Philippines Senior National Team Thread Vol. II

[durden_tyler]

So let me get this straight, every time Korea and Kazaksthan beats us which historically is a lot it’s because of our bad coaching. Not their players performing better than us. Let’s give credit where it is due , those teams have pretty good players, especially on the frontline . For the record we are actually well known in Asia for our quality coaching, our waterloo from time and memorial is not our inferior coaching but our frontline is simply not as good ( Frontlines in many ways reflects the level of play of a team) teams with 6’8 skilled mobile forwards generally are described as teams with more talent. Obviously none of what I’m saying is absolute or always true. But let’s wake up to the realisation that other teams have better players . Obviously a Blatche changes all of that.
Reason why we take so much 3’s is where really lack a consistent good inside game , law of averages especially when you’re tired is teams that rely on taking it strong inside normally play better in the stretch

It's a mix of a lot of factors obviously.

Other teams have good players, we recognise that. Could Chot have improved his rotation? In-game adjustments? Pacing?

We can't control the quality of opposition but damn sure we can control the quality of our coaching and how our players play.

[manu_bol]

So let me get this straight, every time Korea and Kazaksthan beats us which historically is a lot it’s because of our bad coaching. Not their players performing better than us. Let’s give credit where it is due , those teams have pretty good players, especially on the frontline . For the record we are actually well known in Asia for our quality coaching, our waterloo from time and memorial is not our inferior coaching but our frontline is simply not as good ( Frontlines in many ways reflects the level of play of a team) teams with 6’8 skilled mobile forwards generally are described as teams with more talent. Obviously none of what I’m saying is absolute or always true. But let’s wake up to the realisation that other teams have better players . Obviously a Blatche changes all of that.
Reason why we take so much 3’s is where really lack a consistent good inside game , law of averages especially when you’re tired is teams that rely on taking it strong inside normally play better in the stretch

you did say?

The game verifies what the Spain journey was telling us, Iran and the Philippines are easily the top 2 teams in Asia now, there is a separation between these two tier one elite Asian teams and the rest of the field. Both teams beat a common opponent in Spain- Egypt. I have doubts that any other Asian team could beat Egypt as convincingly as these 2 elite Asian teams.

[durden_tyler]

If Tab was coaching Gilas, it would be probably more of a defensive and physical team. I dont really care if we implement the DDO or change to a more European style as long as the emphasis would be more on defense..

I think we have the players now to make this work, its just that we dont see it now because our current coach opted to utilize a small pint size lineup to take advantage of the speed and quickness....

But if you look at the lineup the players are already there. Its just a matter of letting them play in the court at the same time...A naturalized PF player (Blatche), RDO (playing SF), Dillinger(playing SG/SF), Norwood (playing PG), Fajardo, and Lee plus Slaughter and Lassiter.. That's a solid 8 man rotation that we can build from...

Stop the tall ball dream for the meantime. We just don't have a tall point guard yet.

Unless of course you want a backcourt of Dillinger (can't dribble, turnover prone) and Norwood (can't shoot).

I admit these are better defensive pairings (than the midget pairings) and can be used in stretches of the game but not your main rotation or starter. 5-10 minutes that's acceptable and only when match-ups call for it. Our premium is speed and shooting, why leave that?

[durden_tyler]

you did say?

Excited to see the reason for flip-flopping this time

[GilG]

Oberto is like 6'10? Scola is 6'9. Chot should try to design some plays for his Bigs, this way we are unpredictable. This small ball he is envisioning is good only at the PBA level. Even his model Argentina always have a 6'10 and 6'9 all together or last WC'14 a 6'9 and 6'7 (Nocioni). This AG and WC'14 serves as his learning experience that it is better to have a combination of 2 bigs and 3 smaller guys.

Argentina used the Princeton offense during their might run in the mid-2000s. Chot needs to have great passing big men who can also shoot to use the Princeton effectively.

[Brown Bones]

Be very careful to what you say like congratulating the other team for beating Gilas because you may be called a " crab " here.

On a serious note.

Point taken.Don't you acknowledge that if we can't change our coach can't we admit also that we need to change some tactics also.

So let me get this straight, every time Korea and Kazaksthan beats us which historically is a lot it’s because of our bad coaching. Not their players performing better than us. Let’s give credit where it is due , those teams have pretty good players, especially on the frontline . For the record we are actually well known in Asia for our quality coaching, our waterloo from time and memorial is not our inferior coaching but our frontline is simply not as good ( Frontlines in many ways reflects the level of play of a team) teams with 6’8 skilled mobile forwards generally are described as teams with more talent. Obviously none of what I’m saying is absolute or always true. But let’s wake up to the realisation that other teams have better players . Obviously a Blatche changes all of that.
Reason why we take so much 3’s is where really lack a consistent good inside game , law of averages especially when you’re tired is teams that rely on taking it strong inside normally play better in the stretch

[manu_bol]

If Tab was coaching Gilas, it would be probably more of a defensive and physical team. I dont really care if we implement the DDO or change to a more European style as long as the emphasis would be more on defense..

I think we have the players now to make this work, its just that we dont see it now because our current coach opted to utilize a small pint size lineup to take advantage of the speed and quickness....

But if you look at the lineup the players are already there. Its just a matter of letting them play in the court at the same time...A naturalized PF player (Blatche), RDO (playing SF), Dillinger(playing SG/SF), Norwood (playing PG), Fajardo, and Lee plus Slaughter and Lassiter.. That's a solid 8 man rotation that we can build from...

Agree. It should not really affect the team should the coach run DDO or not because Gilas has not perfected the DDO system anyway. what could help Gilas is really stability in coaching and a good system in defense.

small ball is even okay if only we have the tools for it. you have to have pesky and energetic guards (like barroca, torion, and marata. etc) and complement with undersized bigs who are versatile and can shoot the perimeter (problem with ping).

