F4 2017 ISTANBUL- Is it safe?

[CoachZ]

OK. Move it to Belgrade. I bet my life nothing will happen. You can cut off my head ISIS style if it does.

[monopao]

Let's move it IF YOU CAN GUARANTEE that it will not happen in Athens, Belgrade, Paris, Moscow, Milan etc.
London, Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, New York, Oslo...
Fact is nowhere is safe when lunatics that are not afraid of killing themselves along with others, are roaming the world.

Noone can guarantee 100% safety for the fans. But some places are more safe than others. Istanbul and Turkey had many terrorist attacks in the last 2 years.

[janketa]

Istanbul is safe for F4 just like any other city in Europe.
But if we are talking about restaurants and discotheques, then everyone who come needs to calculate if it is smart to go or not.

[janketa]

i guess it was inevitable to side-step into islam discussion on this thread, the purpose of which is to discuss security risk of a particular event.

Islam is the newest religion between the three big religions that came out of middle east, and it's 1400 years old. That is pretty fucking old, for modern person, in this age, like all the others. No reasonable person today takes the claims of Bible or Quran seriously on natural phenomena, universe in general, or public laws. They are severely outdated and mostly plain wrong. Who still believes that the world is 6000 years old?

What happens is that faithful but reasonable people accommodate. They simply ignore parts of these books and follow it on a spiritual level. This is the case for Christians as far as i can observe, and it was the case for Islam when they made tremendous advancements on positive sciences, before the western civilization boomed. it is them who translated and passed even the ancient Greek writings to the western world. How could they do that? They kept an open-mind, they interpreted Quran humanely. and they did it more than a thousand years ago! members of the same religion. But then a strict sect of Islam took over, they disposed all free-thinkers and established their literal version of Islam as the only one. They practically closed the muslim mind. As I referred previously, the book "the closing of the muslim mind" explains this story quite well. Same religion, but completely different outcomes.

People in most of the world, especially the ones not in middle east, still followed their reasonable instincts and saw these rules only as guidelines. Turkey was an example of that. Religion was completely kept out of state-business and laws since 1923, its foundation. People had a loose interpretation of it in daily life. But within the last 10-15 years, the country has experienced a gradual and extremely intense brain-washing process. The social layers are deliberately separated. Erdogan's almost every speech is aimed to increase hate. He and his followers tried hard to close Turkish mind. and I'm afraid they're getting there. Now we have ISIS members from Turkey! A 22-year old policeman from a modern family killed a foreign ambassador in the name of islam! People got attacked in new years celebration and many people applauded this atrocity on social media! That's a huge swing in country's mental status.

Now we have a country with millions of potential radical militants. They're created, and it's becoming more dangerous every day. I have a very pessimistic view on my country's future.

As an ex-muslim who abandoned the religion years ago, I have serious issues with islam. It actually provides a dangerously convenient martyrdom scheme for those suicide bombers. But given the circumstances I'm sure this lunacy would still have happened if they had a spagetti religion.

I see you are pessimist regarding future and in long post you touched many serious and historical issues.
Just one thing you didn't mentioned to be honest at least.

Libya, you heard for that country and their leader Gadafi? Of course you did. You know what happened and who opened the door for apocalypse. Iraq Syria...
Similar things were prepared for Turkey. There is not black and white picture in this moment, situation is more complicated then saying Erdogan is guilty for everything. The biggest evil in modern age is terrorism and Turkey is the biggest victim now. But root of all are somewhere else.
We are paying the price now of some big heads mistakes and misjudgements. At the end they recognized that, but to late for milions that suffer.

[unnamed]

I see you are pessimist regarding future and in long post you touched many serious and historical issues.
Just one thing you didn't mentioned to be honest at least.

Libya, you heard for that country and their leader Gadafi? Of course you did. You know what happened and who opened the door for apocalypse. Iraq Syria...
Similar things were prepared for Turkey. There is not black and white picture in this moment, situation is more complicated then saying Erdogan is guilty for everything. The biggest evil in modern age is terrorism and Turkey is the biggest victim now. But root of all are somewhere else.
We are paying the price now of some big heads mistakes and misjudgements. At the end they recognized that, but to late for milions that suffer.

Arab spring (in Egypt) was basically aided by one European activist organization to get access on the dark net. One of the leaders of that organization bragged about it to the reporter who wrote it in a book and published it. I won't speak in details about it.

For me, it boils down to which leader is adequate for the establishment. If the regime is not welcomed you can bet there is going to be tensions. Religion in such instances is just a tool, because Muslims are deeply religious people. If it was something in Europe it would be probably something on the nationalistic basis.

[CoachZ]

Another shooting in Istanbul today??? Anybody have more info? This is getting ridiculous...

[vivo]

Another shooting in Istanbul today??? Anybody have more info? This is getting ridiculous...

I haven't seen/heard anything about it, I was at work though. What did you see?

[janketa]

Vengeance, not terrorism.

[CoachZ]

I haven't seen/heard anything about it, I was at work though. What did you see?

There was news about some guy entering a restaurant and opening fire. Killed 1 person, injured more. Didn't say the motives. I see Janketa already wrote about it.

I guess it's not better news per say that is not terrorism, but at least it's more comfortable to know that it wasn't some kind of organized attempt...

[Efesdxb]

There was news about some guy entering a restaurant and opening fire. Killed 1 person, injured more. Didn't say the motives. I see Janketa already wrote about it.

I guess it's not better news per say that is not terrorism, but at least it's more comfortable to know that it wasn't some kind of organized attempt...

The guy killed other one as he thought the guy is responsible about death of his father...