Euroleague Awards

[Picek2]

i have seen that diamntidis is leading in the race for MVP(fans votes).
if a player who scores less then 9 ppg will be choosed for MVP,It will be badge of shame for the euroleague.

it's his defense that matters..
or something like that..
I'm sure Pao fans will come up with something

 

[Joško Poljak Fan2]

i have seen that diamntidis is leading in the race for MVP(fans votes).
if a player who scores less then 9 ppg will be choosed for MVP,It will be badge of shame for the euroleague.

as far as I am concerned a guy can come up with 5 points per game, 4 rebounds per game, 3 assists per game, 2 steals per game and 1 block per game and still win the MVP award... because stats don't show sh*t.
BBall is a team sport, with a team attitude and yes one player with such statistics can easily be the difference from winning the title to qualifying for top16 (although the comparison is extreme)- whoever says opposite never played the game the way itshould be...

Berni Rodriguez or Roger Grimau could easily be posting 20 points per game with their teams playing in order to achieve that, setting them up... but teams succes is what becomes questionable there. Do you think Rakočević isn't able to post up 30 points per game if his coach decided him to?

...and that's all the freaking difference between Divac/Sabonis or Garnett/Shareef Adbul freaking Raheem...
I really feel sorry for NBA from that pont of view...

 

[FRANKY 132]

i have seen that diamntidis is leading in the race for MVP(fans votes).
if a player who scores less then 9 ppg will be choosed for MVP,It will be badge of shame for the euroleague.

His index rating is the highest among PGs plus he has been consistent all year.

I dont think hes gonna be voted MVP.

I do believe, however, that unless one considers that PGs cant compete for the MVP award, It wouldnt be more unfair for Diamond Man to win it than to have Nash getting it in the NBA for the last couple of years.

 

[qiangdade2]

Nikola Vujcic is the clear MVP imo

1st team
Papaloukas, Langdon, Rakocevic, Scola, Vujcic

2nd team
Diamantidis, Navarro, Siskauskas, Smodis, Papadopoulos

 

[turkishpower2]

Well personally I don't think Diamantidis should win the DPOY for the 3rd consecutive time. Yeah, he is a great defender and a very good player but not that great to win it 3 times in a row. Just find somebody else, Vanterpool, Langdon, whoever you want, but that guy is not that superior from others to get it for 3 times. 1 or 2 is fine but 3 would be a shame.

 

[wardjdim2]

To all the Diamantidis supporters, once again, it isn't Diamantidis that I am attacking, but the Euroleague itself (only in case they don't reward Prigioni this year, of course).

Diamantidis' season was not spectacular, neither on the court nor on the stats sheet. We all know that this might not mean much, as the guy is an all-around, team-oriented, self-sacrificed, pass-first, defensively-minded, low-profile, anti-star (and other 2-word adjectives) player, yet there is always a general feeling that this year, he missed a chance to improve his offensive game, take more shots (and not only when needed), become a star player both sides and ALSO add aggressiveness in defense as well.

While Diamantidis was obviously nowhere near to a defensive-only guy, still his low-profile type of game, plus his team's excellent record and arguably top-3 status all season long made him an undoubtedly top-3 point guard this year (along with the two PGs of the other two top-3 teams, Prigioni and Papaloukas).

This is fair, but - on the other hand - like last year (Panathinaikos was a top-2 team during the regular season and again a group leader after the top-16), Prigioni and Papaloukas were the other 2 top point guards, rewarded with the 1st and 2nd All-Euroleague team selections, while Diamantidis received the DPoY award. We had 3 point guards for 3 positions and this is how it should happen this season as well. Why?

