2017 jones cup

[barok espinoza]

if some of you are really that desperate to make the next generation of pinoys taller, then you should convince the government
to implement these strategies:

control the population from over-reproducing by passing
laws that will limit tax exemptions to two offspring only instead of four.
if pinoys want more than two children, then they will have to pay more taxes for it.

smart families who do not have more than two children will obviously have more
resources for healthier food and drink. thus, their children will generally be taller and healthier.

to discourage pinoys further from over-reproducing, give free public school education to the first two children only.
the parents should pay for the third one like they do in private schools. government must not be overly burdened
by the belief of pinoys that having many children is a blessing. this should also apply to single parents regardless of number of partner.

encourage migration by diversifying the economy. as an archipelago, most of our people have never gotten the opportunity to
leave the islands where they were born in. thus, the average height of the local populace in most of the islands
has remained stagnant for decades since they can only breed with one another.

revise the constitution and remove the prohibition on foreigners owning lands. true, foreigners can own condominium
units but that means they can only live in cities and not anywhere they like.

lastly, if you are that desperate, justify the practice of eugenics or genetic cleansing. vaccinate short and undersized kids
with cold vaccines that contain agents that cause infertility. this should be done secretly and under the guise of a national
flu vaccination program. only you, the consultants, and the government should know about this.

[interxavierxxx]

You are not pointing out the flaws but simply not knowing what you are saying. The post play have been a staple of Chot's offense, he does not run exclusively the DDO. Go back to the Korea game, he went to Myers down low. But what do you do when butterfingers don't deliver (more misses than makes) and can't hit his free throws when fouled? If you wanna go back earlier, refer to the SEA games. They dump the ball to Junmar down low and make him operate. Of course you didn't see that. Also, Chot runs 1-3-1 formation on offense which is not exclusive to DDO. You only think you know better than Chot and "see" his system's flaws, but rude awakening for you buddy, you "see" nothing. You're simply second guessing a coach thinking you know better.

Staple of Chot's offense? lol Funny because I barely saw it in today's and yesterday's game. Korea? Wrong. Dumping it to Myers down low is different from setting it up from a play. This is how Toroman's and other systems from all over do it. You set up the big man and feed it to him for an easy shot. The reason Blatche is in our team is because he can create his own shots; something our local big men and Douthit could not do effectively. Myers can do it but he is no Blatche. Dumping it to your big man and expecting him to finish against a tightly guarded low post is a 50-50 or less. Most big men are just as good as their point guards. Look at Creighton when Mo Watson got injured; Justin Patton's production lessened. I don't recall any of the guy's dunks coming from his shot creation. Same thing will happen to DeAndre and Blake with the departure of CP3 over the summer. SEA Games? You mean the tournament where the opposition has midget centers? Lol Where were those plays when we were up against Canada, Iraq, Lithuania and today? You take a few plays here and there when they rarely ever show up when they are needed the most. Oh yeah, guess who won the Korea game. As a matter of fact, I don't recall us ever setting up our big men for an easy shot as a bread and butter. If we did, it was very rare or only during put back situations. Wise up buddy, any team of Chot's or even Baldwin's have been living and dying from outside the arc and slashing. Our playbook needs an upgrade. Plain and simple.

As I have said, name me names. Who are those forwards we need to have in our team? Because you keep on complaining and criticizing without offering nothing solid, just motherhood statements.

Have you not read this?:

...Junemar, Japeth, Troy, and perhaps Almazan on the lineup. Keep KP, Parks, Ferrer, and Gabe on the wings.

Whine all you want about why they are not available. I think it's fair to say that our failure to secure their availability is already a preliminary sign of what is wrong with our NT system. Yap all you want about the PBA or NCAA this and that. Fact of the matter is that our present system is hindering our NT program's continuity, thus it is inefficient.

