Who is the greatest European player ever?

[Straight forward]

Here's my 12 of all time ;

Guards : Parker - Saras
Forwards : Petrovic - Bodiroga - Stojakovic - Hedo - Kukoc - Nowitzki - Mehmet Okur
Centers : Sabonis - P.Gasol - Divac

That's what I call bias thinkings Nothing wrong with that, but I just wanted objective effort (off course purely objective view is also non-existant thing, but still). Saras, with all the love, was 8pts, 3assists player in the NBA and you like it or not that's the strongest league in the world. I picked Goran Dragic because he is the guy who can average 20pts for basically PO calibre NBA team. I'm not sure which other European PG could do that other than Parker, so I picked him. Now Bodiroga is good, but he never played in NBA. I don't think he's as good as my mentioned small forwards, Hedo as well. I think 4th best SF is Kirilenko, Mehmet Okur shouldn't be there also, IMO.

[Tevfik1907]

That's what I call bias thinkings Nothing wrong with that, but I just wanted objective effort (off course purely objective view is also non-existant thing, but still). Saras, with all the love, was 8pts, 3assists player in the NBA and you like it or not that's the strongest league in the world. I picked Goran Dragic because he is the guy who can average 20pts for basically PO calibre NBA team. I'm not sure which other European PG could do that other than Parker, so I picked him. Now Bodiroga is good, but he never played in NBA. I don't think he's as good as my mentioned small forwards, Hedo as well. I think 4th best SF is Kirilenko, Mehmet Okur shouldn't be there also, IMO.

Players like Jasikevicius, Papaloukas or Bodiroga couldn't adapt to NBA basketball, but that doesn't mean they can't perform well against the USA national teams or the NBA teams, they already did. They were doing the same things against them with no difficulty.
As for Hedo, he carried his team Orlando to the NBA finals and he won the MIP award there.
Okur is the same, he carried his team Utah in the NBA play-offs many times and he has been chosen as an NBA all-star.

[usagre]

Gasol is better in Europe Nowitzki is better in NBA Style.

I completely disagree. If you put Pau on the German teams he's not winning much either. Now put Dirk on the Spanish teams and I think they'll win just as much if not more. Similarly if you put Nowitzki on those Laker teams with Kobe I think they are even stronger. And finally if you put Pau on Dallas they never win a title and get to another NBA finals like they did with Dirk. Nowitzki over Gasol in just about every way in my opinion.

[usagre]

Players like Jasikevicius, Papaloukas or Bodiroga couldn't adapt to NBA basketball, but that doesn't mean they can't perform well against the USA national teams or the NBA teams, they already did. They were doing the same things against them with no difficulty.

It is one thing to make blanket statements based on a handful of games like once or twice in an international competion and compare that to guys who made a living consistently doing it for years.

[usagre]

As for Hedo, he carried his team Orlando to the NBA finals and he won the MIP award there.

Dude are you serious ? Turkoglu carried his team to the finals ? On what planet ? Dwight Howard was the key player on that team by a mile. Turkoglu was the third leading scorer on that team in the regular season and playoffs. He was the second best player ahead of Lewis in my opinion on the team but please a little reality check is in order.

What in the world is the Mip award ? Is that the most important Turkish player award ?

Okur carried the Jazz not Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer ?
I think Straight Forward was right, you're blinded by bias.

[Tevfik1907]

What in the world is the Mip award ? Is that the most important Turkish player award ?
.

Most Improved Player.

http://www.nba.com/news/hedo_mip_080428.html

Dude are you serious ? Turkoglu carried his team to the finals ? On what planet ? Dwight Howard was the key player on that team by a mile. Turkoglu was the third leading scorer on that team in the regular season and playoffs. He was the second best player ahead of Lewis in my opinion on the team but please a little reality check is in order.

Howard and Lewis were just the scorers, they were not using the tough shots and they were not setting the game right. Turkoglu was the leader of the team in both defense and offense.

Okur carried the Jazz not Deron Williams and Carlos Boozer ?
I think Straight Forward was right, you're blinded by bias.