Because, Euroleague is slowly starting to work on building specific profiles on specific players. Guys who will never leave them to go to the NBA or guys who are around long enough to become their poster boys. They will depend on Diamantidis (for all the above reasons, plus he won't turn pro), Papaloukas (super-respected around, a top-5 PG in the world), Prigioni (pick n roll master, too old and unathletic for the NBA, team-oriented), Scola (their ultimate superstar in the low post, their top scorer, maybe the product's poster guy), Andersen (golden boy, with titles and success, not turning pro), Smodis (similar to Andersen), Vujcic (well touted big man, 2 titles, 2 All-Euroleague 1st-team selections so far, prototype passer, owner of the only triple-doubles here), Navarro (definition of best scorer and a true superstar in their city), Langdon (Duke star and lottery pick who has preferred them from the NBA and has been working on his all-around game, exactly the way the European coaches like; second coming of Anthony Parker). They will also bet on some young kids, so look for Ricky Rubio to possibly be their favorite for next season's DPoY, as they will try to take advantage of the wunderkid's profile and improve their status on growing youngsters into great players, at least as long as he will remain in Europe.

So, now that Prigioni (originally my pick for DPoY, with Diamantidis moving to the 2nd All-Euroleague team) didn't receive the first of the three positions/rewards, he must be a 2nd team selection. Euroleague needs to be fair here and, although it might seem unfair for Panathinaikos to only have one player among the top-10, don't forget that we are talking about the deepest team this season, a team with a great rotation and a team, a player of which has received the DPoY award already.

I continue to believe that they will keep up with rewarding these three specific PGs again. Diamantidis for DPoY (they need him to become their poster guy for defense), Prigioni for 2nd team (he is a complementary guy to the team's star, Scola, but clearly very important to the team as well, so not a superstar, but has the profile to be selected 2nd), Papaloukas for 1st team (something like the other two, but possesses the necessary star status to be considered the best PG in Europe).

It doesn't really matter that I think it was a bit unfair, myself. It is better to have unfair awards than not having star status in the competition. So, I still believe that the 2nd PG will (and should) be Prigioni. It's a matter of marketing, not of being fair..

 

[Yellow692]

His index rating is the highest among PGs plus he has been consistent all year.

I dont think hes gonna be voted MVP.

I do believe, however, that unless one considers that PGs cant compete for the MVP award, It wouldnt be more unfair for Diamond Man to win it than to have Nash getting it in the NBA for the last couple of years.

So? He isn't a star type and specially not an MVP type of player. Now niko is leading, and i hope it will stay like that(you can count on the israelien fans ). He should get the title. Took a team with a uleb cup backcourt to third game in the quaterfinals.

 

[Trifilli2]

).
Diamantidis' season was not spectacular, neither on the court nor on the stats sheet. We all know that this might not mean much, as the guy is an all-around, team-oriented, self-sacrificed, pass-first, defensively-minded, low-profile, anti-star (and other 2-word adjectives) player, yet there is always a general feeling that this year, he missed a chance to improve his offensive game, take more shots (and not only when needed), become a star player both sides and ALSO add aggressiveness in defense as well.

You still utterly fail to provide arguments for this theory of yours. Diamantidis put up the best stats he ever had in the EL this season and also had the best overall stats of all three nominated PGs this year in the EL. You might have this very feeling that he missed a chance to improve (that's why you also still label him a bad shooter, while he incredibly improved his 3P-shooting, ranking 1st in the A1 and 9th in the EL for 3P%) - there's nothing that proves though that this feeling of yours is the reality. In reality Diamantidis improved his game this season and is the heart and engine of PAO.

While Diamantidis was obviously nowhere near to a defensive-only guy, still his low-profile type of game, plus his team's excellent record and arguably top-3 status all season long made him an undoubtedly top-3 point guard this year (along with the two PGs of the other two top-3 teams, Prigioni and Papaloukas).

This is fair, but - on the other hand - like last year (Panathinaikos was a top-2 team during the regular season and again a group leader after the top-16), Prigioni and Papaloukas were the other 2 top point guards, rewarded with the 1st and 2nd All-Euroleague team selections, while Diamantidis received the DPoY award. We had 3 point guards for 3 positions and this is how it should happen this season as well.

Diamantidis was left out last season, because his team didn't reach the F4, unlike Prigionis TAU or Papaloukas CSKA - a perfectly correct decision. However this year things changed, Diamantidis team easily reached the F4 and he was one of the main reason for that, playing much better than Prigioni in the Top16 and Quarterfinals, and that's why he should end up at least in the 2nd team.