You want more names? Here are players who had size and could have been trained, developed, and exposed from the get-go:

Front-Court:
Almazan
Jay-R Reyes
AVO
Sanggalang
Jericho De Guzman
Samigue Eman
Ganuelas
Jason Ballesteros
Yousef Taha
Yancy De Ocampo
Rabeh Al-Hussani
Slaughter --> Where was he after 2010 Asian Games?
Rafi Reavis --> Before Hagop Rule
Joe De Vance --> Before Hagop Rule

Go ahead and laugh. Whine all you want about how these players are not good or skilled enough. Whose fault is that again? Go ahead and say height isn't the only thing. That they also need skills such as shooting, handling, and passing. Again, whose fault is that? Height is part of the big picture. You miss it. You are incomplete. So don't go crying that we didn't win the gold or we couldn't snatch a win or two in the world-level or we don't have a NBA caliber player or cough up behind we are too short. The fact of the matter is that we DID have players with size but we failed to develop them. The reverse is also true. We have a plethora of people who can play football but our NT is already struggling within the ASEAN region. Whose fault is that also? Unless they had serious health issues like Kelly Williams, then they are excused.

The other thing that worries is me that the core of this Jones Cup team is likely to represent us in the upcoming 2017 FIBA Asia Cup and--should any "behind-the-scenes" bullshit occur--the qualifying stages of the World Cup where we are grouped with Oz. Not to mention the fact that these events occur during the PBA season and it will be more difficult to get the right players.

You think your ideas are anything new? Look at Filipino modern day bigs. Do they look stiff to you? Lol Even Beau Belga can handle the basketball well. You can on harping on skills development but fails to see the transition the modern day Filipino ballers are slowly evolving into. As I've said, you only see what you wanna see, or worse, you just don't understand what you are looking at.

Whether or not my ideas are anything new are irrelevant. If they're not new, then our slow progress is a testament of our inefficient system and failure to transition from the old-style American position-based game to the more modern European way that NBA teams are slowly adapting to coupled with strong athleticism. You just embarrassed yourself by using Beau Belga as an example of "progress". Be appreciative but don't be complacent. Unless, you have low standards.

And why do you act as if I hate this team or want to bring it down? Just because I dwell on the negatives doesn't mean I don't want our team to succeed.

[interxavierxxx]

if some of you are really that desperate to make the next generation of pinoys taller, then you should convince the government
to implement these strategies:

control the population from over-reproducing by passing
laws that will limit tax exemptions to two offspring only instead of four.
if pinoys want more than two children, then they will have to pay more taxes for it.

smart families who do not have more than two children will obviously have more
resources for healthier food and drink. thus, their children will generally be taller and healthier.

to discourage pinoys further from over-reproducing, give free public school education to the first two children only.
the parents should pay for the third one like they do in private schools. government must not be overly burdened
by the belief of pinoys that having many children is a blessing. this should also apply to single parents regardless of number of partner.

encourage migration by diversifying the economy. as an archipelago, most of our people have never gotten the opportunity to
leave the islands where they were born in. thus, the average height of the local populace in most of the islands
has remained stagnant for decades since they can only breed with one another.

revise the constitution and remove the prohibition on foreigners owning lands. true, foreigners can own condominium
units but that means they can only live in cities and not anywhere they like.

lastly, if you are that desperate, justify the practice of eugenics or genetic cleansing. vaccinate short and undersized kids
with cold vaccines that contain agents that cause infertility. this should be done secretly and under the guise of a national
flu vaccination program. only you, the consultants, and the government should know about this.

Sounds like a good idea.

[trig]

you should run both SBP and PBA. oh wait thats unrealistic.

[interxavierxxx]

you should run both SBP and PBA. oh wait thats unrealistic.

Maybe you should limit free speech. Oh wait, that's unrealistic.

Opinions man. You don't like my opinion then that's you. I couldn't care less.

