European prospects born 97'

[pohani komarac]

Ante Toni Zizic finished season in Croatia A1 league with 13.6 pts, 6.7rb, and 1,7bl. He itruduced him self to pro level with huge steps and if he continiue ike that we can expect him to become great player in short period of time.

[Joško Poljak Fan]

Mesiček highlights from this season

[christodoulou76]

Papagiannis went from #1 ranked pick at Eurohopes to #15 in one year. Yikes.

http://www.eurohopes.com/rankings/1997

[Levenspiel]

Enes Taskiran (SG) of Turkey truly impressed me during the current u18. He's not flashy but smart and clutch player, also a reliable scorer. Actually the most consistent player of our NT so far. He plays for Besiktas, so I expect Slice to come an write a piece on him.

[slice me nice]

Yeah Levenspiel, sure Well certainly he is a late bloomer. He was in the shades of Korkmaz and Arna in this generation. Slowly slowly he has started to leap himself to forward. He is a pure talent but mostly I like his mental toughness. A winner character that doesn't like to lose. All his expressions indicate this to us. Generally in this age group, many pure talents disappear mostly because of the mental immaturity but Taşkıran has enough sensitiveness for his career that I reckon from my experiences. If we talk for this tournament, he is way more efficient than Korkmaz. He has everything in his game and he is doing all those stuffs without being so flashy like you have said.

Beside his intangibles, I like his way of playing. He doesn't avoid physical contact in his penetrations, he drives towards the basket with full determination, that's why he gets a lot of hoop and harm from those drives. Really great penetrating player and his quick first step is a big advantage for his play. Generally passes his opponent with this way. There are few players in this generation who can guard him when he decides to play isolation for example. Reliable isolation player thanks to athleticism. We call him ''Mini Bo-McCalebb'' as Beşiktaş fans because he had showed some good examples from Bo during the last season. He impressed me a lot this season. Even though I find him shooting mechanism a little bit problematic, he is quite effective mid range shooter. I don't know how he is doing this thing but really effective especially in that range. As we see in this U18 tournament, he uses his shot when he finds an opportunity. He is the secret leader of team. He is a kind of combo guard and shows us his passing skills in this tournament. Not a fancy passer but definitely gives the right passes. For example we don't say ''There, there pass the ball there'', when the ball is in hands because I know he will find the right man. He is finding right man on his penetrations. Especially the agility and passing skill of Taşkıran is the biggest weapon of our team here. Btw, his athleticism doesn't consist of just agility and pace. He jumps great for a this type of player and thanks to this skill, he collects the rebounds from pool. I see the same specialty from the another guard Ömer Utku Al. These players have great feeling for rebounds even though they are guards. His defensive play targets the pressure on ball, and he minimizes the efficiency of opponent's guard. Quick hands, great possession knowledge in D (maybe the best one in our team). Beside his weak body, the other tools of his body are great. I mean he has wide wingspan and broad shoulders that lead him to steal the ball, if he can't, at least he disturbs the set game of opponent.

Naturally, he has some weaknesses. Dribbling and safety of ball are problematic here. He can't set the bounce highth of ball. That's why in some possessions, he is in hurry to start penetration instead of keeping the ball in his hands. He needs to improve his dribbling. He doesn't seem relax when the ball in his hands. He doesn't feel like a PG but he has to play as PG in this NT because of the wrong selection of coach. Maybe this experience will add some values to his game who knows. If he could have better ball handling skill, it would be much easier for him to be more creative. Also shoots from behind the arc is not so good. Not bad but if he wants to play in higher level, he should shoot threes day n night. Physical power is also another issue for him. He is thin but has great body. At least if he put weight on, he will have superb strong body. That will make him an explosive player since he likes too much driving towards the basket.

