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  • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
    See the difference sir Nards: our 2009 RP team coached by Yeng Guiao was easily humiliated by Jordan (we lost by a big 31 pt. margin) in the 2009 Jones Cup. Jordan repeated over the Philippines in the 2009 FIBA-Asia Men's Championship, winning by 11 pts. Smart Gilas on the other hand beat the very same Jordan team in the 2010 Stankovic Cup, and in the elimination round of the 2011 FIBA-Asia Men's Chmapionship. Jordan beat Gilas in 2011 Jones Cup & in the very important semi-final game in 2011 FIBA-Asia. Didn't Gilas fare better vs. Jordan than the Yeng-Guiao-mentored Powerade-RP team in 2009?

    And judging from Jordan coach Mario Palma's statements, it seemed Palma sees more potential w/ the Rajko Toroman-mentored Smart Gilas team than the Yeng Guiao-mentored Powerade-RP team w/c Jordan easily beat twice in 2009.

    Let's ponder on these statements by Palma:

    "The Philippines can be great in the world but for what I see, if they (Filipinos) play for spectators and not play to win games, it will be very difficult. When you go to international tournament and you have only talent then it will be difficult for the since other teams have also talent but more effort."

    "I think the Philippines has very much talent than us but they lost to us (Jordan). Why Because we are better organized in terms of defense. It's a team game,"

    "They are really good, they have talented players but in the end, you cannot win like this in my opinion and coach Rajko will change this. So I think it's a very different team it will not be the same team that I saw before."

    ahhhh...
    is that so?!?..
    hmmm....
    i wonder where is TOROMAN right now?
    i believe he was axed? does he?
    so where is that "very different team now?"

    Comment


    • What's the big deal about Toroman and Palma in this thread? Amateur coaches who are as good or better than them are dime a dozen in the USA. One of these coaches, Jacobs, delivered results even better than Toroman's. An amateur coach from Florida State Seminoles, North Carolina Tar Heels or Duke Blue Devils would likely produce even better results for the Pinoy national teams -- these coaches tend to be far fiercer and more pattern- and work-oriented than NBA coaches -- than the named coaches based on the recent consistent good quality ball produced by these schools.

      Did I forgot to say that the present successful coaches of the USA NBA players for the Olympics are still associated more with amateur ball than pro ball?

      In fairness to Pinoys, none of the three teams mentioned are small, and are easily coachable like all college-level teams. The Seminoles, which upset the favored North Carolina in the ACC, now has a 15-man team that has the size, three-point shooting and quickness that can crush the current Chinese national team. Oddly, Duke has three Plumlee brothers who are all forwards standing 6'10"-6'11". North Carolina doesn't even have a center (half of 16 players are forwards); but their forwards are some of the smoothest and coolest playing ones for the NCAA.
      Last edited by dtfernando; 03-13-2012, 09:13 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by dtfernando View Post
        What's the big deal about Toroman and Palma in this thread? Amateur coaches who are as good or better than them are dime a dozen in the USA. One of these coaches, Jacobs, delivered results even better than Toroman's. An amateur coach from Florida State Seminoles, North Carolina Tar Heels or Duke Blue Devils would likely produce even better results for the Pinoy national teams -- these coaches tend to be far fiercer and more pattern- and work-oriented than NBA coaches -- than the named coaches based on the recent consistent good quality ball produced by these schools.

        Did I forgot to say that the present successful coaches of the USA NBA players for the Olympics are still associated more with amateur ball than pro ball?

        The Seminoles, which upset the favored North Carolina in the ACC, now has a 15-man team that has the size, three-point shooting and quickness that will easily crush the current Chinese national team. Duke even has three Plumlee brothers who are all forwards standing over 6'10".
        i think they just tried the euro-style of basketball just to incorporate teamplays and execution even with a small team.
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        • Originally posted by acklium View Post
          i think they just tried the euro-style of basketball just to incorporate teamplays and execution even with a small team.
          We will tend to lose for as long as we send too-small teams to fight too-big teams in the internationals. Small teams tire faster and have greater difficulty in easy shooting than big teams even if they have the same level of athleticism; the same results when you have welterweights trying to go even with heavyweights.