[NOiNU]

Staple of Chot's offense? lol Funny because I barely saw it in today's and yesterday's game. Korea? Wrong. Dumping it to Myers down low is different from setting it up from a play. This is how Toroman's and other systems from all over do it. You set up the big man and feed it to him for an easy shot. The reason Blatche is in our team is because he can create his own shots; something our local big men and Douthit could not do effectively. Myers can do it but he is no Blatche. Dumping it to your big man and expecting him to finish against a tightly guarded low post is a 50-50 or less. Most big men are just as good as their point guards. Look at Creighton when Mo Watson got injured; Justin Patton's production lessened. I don't recall any of the guy's dunks coming from his shot creation. Same thing will happen to DeAndre and Blake with the departure of CP3 over the summer. SEA Games? You mean the tournament where the opposition has midget centers? Lol Where were those plays when we were up against Canada, Iraq, Lithuania and today? You take a few plays here and there when they rarely ever show up when they are needed the most. Oh yeah, guess who won the Korea game. As a matter of fact, I don't recall us ever setting up our big men for an easy shot as a bread and butter. If we did, it was very rare or only during put back situations. Wise up buddy, any team of Chot's or even Baldwin's have been living and dying from outside the arc and slashing. Our playbook needs an upgrade. Plain and simple.



Have you not read this?:



Whine all you want about why they are not available. I think it's fair to say that our failure to secure their availability is already a preliminary sign of what is wrong with our NT system. Yap all you want about the PBA or NCAA this and that. Fact of the matter is that our present system is hindering our NT program's continuity, thus it is inefficient.

You want more names? Here are players who had size and could have been trained, developed, and exposed from the get-go:

Front-Court:
Almazan
Jay-R Reyes
AVO
Sanggalang
Jericho De Guzman
Samigue Eman
Ganuelas
Jason Ballesteros
Yousef Taha
Yancy De Ocampo
Rabeh Al-Hussani
Slaughter --> Where was he after 2010 Asian Games?
Rafi Reavis --> Before Hagop Rule
Joe De Vance --> Before Hagop Rule

Go ahead and laugh. Whine all you want about how these players are not good or skilled enough. Whose fault is that again? Go ahead and say height isn't the only thing. That they also need skills such as shooting, handling, and passing. Again, whose fault is that? Height is part of the big picture. You miss it. You are incomplete. So don't go crying that we didn't win the gold or we couldn't snatch a win or two in the world-level or we don't have a NBA caliber player or cough up behind we are too short. The fact of the matter is that we DID have players with size but we failed to develop them. The reverse is also true. We have a plethora of people who can play football but our NT is already struggling within the ASEAN region. Whose fault is that also? Unless they had serious health issues like Kelly Williams, then they are excused.

The other thing that worries is me that the core of this Jones Cup team is likely to represent us in the upcoming 2017 FIBA Asia Cup and--should any "behind-the-scenes" bullshit occur--the qualifying stages of the World Cup where we are grouped with Oz. Not to mention the fact that these events occur during the PBA season and it will be more difficult to get the right players.



Whether or not my ideas are anything new are irrelevant. If they're not new, then our slow progress is a testament of our inefficient system and failure to transition from the old-style American position-based game to the more modern European way that NBA teams are slowly adapting to coupled with strong athleticism. You just embarrassed yourself by using Beau Belga as an example of "progress". Be appreciative but don't be complacent. Unless, you have low standards.

And why do you act as if I hate this team or want to bring it down? Just because I dwell on the negatives doesn't mean I don't want our team to succeed.

Actually, you're the one who should feel embarassed for not understanding what you're reading. Does not surprise me at this point though. When i say in jest that EVEN Beau Belga handles the ball well, that's not anywhere close to saying he is the best example of progress, don't you think? EVEN him implies he is actually close to being a bottom dweller on the examples I could give regarding skilled bigs. Had i mentioned Troy, Belo, CBC, Ferrer et al, that'd been me playing captain obvious.

Pointing out we lost the Korea game is like shooting yourself on the foot. I chose that game for that exact reason, to illustrate that going to the post or involving the bigs more does not guarantee a win. And so what if the Sea games opposition were midgets? Isn't that the opportune chance to exploit your height advantage, play the percentages, and pounce it in the shaded area? It only validates your lack of knowledge of the game, looking for the low post plays against taller or more athletic opposition when your guys are butterfinger Myers and a make do center in CS that is not really an inside operator, and undermining a brilliant decision to go to Junmar and Blatche inside against SEA "midgets". Well it's a good thing you are not the coach, that'd been disastrous at the least.

