Interbasket

Kobe Bryant surpassed the 20,000 point mark the other night making him the youngest player to meet that milestone at 29 years, 122 days.

His mark beat Wilt Chamberlain by almost two weeks (Chamberlain was 29 years, 134 days old). Michael Jordan, the only other player to reach the mark before turning 30, was 29 years, 326 days old.

Rounding out the top-five in the youngest-to-20,000 is Oscar Robertson at 30 years and 97 days old, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (30 years, 342 days).

Sounds cool, but what does it really mean?
With all this talk about this youngest-to-20,000-record has left me scratching my head. I know it’s a nice-sounding record, and a cool news item, but what does it mean?

Being a stats-kinda-guy, it’s really just a title with no real basis for real comparisons. Perhaps if all NBA players entered the league at the same age, then the record would have some weight with me, but that’s not the case - making all this hype about Kobe being the youngest to hit 20,000 just that, hype.

And with all that hype, I don’t want anyone thinking that youngest equals fastest.

As far as which players were the quickest to 20,000 points, we looked at it with an apples-to-apples comparison. By looking at the amount of games-played to get to 20,000 points as our measure - Wilt, Jordan, Big-O, Kareem and ten other players reached that plateau faster than Kobe Bryant.

With games played as our gauge, Kobe fell to 15th on that list.

So it comes as no surprise that Wilt Chamberlain got there first with his gaudy scoring averages; the Stilt achieved 20,000 points in only 499 games - that’s an amazing average of 40.1 points/per game.

By comparison, it took Kobe Bryant 811 games at his 24.7ppg career average. That means it took him 312 more games than Wilt Chamberlain to reach 20,000, but that’s nothing to get down about, no other player is even close to Wilt’s mark.

Michael Jordan was second, no surprise there, needing only 620 games to reach 20,000 points (at 32.3ppg). Oscar Robertson (671, 29.8ppg), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (684, 29.2ppg), Elgin Baylor (711, 28.1ppg) fill out the top-five in this list.

Allen Iverson, whom came into the league the same year as Kobe, was sixth on the list and accomplished the 20K point mark in 713 games, almost 100 games less than Kobe.

Going through some internet-research and using basketball-reference.com, I was able to determine that Kobe’s best friend, Shaquille O’Neal reached 20,000 points faster, needing only 727 games. Dominique Wilkins (763) and Kobe’s former teammate Karl Malone did it quicker (772 games). So did Larry Bird, albeit by a hair (809). Other players that Kobe would find himself behind in this list are Jerry West, George Gervin, and Bob Petit.

Check out the list I compiled:

List of Players to Reach 20,000 with games played:

1. Wilt Chamberlain (499 games) during the 1965-66 season (7th NBA season)
2. Michael Jordan (620) January 08, 1993 vs Milwukee Bucks (9th)
3. Oscar Robertson (671) during the 1968-69 season (9th)
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (684) during the 1976-77 season (9th)
5. Elgin Baylor (711) during the 1968-69 season (11th)
6. Allen Iverson (713) January 23, 2007 vs. Denver Nuggets (11th)
7. Jerry West (~720) during the 1970-71 season (11th)
8. Shaquille O’Neal (727) March 20, 2003 vs. Sacramento Kings (11th)
9. George Gervin (~745) during the 1985-86 season (10th)
10. Bob Petit (~760) November 13, 1964 (11th)
11. Dominique Wilkins (763) November 05, 1992 vs New York Knicks (10th)
12. Karl Malone (772) Jan 20, 1995 vs Cleveland Cavs (10th)
13. Adrian Dantley (775) December 11, 1987 vs. Washington Bullets (12th)
14. Larry Bird (809) Nov 20, 1990 vs Washington Bullets (12th)
15. Kobe Bryant (811) December 23, 2007 vs New York Knicks (12th)

• Hakeem Olajuwon (833) November 11, 1995 vs. Minnesota Timberwolves (12th)
• Moses Malone (837) April 12, 1987 vs. Detroit Pistons (11th NBA season)
• Charles Barkley (858) February 08, 1996 vs New Jersey Nets (12th)
• Alex English (903) January 06, 1988 vs. New Jersey Nets
• Clyde Drexler (967) November 24, 1996 vs Los Angeles Lakers (13th)
• Kevin Garnett (*975) *projected games (13th)

For several of the older players (~), individual boxscores weren’t available and information was hard to find, but I was able to deduce enough to get an approximate games played. Anyone have exact numbers, please let me know.