He will take some minutes this season under the coaching of Dettman. If he uses this opportunity well, we can see him as the key player of Beşiktaş and NT incoming years. He is all around player but should know his deficiencies to take actions. It is good for him to be not flashy since we have already seen some players turn into disappointing prospects mostly because of snob attitudes.

[slice me nice]

Vassilis Charalampopoulos. I don't know where to start actually. I am impressed a lot during the U-18 tournament. Both his way of playing on the floor and dedication to his team are type of things which are notable for a player at this age. He has urge for embracing his team that automatically makes him leader born player. I really like some names from Greek youth teams but Chara is the special one and last one who seems to fail in the future. As far as I can see, his mental toughness is enough for senior level. At least doesn't avoid taking responsibilities and knows his role in team. When Greeks need something, he takes the helm and set the course of game. With this determined character he is actually out of bounds of being loser. This is what teams need from a prospect. Determined character and self confidence. In previous tournament, it was obvious that he really enjoys this game much and leading his team through his mental and physical aspects. At the end he wore the gold medal to his neck which was the cream on the cake.

His biggest advantage is his strong body for this level. If he can manage to add more muscles for senior level, it will be so meaningless to discuss whether he is ready for senior level or not. He knows to use his body effectively. His slaloms with ball are quite effective and easily chop around his body when he drives. This is a big advantage for him since he has this type of strong and a little bit hard seeking body. He is a good post up player, knows to get right position on right time because sometimes we see how some players want to play post up games but can't manage to perform it. Chara is not one of them and always one step ahead of his opponent in offense. That's why I had said before, he is a type of guy for locking up. You can minimize his efficiency but can't completely cut him off. Even though he experienced some tough individual defenses, somehow he managed to be efficient thanks to his high basketball vision on floor. When he realizes that it is getting harder to score, in order to spread the pressure on him, he gives some killer passes which makes his teammates put on airs. This sounds so familiar. Yeah Diamantidis style. Maybe he watched him a lot and got his skills together. He is a must guy to make his teammates to play in their maximums. Everything seems easier with him. Even those flashy passes look so ordinary from his hands. This guys has feeling for the game. You can teach shooting ball and passing ball however this feeling is an innate ability that can't be learned throughout the time. One notable thing about his game is that he raises his head up when he plays post up or P&R plays for seeking his teammates in right position. That really impressed me because he is like a navigator and knows exactly where his teammates are. That's why he always has a B plan on floor. If he can't find right opportunity to score, he finds the one who can do it. His assist/turnover ratio is a little bit problematic but it was not because he is awkward, but his teammates hadn't expected those passes. A SF/PF mixture who can pass the ball in the way of creativeness is what most teams need in Euroleague.

Beside his elegant leadership and passing ability, this guy is great behind the arc. He appeared as a reliable scorer who has a little bit everything from anything in offensive dimension. He shoots the ball in great percentages. His shooting mechanism leads him to shoot the balls in every circumstance. Even though he is under pressure, somehow he throws the ball to the basket. He can create his own shoot though he doesn't have so quick first step. If you will ask me how does he do it, because of his long his arm span, and good mechanism, he find a possession after one or two crossover or penetration attempts. Off screen shots, pop shots and set shots are in his repertoire. Especially, off screen shots make him so valuable for his position. That's a kind of answer who thinks he is extremely slow and can't cope with high pressure defense in senior level

He has a great rebound skill for his position. A typical triple double performances guy. He occupies a huge place in the painted are and collects the rebounds well. Even though another good Greek prospect Papagiannis was good at rebounds and almost didn't miss the dropped rebounds, Chara had collected a notable number of rebounds in some games. He is very active on boards instead of taking nap in chaos.

When we look at his defensive skills, it appears as a little bit problematic part. He is not bad at D but against some type of players, he looked kinda lost. Some athletic, fast and agile player gave some hard times to him. His first step is slow which prevents him to guard those athletic forwards. There is no problem at belly up defenses however in face to face situations, he struggles to guard his opponent. He needs to quicker feet. That's a kind of deficiency in his game but still by time, he can rely on this. When he is good at one aspect of defensive game, he can't be bad at another aspect. He should be more reliable defensive player.