Again, saying the bigs are not set up in Chot's system is a fallacy. How many times have you seen the guards penetrate the shaded area and then pass it to any bigs for a short stab or a dunk? How many times have you seen the team call a high screen? That's involving your big and making him an option just in case you didn't know. How many times have you seen them employ a 1-3-1 offense? The slotman is a principal option in that setup, in case you didn't know. Now if you have a different idea on setting up the bigs other than what they are doing now, then by all means, LET'S HEAR IT. You can't hide from overly generic motherhood statements all the time, show us what EXACTLY do you mean.

The bigs you mentioned are already in the NT pool, what is your beef then?

Off court issues are no bs, it is a valid concern. You strike me as a guy who never had to organize something or run a program in his life, because if you did, you would know it's not a rosy, perfect world out there. You should grow up and acknowledge the things that are part of this struggle called life. If the NT fails to secure the best players all the time, it is because it does not have the sole authority over all these players. WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU DOING TO FIX THIS, ASIDE FROM WHINING ABOUT IT IN THE FORUMS? At least people at the SBP are haggling and asking the PBA for their cooperation, which actually bear fruit by the PBA giving the Gilas vets a go for the FIBA Asia Cup.

You are criticizing just for the heck of it. Nagmamagaling. Walk the talk. Show us your trained (one you yourself trained) big guy that should be the epitome of a modern big. Tell us in basketball parlance how exactly we should set up our bigs. Give us your ingenious idea on how to fix the issues that are "hindering" our NT program's progress. The floor is yours.

[JAMSKIE]

You are undermining your own argument by saying the bolded part. Who do you have in mind in lieu of the small players? How sure are you they would not end up like what you have stated, ineffective? How sure are you they would do better than the players that we have now. Are they willing and available in the first place? I remember one time, we have fielded dillinger and norwood at the backcourt at the same time, we went real big (can't recall the tourney though) but guess what?

Which system are you a fan of? Toroman's? Baldwin's? Did we regain Asian supremacy using their system? Are we significantly better running those? If yes, where's the championship/s to back that up?

Getting bigger players in every position is not a guarantee we'd have a winning team. You get some you lose some. As we get bigger, we get slower. Case in point, CBC and Belo are having a hard time playing the SF slot, this despite FEU evidently training their bigs to play the perimeter. Now, if you insist on having these bigger guys play one position down but would still end up shorter than their counterparts in top international competition, isn't that counter productive? Now not only you have a shorter guy (not by much, thanks to an added inch or two) but you have a considerably slower guy as well.

I mean, what coach would't want to have taller players in his roster? But the thing is, players like Junmar Fajardo, Gabe Norwood, Matthew WrIght and Japeth Aguilar doesn't grow on trees. These players that have ideal size for their position (in Filipino context, relative to international norm) are rare, you just have to acknowledge that fact.

Right now, we have a bunch of incoming taller players, and SBP is doing its best to develop them. You need to be patient. It's not like we are not making any progress. You just need to take a look at our placings in int'l competition in recent history and you can see what you failed to see. You only see the negative side of things. If we are indeed making the same mistakes over and over, we wouldn't have made it to the World Cup and we'd still be busy competing for 7th-9th place in Asian competitions.

We lose to a better team and you assume there is something wrong with this and with that. How about some reality check, like realizing we simply are the inferior team. You think you know better than Chot? There's a reason why he's a multi-titled coach and you're not. I am not by any means a Chot Reyes apologist. I criticize him too, esp his being short-fused. But you see, animosity reaps animosity.

Well said bro.