So, now that Prigioni (originally my pick for DPoY, with Diamantidis moving to the 2nd All-Euroleague team) didn't receive the first of the three positions/rewards, he must be a 2nd team selection. Euroleague needs to be fair here and, although it might seem unfair for Panathinaikos to only have one player among the top-10, don't forget that we are talking about the deepest team this season, a team with a great rotation and a team, a player of which has received the DPoY award already.

It's not like some obscure EL manager gave Diamantidis that award. The EL coaches (and only them, no freaking journalists, no fans) voted for him - and who should know better than the guys who had him playing against their teams? You make it sound like it was Euroleagues agenda to give Diamantidis that award, which is simply wrong. Talking about fairness also seems weird here to me, because it would only be fair to put Diamantidis into the 2nd team, as he played much better than Prigioni in the Top16 and Quarterfinals. Putting Prigioni into the 2nd team despite playing worse than 3D, only because Diamantidis was selected by the EL coaches as DPoY would be anything but fair.

I continue to believe that they will keep up with rewarding these three specific PGs again. Diamantidis for DPoY (they need him to become their poster guy for defense), Prigioni for 2nd team (he is a complementary guy to the team's star, Scola, but clearly very important to the team as well, so not a superstar, but has the profile to be selected 2nd), Papaloukas for 1st team (something like the other two, but possesses the necessary star status to be considered the best PG in Europe).

They need him? Who is "they"? The EL coaches? Do you think that Bertomeu asked them to vote for Diamantidis? C'mon, please don't continue these weird conspiracy theories...

It doesn't really matter that I think it was a bit unfair, myself. It is better to have unfair awards than not having star status in the competition. So, I still believe that the 2nd PG will (and should) be Prigioni. It's a matter of marketing, not of being fair..

Yeah, now you name it, you're not talking about fairness reasons but about an agenda the EL should have in your opinion. Let's hope that things will go a different way and that the players will be awarded for what they did on the floor. So far the awards were all fair and it should continue that way.

 

[wardjdim2]

I think that it is pointless to discuss about fair awards at the moment that Euroleague only has one promo video in youtube, has some of the worse and less understandable posters in the streets of Athens concerning their top product (the Final Four), hasn't yet promoted a decent star system because they are afraid that their stars will leave for the NBA and is still lacking a record (team, player, competition) portrayal in the official site.

This competition still lacks fundamentals in order to become more popular and better functioning. Till then, I don't really care whether it will be fair for Diamantidis to be or not be selected in the 2nd All-Euroleague team. It will be enough with me to see some progress in the star system.

 

[Trifilli2]

I think that it is pointless to discuss about fair awards at the moment that Euroleague only has one promo video in youtube, has some of the worse and less understandable posters in the streets of Athens concerning their top product (the Final Four), hasn't yet promoted a decent star system because they are afraid that their stars will leave for the NBA and is still lacking a record (team, player, competition) portrayal in the official site.

This competition still lacks fundamentals in order to become more popular and better functioning. Till then, I don't really care whether it will be fair for Diamantidis to be or not be selected in the 2nd All-Euroleague team. It will be enough with me to see some results in the star system.

Well, you're right that Euroleague needs to improve a lot of this (although I disagree about a few things) and I read yours and qiangdades post about your ideas for a better Euroleague with big interest , but I'd still like to have fair awards. I don't see the point why your mentioned star system wouldn't work if based on what the players show on the floor. TAU will certainly have two players in the 2 teams, most likely in the first team, plus Rakocevic got the Alphonso Ford trophy. I still don't get your point here, a star system won't work if all the trophies go to one or two teams only - this is not only wrong from the fairness point of view, but also from the marketing side. How would you justify from that perspective that a clear top-3 team like PAO would only have one player in the two All-EL teams? (with the most important one being left out) It will maybe make TAU fans (like you) happy, but it won't help the EL marketing at all, because with a star system like you want it, you'd need to have stars in as many different teams as possible (without looking ridicoulous - where we reach the point again that you can only put in players, who indeed were the best), and not as many stars as possible in one or two teams.