Again, I never said they did it alone, they carried their teams, of course you needed the second and third men on the field, even Jordan had Pippen...

Okur was the Moneyman, he did all the tough shots and won the critical games.

[Straight forward]

Dude are you serious ? .

Who do you think is the best Euro SF of all time? Would it be Stojakovic, Detlef Schrempf, Kukoc, Kirilenko, other?

[usagre]

Who do you think is the best Euro SF of all time? Would it be Stojakovic, Detlef Schrempf, Kukoc, Kirilenko, other?

I think you nailed your entire 12 man team. I agree with all of it except I would probably swap out Navarro with Marc Gasol at the back end of the team. I would probably take Stojakovic because at his best he was an elite scorer in the NBA. Schrempf and Kukoc were similar do a little of everything players and Kirilenko was an elite defender but I would probably go with your order as well.

[usagre]

Howard and Lewis were just the scorers, they were not using the tough shots and they were not setting the game right. Turkoglu was the leader of the team in both defense and offense.


Okur was the Moneyman, he did all the tough shots and won the critical games.

Howard was a scorer ? Actually defensively is where he dominated back then. And to anyone in the world whose not Turkish, Okur was clearly the third best player on those Jazz teams after Williams and Boozer.

I am starting to think that Turkish television might have edited the games played when Turkoglu and Okur's teams played because your observations are ridiculous.

[Straight forward]

I think you nailed your entire 12 man team.

Would be very interesting to see Parker, Petrovic, Stojakovic, Nowitzki, Sabonis going against Magic, Jordan, Lebron, Duncan, Careem. Arguably best Euros 5 against best NBA pros 5. One thing for sure, Euro team would be so much more better shooting team

[usagre]

Would be very interesting to see Parker, Petrovic, Stojakovic, Nowitzki, Sabonis going against Magic, Jordan, Lebron, Duncan, Careem. Arguably best Euros 5 against best NBA pros 5. One thing for sure, Euro team would be so much more better shooting team

That American team would be too athletic and dominant defensively for the Euros. A better matchup would be against a less athletic American team.

Maybe

Stockton
Reggie Miller
Chris Mullin
Larry Bird
Kevin McHale

Less athletic and defensive ability but could match Euros in shooting.

[R1ou]

Giannis has potential to be the best Euro SF ever out there.

[usagre]

Giannis has potential to be the best Euro SF ever out there.

Forget that he has the potential to be the best Euro regardless of position ever.

[Tevfik1907]

Antetokounmpo has a great potential, but I don't think he can surpass Parker or Nowitzki.

I am starting to think that Turkish television might have edited the games played when Turkoglu and Okur's teams played because your observations are ridiculous.

I think you're seeing only what you want to see, both Hedo and Okur was the leading members of their teams like being one of the best out of 2 or 3, which is more than enough. As I said before, even Jordan had Pippen, Lebron had Wade+Bosh and then Kyrie Irving. I never said they did alone, I said they carried their team that doesn't mean doing it all alone.

[CoachZ]

When Speaking of SF, there is no dilemma that it is Stojakovic vs Kukoc debate. Giannis has a chance to surpass (and probably will if he improves his shooting) both, but as of now he is behind both of them. I think that in many cases Stojakovic was more prolific than Kukoc BUT I would always pick Kukoc as the best European SF of all time. Kukoc was a monster as a 18 year old, won 3 EL titles with Jugoplastika as the leading player, then took Benetton team to another EL final which he lost in a surprise defeat to Limoges.

He was an integral part of the Bulls dinasty. His numbers and legacy suffered due to his status in that superteam, if he was playing in another franchise he was able to be the lead guy easily and his numbers would be nearing Nowitzki/Gasol/Parker group. He also redefined the position, a multi-talented all around forward that can shoot, dribble, create, finish at the rim everything. Toni Kukoc is a beast, that unfortunately didn't get a chance to be a lead man in that NBA. In today's NBA he would've been a centerpiece on some franchise.