Yes, it’s definitely great company. Yes, Kobe Bryant is an awesome player. And Kobe did reach the milestone before players like Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Mitch Richmond, Clyde Drexler, and Kevin Garnett, but I wanted to make sure we took a look at this on a fair and quantifiable level.

Predicting LeBron’s Run to 20,000: If LeBron James stays healthy, all of Kobe’s “youngest to reach xxxxx points” records are going to be annihilated. In LeBron James’s first four seasons he accumulated 8439 points in 316 games, which equals 26.7 points per game. James is about to turn 23 years old (in 6 days) so he’s not even close to reaching his prime yet.

In predicting when LeBron will hit 20,000, let’s be conservative and say he averages 28 points over the next 6 seasons with an average of 74 games played. That means he’ll score ~2072 points in each of those seasons. This means that LeBron will reach 20,000 points in his 10th season, around his 730th game. Going with this prediction, LeBron James will just have turned 28 years old.

God I’m old.

Keep in mind that the above is a pretty conservative estimate. If LeBron stays injury-free, he is likely to average more than 28ppg in three of those seasons, for every point he goes over 28ppg in the next six season will bring him higher up on the list. Conservatively, we can say he’ll get to 20,000 in 730 games (good for #9 on the list), but I bet it’ll be closer to 700 games, which will put him #5 on the list behind Oscar Robertson and Kareem but above Elgin Baylor, Allen Iverson and Jerry West. And he’ll reach the 20,000 plateau at 27 years of age which is 2 years younger than Kobe.

Wow. I think it’s much more amazing when youngest records jibes with fastest records.

Sources: Bryant becomes youngest NBA player to reach 20,000 points (AFP), Kobe Bryant Reaches 20,000-Point Plateau (Nba.com), Jordan records 20,000 career points 2nd fastest (FindArticles), Basketball-Reference’s Individual Game Results (Basketball-reference.com), Kobe Youngest to 20,000 NBA Points (IBN Forum)

With the start of the 2007-08 NBA season upon us, I’m sure David Stern has taken notice of a small but significant pattern from this off-season. I’m not talking about perennial Kobe Bryant drama or the KG trade, this involves names that aren’t all household names, but the direction of the moves are making the NBA Commissioner a little more than uneasy.

This 2007 summer has seen a number of players who have either left the NBA for leagues in Europe or have used the European leagues as leverage in their contract negotiations. Every day we come closer to the start of NBA training camps, and NBA heads should pay close attention to several situations that have already past and more importantly, to the outstanding issues that have yet to be resolved.

Vasillis Spanoulis, the little-used Greek guard that was pivotal in defeating Team USA at the 2006 World Championships and a benchwarmer for the Houston Rockets last season, has already decided he would rather return to Panathinaikos of the Greek league rather that ride the bench for another team in Texas - the San Antonio Spurs (the team he was traded to).

Not that big of news right? I agree. In of itself, it’s another case of Arvydas Macijauskas, a player that will be easily forgotten in the US. Though Macijauskas is a huge star in Europe, he never gained any traction in the NBA as the Lithuanian sharpshooter rode the bench for New Orleans during the 05-06 season. Macas, as he is known, chose to return to Europe after that one season. He chose more playing time rather than earning his time in the NBA. It makes more sense. It’s a matter of what’s best for the player in the short-term. That’s more than likely how Spanoulis will be remembered.