          Comment




          • Don't do it, Chot.
            If there is no basketball in heaven, i am NOT going.

            SMALLBALL, bitches..

            Comment


            • Originally posted by acklium View Post
              i think they just tried the euro-style of basketball just to incorporate teamplays and execution even with a small team.
              It's not about Euro ball either. We simply kept sending welterweight teams against heavyweights. As in boxing, the results are highly predictable. Bigger and stronger players score easily and tire slower than much smaller players even if their athleticism is comparable. Euro-style basketball also requires the teams not to be as severely undersized like our national teams. We form a national team with reliable scorers and far stronger and bigger frontliners and you will see that our local basketball is not something to sneeze at.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
                yeah, he is a good prospect for future RP team. Then, if he's enrolled to schools like Ateneo or San Beda or University of Cebu , said schools would prohibit him from joining the national team! He might become like a Junmar Fajardo who, in an shameful act of selfishness & unpatriotism, was prohibited by University of Cebu from joining the National team. Look at how mediocre Fajardo's performance is playing for San Miguel team in the ABL. That I guess is the affect of getting used to low-level competition in CESAFI where Fajardo was pitted against much much shorter defenders. Fajardo would have utilized his full potential being exposed to higher level of basketball had he been allowed by his school to join the Smart Gilas program as early as 2009.

                The same fate awaits Jimmy Galen if his handlers aren't cautious and smart enough to harness & nurture Galen's potential. There are so many "vultures" out there lurking so Galen & his handlers must better watch out!
                100% agree. shame on ateneo and san beda for not releasing the likes of kiefer, greg, salva, monfort, pascual, lanete, and marcelo to the national team. damn greedy schools.


                duh.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by dtfernando View Post
                  It's not about Euro ball either. We simply kept sending welterweight teams against heavyweights. As in boxing, the results are highly predictable. Bigger and stronger players score easily and tire slower than much smaller players even if their athleticism is comparable. Euro-style basketball also requires the teams not to be as severely undersized like our national teams. We form a national team with reliable scorers and far stronger and bigger frontliners and you will see that our local basketball is not something to sneeze at.
                  and with that experiment do you think they failed? on that subject
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                  • Originally posted by dtfernando View Post
                    It's not about Euro ball either. We simply kept sending welterweight teams against heavyweights. As in boxing, the results are highly predictable. Bigger and stronger players score easily and tire slower than much smaller players even if their athleticism is comparable. Euro-style basketball also requires the teams not to be as severely undersized like our national teams. We form a national team with reliable scorers and far stronger and bigger frontliners and you will see that our local basketball is not something to sneeze at.
                    and with that experiment do you think they failed? on that subject
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                    • Jordan coach: RP can be great again
                      June 25, 2010 By JONAS TERRADO

                      Jordan national team coach Mario Palma believes the Philippines can be a powerhouse team in Asia if it plays the right way - no fancy moves and play tough and honest defense.

                      Palma, a Portuguese national who guided the Jordanese to their first-ever stint in the FIBA World Championship in Turkey this August, thinks that with Rajko Toroman coaching the Smart Gilas-RP team, the culture of Philippine basketball is in for a big change.

                      "I haven't coach against this team (Smart-Gilas) but I heard it's a pretty good team," said Palma.

                      "I don't know about the team but I have an idea about how coach Rajko is doing with this squad."

                      This marks the first time that Palma will be playing against the Smart-Gilas team although he's no longer stranger to the Filipinos' brand of play, having played against the PBA-backed RP team in 2007 and 2007.

                      Jordan won in both occasions that undermined its status as one of the fast emerging powers in Asia.

                      Palma acknowledges the country's very rich crop of talent but said the Philippines can't achieve its goal playing back in the Olympics if the Filipinos won't play as a team. "You see, basketball is a team game. Offense sells tickets but defense wins games," said Palma.

                      "The Philippines can be great in the world but for what I see, if they (Filipinos) play for spectators and not play to win games, it will be very difficult. When you go to international tournament and you have only talent then it will be difficult for the since other teams have also talent but more effort."