I am pretty sure that he will be a great Euroleague player. He has high basketball IQ like his team captain and I can't wait to see him against senior level players where he shined in some games this year. About NBA, I don't see him as a successful NBA material. His skills are great for European basketball mentality but his maximum is bench warmer for NBA. I already think that he will stay in Europe for years instead of wasting his time in NBA. Under these conditions, these are the things that I find out from his game. If he can have sustainable development, even in NBA, he can be splash and ride high.

[BiHBasket]

What a year for Atić. He is the only player this year choosen in both All Tournament Team of the U18 Euroleague and U18 European Championship.

22 points vs Zalgiris in the Euroleague

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZJzL-rPLtI

28 points vs Spain in the European Championship

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unqZGNmJ0Ck

No U18 anymore for him, now it's time to turn professional.

[omgsomuchpotential]

Thread needs to be renamed to 'Prospects from Ex-Yugoslavian countries with a couple random greeks mixed in'. Joking of course. So many talented young players from the Balkans.

[Oly_fan]

One now. Obradovic

Radonjic is from Montenegro, Duda is retired Why bother him with this, he is Croatian

The second part of the post was unrelated to the first.

5 months is a quite optimistic prediction. He has no chance after the first game of Papagiannis under Kings jersey. Selecting a player 13th overall when he was projected as a late second round draftee is the joke of the year. DeMarcus Cousins will try different fantasies on him.

There were articles in Greece before the draft saying he was doing very well in his practices with teams and was going to get picked early.

I know I saw him play a few minutes in the finals against Milutinov who is also a "talented young european big" and a few years older than him and Papagiannis looked like Hakeem.

[slice me nice]

There were articles in Greece before the draft saying he was doing very well in his practices with teams and was going to get picked early.

I know I saw him play a few minutes in the finals against Milutinov who is also a "talented young european big" and a few years older than him and Papagiannis looked like Hakeem.

Actually those pre-draft workouts don't have much influence on the decision of GMs. The performance there is just helping the decision makers to make the final cuts in their minds. Even if Papagiannis would play like Shaq, there is still no way, he can be a Top-15 draftee in a draft class where Ante Zizic was selected 23rd overall and Ivica Zubac 32nd overall. That's just a stupid decision. Both Zizic and Zubac have been much much better players than Papagiannis throughout their short careers. Everyone who follows youth basketball knows what kind of a meaningless draft shot it was.

[CoachZ]

He for sure showed as much as Kormaz, Zubac, Bender, Thon Maker, Hernangomez etc. They are all drafted based on potential. Out of European prospects, only Luwawu, Zagorac and Zipser played a lot of minutes and made a difference (I don;t count Sabonis and Poeltl who are both NCAA prospects). So that is their choice how they see him in the future. Big men get overdrafted anyway since they are always in demand and very few are of a high quality. So teams often spend high picks on them, even if they are not as elite as some other positional players.

Zizic is the most accomplished euro big in this draft, but at the same time he is a low ceiling prospect in many ways. That has affected his draft stock quite a lot. He played at a great level for his age, the issue is they don't think he can get much better and is limited in many aspects. Papagiannis is more imposing physically for sure but also more raw. If he puts it together he might be a better pro.

[Oly_fan]

where Ante Zizic was selected 23rd overall and Ivica Zubac 32nd overall. That's just a stupid decision. Both Zizic and Zubac have been much much better players than Papagiannis throughout their short careers. Everyone who follows youth basketball knows what kind of a meaningless draft shot it was.

Weird, I do follow youth basketball and I don't remember them being "much better players".
Papagiannis was in the eurobasket's first team last summer. Since then he got minutes in euroleague and had 6.5 ponts in 11.5 minutes in the Greek league. I see Zizic had 13.4 points in 25.7 minutes in the Adriatic league in a mid-table team.