The thing about Asian basketball, or Asia-Pacific basketball since we now have Australia & New Zealand to compete with, is that we have to deal with teams of different characteristics. Asian basketball or Asia-Pacific basketball is so diverse. Middle Eastern teams or Arab teams have tall and hefty players who play physical but they aren't as quick as the other Asian teams. East Asian teams on the other hand such as Korea, Japan & Taiwan may not be so tall but have the quickness, skills & outside shooting. China, on the other has always been a tall team, though not really that hefty & they're not as physical as most Arab teams. Australian & New Zealand players on the other hand are on the different level. They got it all: height, heft, skills, shooting, athleticism.

You're right in saying:"You get some you lose some. As we get bigger, we get slower"

For instance, we put Troy Rosario (who is a natural "stretch four") to the small forward spot to boost the ceiling at the wings. While Troy may be able to keep in step with the swingmen of lets say Jordanian or Lebanese teams (becoz they're not that quick), troy probably would not be able to keep in step with those speedy swingmen of Korea, Japan & Taiwan, who usually are excellent 3-pt. shooters.

Its really a balancing act. Coach Chot & his coaching staffs understand this.

[trig]

Troy could have been a 3 if he started playing the 3 at a young age. But for a typical pinoy, Troy most probably is the tallest person in school and baranggay his entire life. Then you factor in old school coaches that will say "ang laki laki mo bat nasa labas ka". That mentality is starting to change. Thats why you see 2nd gen paras, ildefonso playing as wings. 2nd gen ravena playing as pg. Game is evolving but it takes time.

Its easy to say watch youtube blablabla but you need to factor in a lot of things. Genes, talent, motivation, encouragement, coaches etc etc All of us here love basketball. But there's a reason why we're not in the PBA.

[reamily]

Troy could have been a 3 if he started playing the 3 at a young age. But for a typical pinoy, Troy most probably is the tallest person in school and baranggay his entire life. Then you factor in old school coaches that will say "ang laki laki mo bat nasa labas ka". That mentality is starting to change. Thats why you see 2nd gen paras, ildefonso playing as wings. 2nd gen ravena playing as pg. Game is evolving but it takes time.

Its easy to say watch youtube blablabla but you need to factor in a lot of things. Genes, talent, motivation, encouragement, coaches etc etc All of us here love basketball. But there's a reason why we're not in the PBA.

Di ngayon yun mentality is why tou play kobe 3.or. he is a 2 guard, why you play japeth at 5 and not 3 when he is most confortable..

[reamily]

All other asian elute teams are playing in atalas chaenge in china

[trig]

Di ngayon yun mentality is why tou play kobe 3.or. he is a 2 guard, why you play japeth at 5 and not 3 when he is most confortable..

1-5 is more of a skill level than position now. then factor in the need. We don't have a lot of bigs. From those players, not a lot of them can guard the perimeter, pnr etc. We saw team usa struggled and they fixed that temporarily by using Odom and Gay as bigs. You see gsw using Green and kd as frontline at times. Its a question of whether you can defend your man and can you take advantage of matchups.

[JAMSKIE]

Di ngayon yun mentality is why tou play kobe 3.or. he is a 2 guard, why you play japeth at 5 and not 3 when he is most confortable..

I don't think the 3 spot is Japeth's most comfortable position. I strongly disagree with you.

While Japeth has a decent perimeter shot, he doesn't have the handles to play the small forward position. Japeth, in my opinion, is a natural power forward.

[reamily]

I don't think the 3 spot is Japeth's most comfortable position. I strongly disagree with you.

While Japeth has a decent perimeter shot, he doesn't have the handles to play the small forward position. Japeth, in my opinion, is a natural power forward.

Yep but thats the fans say about him bacj then kd like daw hahah

[trig]

Yep but thats the fans say about him bacj then kd like daw hahah

He was one confuse kid. Never really had a clear direction. C at ateneo, PF at at WK. His father wants him to be kd, Toro wants him to be C. Tried to be SF in dleague, then back to C in ph.

[Juan Lun]

Yep but thats the fans say about him bacj then kd like daw hahah

he was being groomed to play the 3 spot back in the NBA D-League, sadly Japeth's BBIQ got in the way..