                      "I think the Philippines has very much talent than us but they lost to us (Jordan). Why Because we are better organized in terms of defense. It's a team game," he added.

                      "They are really good, they have talented players but in the end, you cannot win like this in my opinion and coach Rajko will change this. So I think it's a very different team it will not be the same team that I saw before." he added.

                      Barangay Ginebra team manager Samboy Lim, who was one of the key components of the fabled Northern Consolidated squad of American mentor Ron Jacobs, agreed with Palma, saying during their time, they also prepared for two to three years before they realized their talent as a team.

                      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      What do U think Mario Palma was trying to drive-out in making those statements? Wasn't Palma trying to tell us that Philippine basketball's free-wheeling & individualistic style of game would never work in international competitions and that certain changes as far as our approach of the game must be made?

                      When Rajko Toroman was hired as head coach of Smart Gilas program, among the objectives of the program was to teach the Filipino players how to play the international style of basketball. Like Palma, Toroman believes that Filipino players have the individual talent & that Philippine basketball has a greater depth of talent than most countries in Asia. Toroman however believed that Filipinos lacked the "tactical skills" essential in the international game. It is for this reason that the Smart Gilas program was founded - to teach & train our promising amateur cagers the techniques & tactics of the international game. It is for this reason why Toroman believed that the amateur players of Gilas, as young & raw as they were, will be more competitive than the more talented & more matured PBA-select national teams. While amateur players were inferior than their PBA counterparts in terms of individual talent, learning the techniques & tactics of the international game from a veteran international coach, combined w/ cohesion & the experience playing in international meets will more than compensate for whatever deficiencies in individual talents & maturity these amateurs had.

                      With the Gilas program, Toroman has put emphasis on passing, team defense, ball movement & movement w/o the ball & playing under a structured system. Players were made to realize that superiority in individual talent & line-up depth don't count in international basketball as much as teamwork & cohesion do.

                      In terms of individual talent, Smart Gilas cagers (w/ the exception of Marcus Douthit), were no match against their PBA counterparts. PBA superstars are obviously more refined, more polished, & more matured compared to the amateur cagers of Gilas. Chris Tiu would be no match going one on one w/ James Yap or Mark Caguioa. Jimmy Alapag will easily outsmart Jayvee Casio. Kerby Raymundo, be4 he got injured, would easily outplay a Mac Barracael. Yet facts will tell us that Smart Gilas team fared better in international tournaments than the PBA-select national teams in 2007 & 2009.

                      Toroman was in the process of revolutionizing Philippine basketball - transforming it from an individualistic free-wheeling style to a teamwork oriented & structured system concept. It was unfortunate that Toroman had to go & be replaced by a PBA coach. Just when our players were starting to master the international game through a foreign coach, we kicked that foreign coach's ass & replaced him w/ a PBA coach whose basketball orientation isn't really geared towards the international game. It seems to me, we are going in circles instead of making some progress.

                      Let's take those words from a proven "winner" like Mario Palma who knows his basketball much better than anyone of us in this forum. We have to remember, those words were coming from a "neutral" individual. I wonder what Palma would be saying if informed that Smart Gilas under Toroman finished 4th in last year's FIBA-Asia, yet we kicked Torman's ass & replaced him w/ a local coach simply becoz Toroman failed to accomplish his mission. Perhaps Palma would only be shaking his head as if to say "Filipinos have never learned their lessons"
                      "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by durden_tyler View Post


                        Don't do it, Chot.
                        Oh, no LOL...
                        Philippine Malditas to FIFA Womens World Cup 2023

                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by JAMSKIE View Post
                          Jordan coach: RP can be great again
                          June 25, 2010 By JONAS TERRADO

                          Jordan national team coach Mario Palma believes the Philippines can be a powerhouse team in Asia if it plays the right way - no fancy moves and play tough and honest defense.

                          Palma, a Portuguese national who guided the Jordanese to their first-ever stint in the FIBA World Championship in Turkey this August, thinks that with Rajko Toroman coaching the Smart Gilas-RP team, the culture of Philippine basketball is in for a big change.