Btw (leaving the discussion about Diamantidis), I'd have voted for Vujcic hands down if Maccabi reached the F4, but I find it somehow difficult to select a MVP at this point of the season, when his team didn't reach the F4. Imo the MVP should be from one of the F4 teams, even though I think that Vujcic was the best EL player this season.

 

[wardjdim2]

And you are coming to my words...

A star system cannot have one player winning both the DPoY award and being a member of the two Euroleague teams. Diamantidis (as much as I like him) isn't exactly to Euroleague what ...Tim Duncan is to the NBA. And Timmy is only making it in the All-Defensive first team, without even winning this award! This has nothing to do with Diamantidis' defensive abilities (exceptional, especially when it comes to zone defenses, when he has to guard space), but with the combination of both being valuable on court and the best defensive player. This is what I call "overrating".

On the other hand, maybe not including an Unicaja player in the top-11 (absolutely hilarious, since it was a top-10 all the time ) selections isn't that unfair, because a pick of Santiago (for example) would mean that Papadopoulos would be left out or Pepe Sanchez would keep one of the PGs out of the list. So, when someone cannot even explain how a team without a star made it in the F4, the star system needs to be built well enough in order to cover such possibilities.

As for Rakocevic winning the top scorer trophy, sorry for that, but this isn't an award. The top scorer just wins it, no matter what anyone thinks.

EDIT: When it comes to the MVP vote, I also agree on Vujcic's clear cut MVP season, index-wise, but this will only be enough to get him in the top-3 candidates (clearly, I can't see a fourth real one here).
Imo, Scola, Papaloukas and Vujcic are the only true MVP candidates this year. There is no other guy who can have even a slight chance..

 

[qiangdade2]

Ok, now i feel forced to jump into the discussion to clarify my position. Imo this years DPoy was not a clear choice like the pas 2 years, but diamantidis WAS the best defender once again this year, so it is a fair award. Then i completely disagree with wardjdim about prigioni and the whole conspiracy theory. Diamantidis was clearly better than prigioni, he did improve his game alot, became a leader and proved he can carry a team to the f4, being the only PG in the team. Papaloukas 1st euroleague team and Diamantidis 2nd imo. Not gonna go into the marketing thing as it has been analyzed over and over again. The Euroleague does have a star system, regardless the awards, and it just has to build on that. Giving an undeserved award to prigioni is not the way and it surely isn't a decent marketing plan to build on the existing star system. IMO

 

[Trifilli2]

And you are coming to my words...

A star system cannot have one player winning both the DPoY award and being a member of the two Euroleague teams. Diamantidis (as much as I like him) isn't exactly to Euroleague what ...Tim Duncan is to the NBA. And Timmy is only making it in the All-Defensive first team, without even winning this award! This has nothing to do with Diamantidis' defensive abilities (exceptional, especially when it comes to zone defenses, when he has to guard space), but with the combination of both being valuable on court and the best defensive player. This is what I call "overrating".

Well, you simply fail to see the fact that Diamantidis is indeed that important to PAO, both on the defensive and offensive end. You still fail to adress why you still label him a bad shooter, you still fail to provide arguments why he didn't improve in your opinion. Your entire argument is that Diamantidis shouldn't be in one of the EL teams because he was selected as DPoY by the EL coaches. I once again ask you why he shouldn't be selected into one of the All-EL teams as well, when he clearly played better than Prigioni this season, led his team to the F4, playing on a high constant level and playing his best EL season so far.
You also fail to adress how it'd help the EL marketing having three TAU players in the All-EL teams and only 1 PAO player, I don't see where I'm coming to your words there.

On the other hand, maybe not including an Unicaja player in the top-11 (absolutely hilarious, since it was a top-10 all the time ) selections isn't that unfair, because a pick of Santiago (for example) would mean that Papadopoulos would be left out or Pepe Sanchez would keep one of the PGs out of the list. So, when someone cannot even explain how a team without a star made it in the F4, the star system needs to be built well enough in order to cover such possibilities.

