View Poll Results: Do you agree with FIBA?

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  • Only about tactical fouls

    4 16.67%
  • Only about flopping

    16 66.67%
  • NO

    5 20.83%
  • La Monica sucks, Bertomeu sucks

    11 45.83%
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Thread: FIBA Europe attacks tactical fouls and flopping

  1. #21
    Senior Member Trifilli's Avatar
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    These rules are not new. I guess that FIBA just adresses it, because they want to see them enforced in a stricter way.

    There are some problems around this though. First of all the flopping rule. I guess that most of us agree with it on the first view, flopping should be punished. But then again you learn in every first officiating course that you should only make a call, when you're sure about it. Now a good flopper will make you have your doubts in many cases, believe me. So you either call a technical when you're not sure about it, risking that you're punishing somebody who indeed fell down because of contact, or you don't take that call. Many refs I've seen last season solved this the following way: Let the suspicious flopper run his show 2-3 times early in the game, then call a technical on him, and then don't take the call again, especially not in the crunchtime. This solution is a serious problem for the rule that you should always use the same criteria throughout a game (I know, it's often the same with 3sec violations, etc.). Therefore many refs simply didn't take the call at all. Forcing them to do so now might lead to a lot of unfair decisions, maybe even to games being decided because of this, if the situation occurs in game-critical moments.
    So my opinion on this is: punish floppers when you're really sure that they fake a foul, but don't force refs to call something they are not sure about. There's also still the possibility of the classical no-call, if you're not sure that a contact qualified for an offensive foul for example.

    As for the tactical fouls: this gives an additional task to the ref in the final minutes of a close game: to decide whether a foul was a tactical foul or not. Imho this is completely unnecessary. The criteria for what is going to be called as a (unsportsmanlike) foul and what not, should be the same in the 1st and in the 40th minute of a game. There are already enough definitions and interpretations by FIBA what is considered an unsportsmanlike foul, and these should be used for the decisive phase of a game as well (or for fastbreaks btw). Punish players who simply foul without having a chance to play the ball, but don't punish somebody because you assume that he committed a tactical foul. Two of those definitions are:
    Quote Originally Posted by FIBA
    If a player is making no effort to play the ball and contact occurs, it is an unsportsmanlike foul.
    And:
    Quote Originally Posted by FIBA
    If a player comits a foul while making a legitimate effort to play the ball (normal play), it is not an unsportsmanlike foul.
    So if FIBA wants the ref to call all tactical fouls in the final minutes of a game, then - excluding situations where it is obvious that the player made no effort to play the ball - the ref has to decide whether somebody made a legitimate effort to play the ball, or if the player wanted to comit a tactical foul to stop the clock. A really difficult decision if you ask me. Let me give you an example from my personal experience:

    Last season my team played an abroad game, with us being down by 3 with little time left. We stole the ball and scored on a layup to bring the score to -1 with 13 seconds left. The opponents coach called for time, leading to an inbound situation at the centre of the court after the timeout. During the timeout our coach asked us to go for the steal rightaway at the inbound situation, with an agressive man-man defense, and to stop the clock if we can't steal the ball. Now after the timeout the opponent set up a line play. As all other passing lanes were closed by us the opponent tried to play the ball to their guy who cutted into the backcourt, one of our players went for the steal, hitting both the ball and the arm of the player. The ref immediately called an unsportsmanlike foul, because he assumed that it was a tactical foul. We complained big time about this and he told us that he'd call another unsportsmanlike if we would try to stop the clock again (something we didn't even do in this situation), so the game was over and the opponent could play down the clock after the two FTs, no drama, no last second turnaround of the game.

    This is something I absolutely do not want to see. I want drama, I want to see matches where a player missed an FT with seconds to go and with the opponent punishing this by hitting a buzzer for the win on the other side. I do not want to see a close game being decided when the last 24 secs begin. And I fear that this will be the case in many games, when the ref has to assume whether a foul was a tactical foul or a try to gain possession again, even if it is a top Euroleague ref and not a very mediocre one, like the one in my example.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by re5pectas
    Tactical fouls are good!!! I really really don't want to loose them!!!
    They give so much passion!
    Yep, and that's why basketball is a lot more interesting than other sports because it's a game that demands a lot of tactical knowledge and the winner remains unknown, even when you're down by 10 in the last minute. This situations make this game beatiful.

    Tottaly agreed on the flopping T.

  3. #23

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    Imho, to forbid tactical fouls is nonsense. How those fouls shoud be identified? I think this rule would give to much power for refs. Refs are doing too much influence for games already and this would let to control the game completly, acording to refs' subjectivity. and yes, the games would become very predictable or very "crazy". I believe in Greece, Serbia and Lithuania there would be a long raw of suspended games

  4. #24
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    Well, Matiz, you can help me here. In today's Adriatic league game Olimpija vs Cibona there were quite some tactical fouls at the end, but nothing extra was called. It was just like in the old days.


    Let's wait for the EL games.

  5. #25
    Senior Member re5pectas's Avatar
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    Damn! Refs started to do it!!!
    at least i saw a foul to PAO and a foul to Zalgiris, and we didin'd had anymore chances at the end, then it was -4, refs just gaved an unsportableblabla foul and made fatality... no passionable ending was allowed!
    Damn!!!
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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by re5pectas
    Damn! Refs started to do it!!!
    at least i saw a foul to PAO and a foul to Zalgiris, and we didin'd had anymore chances at the end, then it was -4, refs just gaved an unsportableblabla foul and made fatality... no passionable ending was allowed!
    Damn!!!
    yeas, that's true. i realy don't understand that, they are destroying the basketball. and i think that these rules shoud be particulary defined.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Neozyrus's Avatar
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    There was another one in TAU's game, and yes in practica, this is nonsense. The emotion , the tactics, fan's behaviour just go away with one whistle of the referee. If it is not a clear flagrant foul, this rule seems to be really unfair and even against spectacle.
    I KISS BASKET

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