                          "I haven't coach against this team (Smart-Gilas) but I heard it's a pretty good team," said Palma.

                          "I don't know about the team but I have an idea about how coach Rajko is doing with this squad."

                          This marks the first time that Palma will be playing against the Smart-Gilas team although he's no longer stranger to the Filipinos' brand of play, having played against the PBA-backed RP team in 2007 and 2007.

                          Jordan won in both occasions that undermined its status as one of the fast emerging powers in Asia.

                          Palma acknowledges the country's very rich crop of talent but said the Philippines can't achieve its goal playing back in the Olympics if the Filipinos won't play as a team. "You see, basketball is a team game. Offense sells tickets but defense wins games," said Palma.

                          "The Philippines can be great in the world but for what I see, if they (Filipinos) play for spectators and not play to win games, it will be very difficult. When you go to international tournament and you have only talent then it will be difficult for the since other teams have also talent but more effort."

                          "I think the Philippines has very much talent than us but they lost to us (Jordan). Why Because we are better organized in terms of defense. It's a team game," he added.

                          "They are really good, they have talented players but in the end, you cannot win like this in my opinion and coach Rajko will change this. So I think it's a very different team it will not be the same team that I saw before." he added.

                          Barangay Ginebra team manager Samboy Lim, who was one of the key components of the fabled Northern Consolidated squad of American mentor Ron Jacobs, agreed with Palma, saying during their time, they also prepared for two to three years before they realized their talent as a team.

                          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                          What do U think Mario Palma was trying to drive-out in making those statements? Wasn't Palma trying to tell us that Philippine basketball's free-wheeling & individualistic style of game would never work in international competitions and that certain changes as far as our approach of the game must be made?

                          When Rajko Toroman was hired as head coach of Smart Gilas program, among the objectives of the program was to teach the Filipino players how to play the international style of basketball. Like Palma, Toroman believes that Filipino players have the individual talent & that Philippine basketball has a greater depth of talent than most countries in Asia. Toroman however believed that Filipinos lacked the "tactical skills" essential in the international game. It is for this reason that the Smart Gilas program was founded - to teach & train our promising amateur cagers the techniques & tactics of the international game. It is for this reason why Toroman believed that the amateur players of Gilas, as young & raw as they were, will be more competitive than the more talented & more matured PBA-select national teams. While amateur players were inferior than their PBA counterparts in terms of individual talent, learning the techniques & tactics of the international game from a veteran international coach, combined w/ cohesion & the experience playing in international meets will more than compensate for whatever deficiencies in individual talents & maturity these amateurs had.

                          With the Gilas program, Toroman has put emphasis on passing, team defense, ball movement & movement w/o the ball & playing under a structured system. Players were made to realize that superiority in individual talent & line-up depth don't count in international basketball as much as teamwork & cohesion do.

                          In terms of individual talent, Smart Gilas cagers (w/ the exception of Marcus Douthit), were no match against their PBA counterparts. PBA superstars are obviously more refined, more polished, & more matured compared to the amateur cagers of Gilas. Chris Tiu would be no match going one on one w/ James Yap or Mark Caguioa. Jimmy Alapag will easily outsmart Jayvee Casio. Kerby Raymundo, be4 he got injured, would easily outplay a Mac Barracael. Yet facts will tell us that Smart Gilas team fared better in international tournaments than the PBA-select national teams in 2007 & 2009.

                          Toroman was in the process of revolutionizing Philippine basketball - transforming it from an individualistic free-wheeling style to a teamwork oriented & structured system concept. It was unfortunate that Toroman had to go & be replaced by a PBA coach. Just when our players were starting to master the international game through a foreign coach, we kicked that foreign coach's ass & replaced him w/ a PBA coach whose basketball orientation isn't really geared towards the international game. It seems to me, we are going in circles instead of making some progress.