[JAMSKIE]

Anybody know Baldwin's system? I know he would be different under our helm as our team isn't like Lebanon or Jordan.

Or maybe Filipino fans will be more cruel & unforgiving than Lebanese or Jordanian fans if its national team coach sucks.

I remember the Jordan team under Tab Baldwin winning the silver medal of the 2011 FIBA Asia Championship. But it wasn't a smooth-sailing for Baldwin & the Jordanians prior to that silver-medal run. More than a month prior to the 2011 FIBA Asia Championship, Jordan had a lethargic showing in the Jones Cup & didn't look like a medal-contender in Asian basketball, with loses to Japan (twice), Iran, & Taiwan to finish a dismal 6th in the tournament. Even in the 2011 FIBA Asia Championship itself, Jordan encountered rough sailing as it lost to Phi. & Japan in the elimination. Jordan's fortunes turned around with an upset win over heavily favored Iran & a vengeance over the Phi. in the crucial semis game to arrange a gold-medal showdown w/ China w/c the latter eventually won.

Such a feat won't really be pleasant to Filipino fans. Once our team starts to lose even in pre-tournament games, fans will easily get disappointed & will use the coach as a scapegoat. That's the hazards of the popularity of basketball here in the Philippines. Coaching is almost a thankless job.

Good for the coach if the team does well. But if it doesn't, then prepare yourself for the endless bashing, whining & blaming game of the cruel fans.

[GilG]

Yes they were humbled by the Chinese and also our team couldn't exact revenge in the gold medal game. (The current Asian games coach right now for China is Gong Lu Ming who was part of that golden generation of chinese players) But still 2 weeks of preparation if i am not mistaken is something we should admire at. We may say that the competition weren't as fierce then as today but with that little time to prepare against a better prepared opposition it is still an amazing accomplishment for a guy people love to hate or love, no middle ground and for a guy they would tell to rather play than coach.

China's Golden Generation was when Yao, Bateer, Wang, and Yi were playing at the same time. The 1990 China team that Jawo faced was good, but the Yao-led era was hands-down China's greatest.

[durden_tyler]

Agree. It should not really affect the team should the coach run DDO or not because Gilas has not perfected the DDO system anyway. what could help Gilas is really stability in coaching and a good system in defense.

small ball is even okay if only we have the tools for it. you have to have pesky and energetic guards (like barroca, torion, and marata. etc) and complement with undersized bigs who are versatile and can shoot the perimeter (problem with ping).

Well small ball worked wonders in the World Cup. DDO worked wonders in the World Cup.

End-game execution, pacing, in-game adjustments and some were the problems but not the system itself.

Slight tweak, additional wrinkles to the offensive system is needed but not an entire overhaul.

[manu_bol]

Argentina used the Princeton offense during their might run in the mid-2000s. Chot needs to have great passing big men who can also shoot to use the Princeton effectively.

that too. in our small ball of ping and RDO, we need PG-like passes and reads by them.

[manu_bol]

Well small ball worked wonders in the World Cup. DDO worked wonders in the World Cup.

End-game execution, pacing, in-game adjustments and some were the problems but not the system itself.

Slight tweak, additional wrinkles to the offensive system is needed but not an entire overhaul.

small ball and DDO is still the way to go for me.

but i see that we were not playing the right small ball and DDO - or maybe we were but not consistently.

if we continue to use the same system, one of those tweaks would be to do it with the right players.

[Brown Bones]

You can say that and yes. But I am talking about that time and in my opinion during that time they were the team that everyone is trying to beat.

Gong Lu Ming
Shan Tao
Gong Xiaobin
Ma Jian
Sun Jun

If anyone care to submit the complete list of this players please do so.

The above names are good to great players that dominated the asian basketball scene at that period.

China's Golden Generation was when Yao, Bateer, Wang, and Yi were playing at the same time. The 1990 China team that Jawo faced was good, but the Yao-led era was hands-down China's greatest.

[joshmaldito]

I think analyzed should change his handle into "chot apologist" just like chot he never runs out of excuses and he is blaming the players too....typical A-hole.

[pentelpen]

So let me get this straight, every time Korea and Kazaksthan beats us which historically is a lot it’s because of our bad coaching. Not their players performing better than us. Let’s give credit where it is due , those teams have pretty good players, especially on the frontline . For the record we are actually well known in Asia for our quality coaching, our waterloo from time and memorial is not our inferior coaching but our frontline is simply not as good ( Frontlines in many ways reflects the level of play of a team) teams with 6’8 skilled mobile forwards generally are described as teams with more talent. Obviously none of what I’m saying is absolute or always true. But let’s wake up to the realisation that other teams have better players . Obviously a Blatche changes all of that.
Reason why we take so much 3’s is where really lack a consistent good inside game , law of averages especially when you’re tired is teams that rely on taking it strong inside normally play better in the stretch

Did you read what you just wrote?

Our players have proven that they are able to compete. Based on your reasoning, every time we give up double digit leads in the 4th quarter, we shouldn't be surprised anymore if we lose since the opposing team has better players. We do not need any plays since we will lose anyway after gaining the advantage. We should just pass the ball to our point guards and have them hoist desperation threes every possession. We should just insert Chot's favorite players no matter if they are struggling or exhausted and unable to make plays since it is a hopeless case anyways.

We should just be glad to be playing ball with our more talented opponents. Us having double digit leads is a fluke and we are going to lose it in the 4th quarter since they have better players. We do not need to win any game since every loss is already a moral victory. PUSO!