Well, Unicaja was arguably a class below TAU, PAO and CSKA and reached the F4 after a pretty bad regular season. Still one could've argued that Santiago might've deserved to make the 2nd team, but with the regular season that Malaga played it'd be rather difficult to leave another player out for him.
I'm completely against having a star system covering cases such as the one of Unicaja, if that's your intention, you can explain why a team like them reached the F4 easily without such a star system.
Players should reach star status through their work on the floor, and not because ULEB decides who should be a star and who not. And these awards should be awards for those who were the best in the respective categories throughout a season - and not for those who are selected ULEB stars. I'd have no problem actually calling Sanchez and Santiago Unicajas stars or even EL stars - they just didn't play as well as the nominated players throughout the season.

As for Rakocevic winning the top scorer trophy, sorry for that, but this isn't an award. The top scorer just wins it, no matter what anyone thinks.

So what? Thinking in your star system it still gives him star status, because winning such a trophy gives him a lot of publicity in the press, he gets mentioned more among the top scorers of the competition and also will be remembered as the first european to win this trophy in the ULEB EL.

@qiangdade Thanks, that's exactly my point (just read your post after previewing my one)

 

[wardjdim2]

I think that there is no way to communicate with you, guys.

Even if Prigioni was slightly worse than Diamantidis either in defense or in the game organization, even if Planinic helped him more than Panathinaikos' teammates aided Diamantidis, it still makes no sense to see Diamantidis getting rewarded twice and Prigioni not even once. It's that simple.

By the way, I can see the importance of Diamantidis in Panathinaikos and that's why I still yell that there is no PG as talented as he is in the Euroleague (Papaloukas is of course a better player in the big games and has a much stronger winning character, but talent-wise, Diamantidis is just the best in Europe imo), but his passive character and no will to become a protagonist have started to really annoy me.

I think that I will have to go with what Markoishvilli (Kristian) told me some months ago. "Diamantidis is a boring player." He takes no risks. He has a great team character and is amazingly skilled, but he is scared to proceed to the star level. He is not a star. He deserves to be a Defensive Player of the Year. That's his class, indeed. That's his star ceiling. Prigioni (though clearly having less potential than Diamantidis when it comes to talent, he has a winning character, that Diamantidis doesn't possess) is a player that can be an All-Euroleague selection, behind Papaloukas of course.

EDIT: From what I recall, the two teams are decided on Saturday, the day after the 2 semi-final games.

You can now understand what will judge the 2nd team selection The Tau-Panathinaikos game and the key PG Match-Up.

 

[Trifilli2]

I think that there is no way to communicate with you, guys.

Even if Prigioni was slightly worse than Diamantidis either in defense or in the game organization, even if Planinic helped him more than Panathinaikos' teammates aided Diamantidis, it still makes no sense to see Diamantidis getting rewarded twice and Prigioni not even once. It's that simple.

It's only that simple for you and that's the reason why there's no way to communicate with you, you're simply too subjective and too much of a diehard TAU fan to understand why it'd be unfair to award Prigioni despite the fact that he played worse than Diamantidis (and not slightly worse in the Top16 and Quarterfinals, but way worse). If a player is the best defensive player and 2nd best PG in the competition he also deserves to get these awards, no matter how much you'd love to give all awards to TAU.

By the way, I can see the importance of Diamantidis in Panathinaikos and that's why I still yell that there is no PG as talented as he is in the Euroleague (Papaloukas is of course a better player in the big games and has a much stronger winning character, but talent-wise, Diamantidis is just the best in Europe imo), but his passive character and no will to become a protagonist have started to really annoy me.

Yeah, this is what we all can see and what I've seen so many times from you before. You judge players from your very personal expections and hype - and if they don't live up to what you decide they should reach, then you get annoyed by them and call them bad all of a sudden, this behaviour makes you even that blind to still label a player as a bad shooter, who ranks 1st in the A1 and 9th in the EL for 3P%. Like back in the Slovenia case during the EC 2005, you go from one extreme to the other. Don't hype players that much and you won't be that disappointed by them later. Diamantidis is no Michael Jordan and he never had the talent to be one, he's a great EL PG nevertheless.