However in early September, Sarunas Jasikevicius, the Lithuanian guard that led his home-country Lithuania qualify for the 2008 Olympics, asked the Golden State Warriors to release or trade him. The Warriors chose the former and waived Jasikevicius.

Since then, the European superstar has returned to the Euroleague and hasn’t missed a step, joining Spanoulis in Panathinaikos backcourt. Again, nothing earth-shattering, but Jasikevicius was one of the many international players that had a reputation in the NBA. If Sarunas had stayed, he could have found a job in the NBA - there are several NBA teams looking for an experienced leader on the floor and a proven winner.

At this point, you may be asking yourself “What are you getting at?”

Add Sasha Pavlovic to the mix. The guard-forward who had a breakout last season with Cleveland cannot come to terms with the Cavs on his contract extension. If the two sides don’t get any closer to signing a contract, Pavlovic and his agent have made it clear that they are ready to do more than just entertain talks with European teams that are interested in the Serbian’s services. As of this post, Pavlovic has missed every one of Cleveland’s preseason games.

Then there’s the case of Andrei Kirilenko, who led Russia to a gold medal at this year’s Eurobasket. The Eurobasket MVP announced through a Russian blog that he is willing to drop the remaining amount of his $63m contract and head back to Europe rather than returning to Salt Lake City to endure another season of Jerry Sloan. The former NBA all-star was explicit and adamant about his position and AK can certainly play anywhere in the world. AK has since been tight-lipped and is participating in Utah’s summer leagues and camp.

If it was only Spanoulis and Jasikevicius leaving, many would simplify the moves as frustrated Europeans unable to make it in the NBA. However, if an up-and-coming player like Pavlovic and former NBA All-Star Kirilenko decides to head home to play, I believe that signifies a trend that would immediately dilute the NBA talent pool and give rise to a competing league.

Just a five-six years ago, no one would believe that an international player returning home would dilute NBA talent. In fact it was more likely that they would believe it would actually enhance the NBA’s talent pool. Back then, it was arguable. Now, however, is a different era and the same xenophobic attitude will get you laughed out of serious basketball conversations.

With the influx of international superstars into the NBA (Nowitzki, Yao Ming, Manu Ginobili, Steve Nash), national teams from around the world defeating the US in international competitions becoming less jaw-dropping. And some of the top-European clubs defeating NBA teams in friendly matches (Maccabi Tel Aviv defeating the Toronto Raptors (2005), FC Barcelona topping the Philadelphia 76ers (2006), and CSKA Moscow defeating the LA Clippers (2006)), there is no doubt that basketball is on more equal footing globally.

And that balance is especially apparent in the European leagues where the development and talent is second only to the NBA.

Though the best outside the USA, European leagues were historically where older NBA players would see their last playing days out. They were leagues for players no longer ready for prime-time or players whose NBA careers never even began. Players that fell under these categories included the likes of former UCLA-star Tyus Edney, Dominique Wilkins, Bob McAdoo, Toronto Raptor Anthony Parker, Louis Bullock, Scoonie Penn, and Trajan Langdon.

And it wasn’t only because the talent wasn’t strong in Europe, it was also because the money wasn’t comparable nor as stable in Europe. With the shrinking dollar against the Euro and the rising popularity of basketball globally, that barrier isn’t nearly as obvious any longer.

And that is most apparent in the rumor reported by the Detroit Free Press recently - Chris Webber has been offered a two-year contract by Greek club Olympiakos for reportedly $10-12m/season. Not chump change by any standard. If true, it would make Chris Webber the highest-paid American player in Europe EVER. (Webber has sinced turned the offer down)

It seems as if the scales may be tipping a little more in favor of the European leagues. If the aforementioned players leave, it could be an epiphany for other players (and their agents) like Anderson Varejao from Brazil and other free agents yet to sign for the upcoming season.