I don't see what makes them better in their short careers.

[slice me nice]

He for sure showed as much as Kormaz, Zubac, Bender, Thon Maker, Hernangomez etc. They are all drafted based on potential. Out of European prospects, only Luwawu, Zagorac and Zipser played a lot of minutes and made a difference (I don;t count Sabonis and Poeltl who are both NCAA prospects). So that is their choice how they see him in the future. Big men get overdrafted anyway since they are always in demand and very few are of a high quality. So teams often spend high picks on them, even if they are not as elite as some other positional players.

Zizic is the most accomplished euro big in this draft, but at the same time he is a low ceiling prospect in many ways. That has affected his draft stock quite a lot. He played at a great level for his age, the issue is they don't think he can get much better and is limited in many aspects. Papagiannis is more imposing physically for sure but also more raw. If he puts it together he might be a better pro.

If we are addressing their potentials then the situation of Papagiannis gets worse. We are talking about a guy whose efficiency has been decreasing in progress of time. The first time when he showed himself up was in 2013 where he put great numbers on stat sheets. In 2014, he only averaged 8,6 PPG in WC and 8,1 PPG in 2015. Since I had followed those games, it is safe to say that he was far from the elite level to be considered as the Top-15 draftee. Putting aside the numbers, Papagiannis is extremely weak for a guy who has that type of body, missing lateral quickness and terrible athlete for NBA standards. There is no way there is a room for him in the constantly changing NBA game style with the current assets that he has. In a team where there is a normal GM, he shouldn't have been selected that high. All laughable.

Weird, I do follow youth basketball and I don't remember them being "much better players".
Papagiannis was in the eurobasket's first team last summer. Since then he got minutes in euroleague and had 6.5 ponts in 11.5 minutes in the Greek league. I see Zizic had 13.4 points in 25.7 minutes in the Adriatic league in a mid-table team.

I don't see what makes them better in their short careers.

Then you didn't watch this one.

Papagiannis - FIBA U19

8,1 PPG, 7,7 RPG, 0,1 APG

Zizic - FIBA U19

13 PPG, 7 RPG, 0,3 APG

Zubac - FIBA U19

17,6 PPG, 7,9 RPG, 1,3 APG

End of the story. No need to mention these two Croats are long term prospects with the constant development that he has shown so far on the contrary Papagiannis.

[AmonRA]

I watched a lot games of that trio(in senior teams), and Zizic is by far best player among them..
Zubac is overhyped, I didnt se nothing special from him, and Papagiannis is as we said clasical wood..

But they are all very young, so we will see how they will developed during the time...

[Oly_fan]

If we are addressing their potentials then the situation of Papagiannis gets worse. We are talking about a guy whose efficiency has been decreasing in progress of time. The first time when he showed himself up was in 2013 where he put great numbers on stat sheets. In 2014, he only averaged 8,6 PPG in WC and 8,1 PPG in 2015. Since I had followed those games, it is safe to say that he was far from the elite level to be considered as the Top-15 draftee. Putting aside the numbers, Papagiannis is extremely weak for a guy who has that type of body, missing lateral quickness and terrible athlete for NBA standards. There is no way there is a room for him in the constantly changing NBA game style with the current assets that he has. In a team where there is a normal GM, he shouldn't have been selected that high. All laughable.



Then you didn't watch this one.

Papagiannis - FIBA U19

8,1 PPG, 7,7 RPG, 0,1 APG

Zizic - FIBA U19

13 PPG, 7 RPG, 0,3 APG

Zubac - FIBA U19

17,6 PPG, 7,9 RPG, 1,3 APG

End of the story. No need to mention these two Croats are long term prospects with the constant development that he has shown so far on the contrary Papagiannis.

So you're using 2-year-old data to compare 19-year olds?
Yeah, good job.