                          Let's take those words from a proven "winner" like Mario Palma who knows his basketball much better than anyone of us in this forum. We have to remember, those words were coming from a "neutral" individual. I wonder what Palma would be saying if informed that Smart Gilas under Toroman finished 4th in last year's FIBA-Asia, yet we kicked Torman's ass & replaced him w/ a local coach simply becoz Toroman failed to accomplish his mission. Perhaps Palma would only be shaking his head as if to say "Filipinos have never learned their lessons"
                          Unfortunately, Palma's opinion does not matter to MVP. Chot's opinion meanwhile...

                          And oh, Toroman is currently revolutionizing SMC's basketball. If you get my drift...
                          If there is no basketball in heaven, i am NOT going.

                          SMALLBALL, bitches..

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by dtfernando View Post
                            What's the big deal about Toroman and Palma in this thread? Amateur coaches who are as good or better than them are dime a dozen in the USA. One of these coaches, Jacobs, delivered results even better than Toroman's. An amateur coach from Florida State Seminoles, North Carolina Tar Heels or Duke Blue Devils would likely produce even better results for the Pinoy national teams -- these coaches tend to be far fiercer and more pattern- and work-oriented than NBA coaches -- than the named coaches based on the recent consistent good quality ball produced by these schools.

                            Did I forgot to say that the present successful coaches of the USA NBA players for the Olympics are still associated more with amateur ball than pro ball?

                            In fairness to Pinoys, none of the three teams mentioned are small, and are easily coachable like all college-level teams. The Seminoles, which upset the favored North Carolina in the ACC, now has a 15-man team that has the size, three-point shooting and quickness that can crush the current Chinese national team. Oddly, Duke has three Plumlee brothers who are all forwards standing 6'10"-6'11". North Carolina doesn't even have a center (half of 16 players are forwards); but their forwards are some of the smoothest and coolest playing ones for the NCAA.
                            What's the big deal about Palma & Toroman in this thread? They understand basketball much much more than anyone else in this thread. That's the reason why their opinions weigh a lot more than ours.

                            "Did I forgot to say that the present successful coaches of the USA NBA players for the Olympics are still associated more with amateur ball than pro ball?"

                            I'm very much aware of that. Wasn't coach "K" who led team USA to the gold medal podiums in the 2008 Beijing Olympics & 2010 World Basketball Championship an amateur coach handling Duke University? Why do U think USA Basketball decided to hire an amateur coach to handle the USA "Redeem" team instead of simply picking an NBA coach? Simply becoz NBA coaches had difficulty adjusting to FIBA rules in international game as evident of the dismal performances of NBA-select USA teams in the 2002 World Basketball Championship (6th place) & the 2004 Athens Olympics (3rd place).

                            The Americans shifted to an amateur coach to handle their national team. They realized that the dissimilarity of style of NBA basketball from international basketball makes it difficult for NBA coaches to adjust to FIBA rules. In our part, it has also been a proven fact that PBA style is different from the FIBA style. Wouldn't also be prudent that we do away w/ PBA coaches handling our national team & stick w/ a foreign coach who has vast experience in international basketball?
                            "A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power, when you stand before God, you cannot say, 'But I was told by others to do thus,' or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice." - King Baldwin IV

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Silent Killer View Post
                              Oh, no LOL...
                              chot fans: "but he is a legit nba starter" .... "he gets double double in the nba no one can stop him in asia"

                              Darling it's better
                              Down where it's wetter
                              Take it from me.

                              - Sebastian, The Little Mermaid

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by durden_tyler View Post


                                Don't do it, Chot.
                                Hahaha. Come on now DT. He's only 23 years old and he actually works and plays hard, even though he does some "stupid" things on the court. If he played on a team that had more veterans, he'd definitely play better and not have as many bone headed plays. For someone as young as him, playing on a team like the Washington "Black Hole" Wizards won't do well in his development. I actually feel for John Wall as he can't do anything when he's on such a bad team. The Wizards are talented, but their players are just too selfish (e.g. Nick Young, Jordan Crawford). I'm willing to give McGee time to develop even further. He's still young. In the meantime, we still have Douthit for the immediate future so I suggest we focus on getting him to resign with Gilas. :P
                                Credit goes to CKR13 for this! Thanks so much!

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