I think that I will have to go with what Markoishvilli (Kristian) told me some months ago. "Diamantidis is a boring player." He takes no risks. He has a great team character and is amazingly skilled, but he is scared to proceed to the star level. He is not a star. He deserves to be a Defensive Player of the Year. That's his class, indeed. That's his star ceiling. Prigioni (though clearly having less potential than Diamantidis when it comes to talent, he has a winning character, that Diamantidis doesn't possess) is a player that can be an All-Euroleague selection, behind Papaloukas of course.

Yeah, right, this is really ridiculous, Diamantidis is a part of every 2nd highlight material scene of PAO and you call him a boring player. If you're talking about his role in the game on the other hand, then you're not knowing a thing about Obradovic, who'd never allow a player to get out of the role he wants him to have, who'd never tolerate a player in his team (especially on the PG position), who'd not follow his game plan.
And saying that Diamantidis doesn't have winning character is just crazy, he has made so many clutch plays, decided so many games - but Mr. ward decides that he doesn't have winning character, because he wants Prigioni to get selected into the 2nd team. Man, get a bit objective once in a while when TAU is involved, this is really getting annoying - or would you like to get me started on how soft Luis Scola is, and that Mike Batiste would deserve a nomination much more because his dunks are more spectacular (which would be as crazy as you calling Diamantidis as boring player).

 

[KokkinosVasilias2]

Questions:

the MVP award is for the Best player or for the Most Valuable Player?

what is the difference between these two?

 

[wardjdim2]

I am too tired for all these foolish accusations on my ...subjectivity.

It becomes personal here and I don't want to continue. When I am saying that Diamantidis is my favorite player and I still cannot see any reason for him to get overrated, I think that I am as objective as anyone in here.

If something is becoming annoying, it is your attempts to call me subjective and a hardcore Tau fan. If I was a hardcore Tau fan, I would say that Splitter should've beaten Rudy for the U-22 PoY award. I didn't say that, because I am objective and Rudy won fair and square and without the tiniest doubt.

As for my preference to Prigioni, I think that his importance to Tau last season was so high that Pini Gherson's idea to completely block his passing game and struggle his creativity and cut his bridges towards Luis Scola and (the injured during the first half of the game) Tiago Splitter were the main reason for Maccabi's dominance in last year's semi-final. Prigioni is equally important this year. He might be a second-tier player in the NT of Argentina, but he is a real star in Euroleague and had probably a career year in the team with the best record.

Btw, Trif, what an uncharacteristic and classless move to become even more provocative, by referring to posts of almost two years ago, when I was clearly hysterical about a loss that I was considering much more important than what it really was. I wouldn't expect from a serious poster and moderator to remind me of separated and isolated bad moments of my past, here, especially when I haven't shown similar behavior since then.

 

[Trifilli2]

I am too tired for all these foolish accusations on my ...subjectivity.

It becomes personal here and I don't want to continue. When I am saying that Diamantidis is my favorite player and I still cannot see any reason for him to get overrated, I think that I am as objective as anyone in here.

If something is becoming annoying, it is your attempts to call me subjective and a hardcore Tau fan. If I was a hardcore Tau fan, I would say that Splitter should've beaten Rudy for the U-22 PoY award. I didn't say that, because I am objective and Rudy won fair and square and without the tiniest doubt.

Well, I regard it as very subjective that you never adress all the arguments and statistics that were provided by pro-Diamantidis posters. What kind of arguments did you bring up to prove that Diamantidis didn't improve? What kind of arguments did you bring up to label him a bad shooter? What kind of arguments did you bring up to question his winning character? This is subjective and I couldn't care less if you consider this comment a foolish accusation or not. Provide some arguments and I'll stop calling you subjective (not that I think that you care that I do call you like that). You can call me subjective as well (I certainly am as a PAO fan) but I at least try to back this up with some arguments.

As for my preference to Prigioni, I think that his importance to Tau last season was so high that Pini Gherson's idea to completely block his passing game and struggle his creativity and cut his bridges towards Luis Scola and (the injured during the first half of the game) Tiago Splitter were the main reason for Maccabi's dominance in last year's semi-final. Prigioni is equally important this year. He might be a second-tier player in the NT of Argentina, but he is a real star in Euroleague and had probably a career year in the team with the best record.

