that kind. One last thing about Zisis: Please file, wake up for God's sake...
ps. Minotavros, you are totally right about Koufos and the American mentality. I do however keep my optimism as far as his chances to join the team regularly are concerned.
ps2. What happened with Kalathis and the Junior Men's team is a disgrace. Those kids should be ashamed of themselves. Hope Nick doesn't take it personally.
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Petran2
Guest
Minotavros said:
Diamantidis is not the athlete Fernandez is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlP8tnHPwlI&feature=related
You guys here are big time homers. Diamantidis a better athlete than Fernandez?
My friend, see this for some DD dunks. And if you see Fernandez blocking a 7 footer please post it for reference...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_qA7bZ7wTg
Fernandez is still half the player DD is. He might be a better dunker however..
Anyway, I would love to see DD stoping these split outs. But he is a terrific athlete...
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Petran2
Guest
What about Verginis? I believe he has many scoring abilities and his transfer to PAO will surely elevate his level.
I believe that he can contribute as a PG/SG in the NT given 2-3 years time...
(Someone should take over from Theo at that time
)
I believe that he can contribute as a PG/SG in the NT given 2-3 years time...
(Someone should take over from Theo at that time
)