And it’s not just the European players; it’s becoming an issue for even American-born players. Just these last couple months, three NBA players (including Webber) made waves by utilizing the Euroleagues as leverage for their NBA negotiations.

Charlie Bell, a former Michigan State player and current Milwaukee Buck, threatened to sign with Greek team Olympiakos in order to escape the Bucks. Bell isn’t a superstar, but he did average a respectable 13.5 points, 3 rebs, 3 assts and 1.2 steals last year - some NBA team definitely could use him. Now, I realize that could have been a ploy by Bell to get the Bucks to release him from his contract (they didn’t, they matched the offer sheet by the Miami Heat), but the fact that he and his agent used Olympiakos as leverage shows that this isn’t your father’s Euroleague anymore.

There is the case of Dee Brown, the former Illinois-star and promising, young NBA player decided to leave the Utah Jazz in favor of Turkish club Galatasaray. Dee Brown, a bench player last season, says it’s only temporary and hopes to catch on with another NBA club next year.

Sure Webber declined the offer from Greece, and Kirilenko is in the same NBA jersey despite his threats, as is Charlie Bell. I also believe that Pavlovic and Varejao are likely to sign with the Cavs, it’s just a matter of when. Americans will forget the loss of Spanoulis and Jasikevicius, but the soft line has been drawn this past off-season. What was unthinkable 6-7 years ago has become status quo. The next natural move is for more and more players to not just threaten to leave the NBA, but to leave the NBA for the leagues in Europe.

It’s no secret that the NBA wants a global league. The NBA has seen this coming for somee time now and has been smart enough to realize that if they don’t stake their claims overseas right now while the NBA still has a virtual monopoly of talent, that with each passing season the world gets better. And the balance tips a little more out of the NBA’s favor.

On paper, one huge world league would be ideal. I’m all for it, but it’s just not going to happen.

Besides the obvious logistical issues, I just don’t see one big world league ever coming together, but it won’t be for the lack of trying by Stern and the NBA. The NBA may be successful in convincing 2-3 teams to participate in a NBA global expansion, but what’s more realistic are the continued development of two super-leagues (a la the NBA and ABA in the 1970s) competing for the world’s best basketball talent.

Those two leagues will be the NBA and the Euroleague (ULEB).

Basketball is constantly changing in favor of the world. Look at what has happened the last five years; that’s what happens when something becomes popular. There may be a child born in Sudan, India or Slovenia this very minute and in 16-17 years, there may be scouts from two clubs from two separate leagues, both offering the same amount of money, fame, and competition.

No doubt the NBA has the upper-hand, it’s a huge locomotive with great history, reputation, and deep pockets as momentum. However, as salary levels get closer to one another and the talent gap continues to get smaller season after season, you’ll see the Euroleague competing for players more and more. We’re getting a good whiff of it this off-season.

There were definitely more words than action this off-season, but I bet David Stern has a folder somewhere noting the small waves that have occurred. He knows that an exodus of both international and American-born NBA players is bound to happen in future off-seasons (and certainly during an NBA strike). On the surface, he is playing ambassador trying to spread NBA goodwill, but behind close doors Stern is working on a plan to somehow prevent the eventual loss of NBA players.

It would be ironic if the globalization that Stern and the NBA has been promoting the last decade or so is the cause of an eventual exodus from the NBA that would even the playing ground and challenge the NBA’s dominance on every front.

(By the way, this was written before Kenny Smith’s column on international expansion, I just hadn’t posted it. You can find a rough draft in our forum)

Sasha Pavlovic, the guard-forward who had a breakout year last season with the Cleveland Cavaliers, will head back to Europe if he and the Cavs do not come to an agreement.

If Pavlovic leaves the NBA, he would join Greek star Vasillis Spanoulis back in Europe. Spanoulis was released by the San Antonio Spurs and will return this year to play for Panathinaikos BC of the Greek Basketball League.

Related Thread: Sasha Pavlovic set to Return to Europe?