Well, I agree until the last sentence. I never questioned Prigionis abilities, however I'd disagree strongly about him having a career year, he just didn't play well enough in the Top16 and Quarterfinals for that.

Btw, Trif, what an uncharacteristic and classless move to become even more provocative, by referring to posts of almost two years ago, when I was clearly hysterical about a loss that I was considering much more important than what it really was. I wouldn't expect from a serious poster and moderator to remind me of separated and isolated bad moments of my past, here, especially when I haven't shown similar behavior since then.

Save that for somebody else, I couldn't care less. I consider your comments that it's not possible to communicate with quingdade and me classless as well, it shows a pattern of arrogance that I don't like to see at all. So don't be a hypocrite complaining about me mentioning a certain incident, when you began posting classless comments here.

 

[qiangdade2]

Even if Prigioni was slightly worse than Diamantidis either in defense or in the game organization, even if Planinic helped him more than Panathinaikos' teammates aided Diamantidis, it still makes no sense to see Diamantidis getting rewarded twice and Prigioni not even once. It's that simple.

That's just hilarious. You just self-defined yourself as completely subjective. You agree Diamantidis was better in defence, you also agree that he played better throughout the season but you disagree that he should get both awards?? So you would have a player as second best or best defender though he wasn't?? And call that fair? Ridiculous at best! Diamantidis was better in defence than prigioni thus he gets the award. Diamantidis played better than prigioni this season thus he gets the award. It's that simple.

 

[wardjdim2]

I will write this post and only this one now, just to make sure that you both read clearly, especially now that you both (Panathinaikos and, unfortunately, at least Trif, subjective enough, after his own comment) might be slightly focused on the arguments wrote that I don't provide to back-up my statements.

Firstly, qiang, I never wrote all these things you posted. This was a clear-cut hypothesis.

Second, Trif, a shooter needs to have good, or at least above-average shooting mechanics. Diamantidis is suffering from that and has limited potential when it comes to shooting. As it happens in any other part of his game, Diamantidis is trying to reach his own ceiling and has almost reached it, even in shooting. Unfortunately, this ceiling is low. He is not a static shooter, he is not a moving shooter, he is not quick in his release. He is rarely shooting when guarded, or at least shooting well, while guarded. He used to be a poor shooter and now he is average at best. His numbers don't really mean much, when he is not well guarded. Indeed, if he really was a three-point threat, he would have the chance to score so many more points, because he would be in position to use his shooting threat as an alternative, in order to use more his slashing skills, clearly the strongest move of his offensive game. Still, he is just an average shooter at best, so his offensive game is much predictable and (even worse), his hesitation to finish (another amazing skill that he possesses) when slashing makes him even less dangerous. Launching his weird passes in the perimeter after a drive is becoming the most known move in Europe in our days.

As for the star system in Europe, I only have to say that, with such a limited number of awards (clearly a BIG mistake of the Euroleague so far), it is really sad that there is no variety of players that can become more famous around the globe. The lack of awards just doesn't take advantage of some other players' skills and this is bad for the players' motivation (wouldn't it be great to see a 1st/2nd defensive team as well, when some players from non top-16 teams would be included?), product's expansion and sponsor's involvement with the product. Players won't become known with this tactic. It is too sad that I googled the name Diamantidis in the "Google news" one day after he got the DPoY award and the only site that was mentioning it was Euroleague.net.

I think that, even if it was fair, it would be ridiculous not to open up the system, not to get more players involved in the game, not to make the star system more broadened. Diamantidis has been a very good defensive player, however he wasn't clearly the best this season. Other guys like Prigioni, Rubio, Langdon and Vanterpool were equally effective in the season and Euroleague's decision to pick him again is mainly taken due to their attempt to "photograph" him as the defensive prototype for the competition/product. I think that this is enough. He isn't the only player in the competition. There are more guys around. Let's not ignore them.

That's all I' m saying. How this is "subjective" or coming from a ..."Tau hardcore fan"? I can't understand it (btw, now that I recall it, two days ago, in a chatting with JCN, I was picking Rudy instead of Rakocevic for the 4th G/F selection. That's how "subjective" I was)...