2013 PBA Commisioners Cup

[durden_tyler]

Dont you think that mean the same thing? Just sayin...You gave Toroman the credit but how did Baculi instilled anything to the team whose look is so much different from last year... I mean based on the 7 players that Toroman is using plus the system that they are running now...

Then you agree with me that it's not black and white. I just hate people (not necessarily you) who barge in here and says it's all Toroman especially with what happened the last game.

[startupsold]

Did you watch Barako the past year?

I did, but I don't see Josh taking 24 shots, I don't take credit away from Junel as far as toughness is concern, but we can't hide the fact that this offense they're running is pretty fun to watch.

[sharky]

Nope. Toro superfans were silent here. They didn't have the balls to criticize their main man Toroman.

Here's the thing, Toroman is doing a good job so far as he has maximized the talent of this squad. But to say that this is all Toroman, something the superfans imply, the it's plain wrong. Baculi put in a culture of toughness in this squad and they are reaping the rewards so far.

LOL, Baculi superfan spotted. the players that were in Baculi's team that is still with Barako are Kramer, Pennisi and Celino Cruz, Seigle at that time was injured. and i believe Pennisi, Kramer and Celino doesn't need to be lectured about being tough. haha

[startupsold]

Toroman is a good coach but he is not the best in the PBA, I am just giving credit to where the credit is due. I would still rank Norman, Yeng, Tim ahead of him of course PBA wise.

[durden_tyler]

I did, but I don't see Josh taking 24 shots, I don't take credit away from Junel as far as toughness is concern, but we can't hide the fact that this offense they're running is pretty fun to watch.

It is. The offense is not sustainable however so they'll really need Brock to take more load on the scoring department if they want to be considered as legit contenders.

[durden_tyler]

LOL, Baculi superfan spotted. the players that were in Baculi's team that is still with Barako are Kramer, Pennisi and Celino Cruz, Seigle at that time was injured. and i believe Pennisi, Kramer and Celino doesn't need to be lectured about being tough. haha

Toroman ass-kisser spotted. Again, i ask where were you when Petron was struggling with Toroman? Do we completelly forget about that?

[startupsold]

Then you agree with me that it's not black and white. I just hate people (not necessarily you) who barge in here and says it's all Toroman especially with what happened the last game.

Then again, I wasn't present when the Gilas-Toroman fan boys were invading this forum. I am just basing it on the first two games of barako, you can go on with your argument with the fanboys lol

[mikepogi]

Then you agree with me that it's not black and white. I just hate people (not necessarily you) who barge in here and says it's all Toroman especially with what happened the last game.

Not necessarily agree with you.. Either you give the guy full credit or not.. You cant say he deserved credit BUT then say the previous coach did some of it for him.. Especially if the team looks totally different from last year..If you are talking about toughness Seigle, Pennissi, and Urbiztondo were already tough even before Baculi got to them...And culture of winning? They weren't exactly winning much last year...

[durden_tyler]

Not necessarily agree with you.. Either you give the guy full credit or not.. You cant say he deserved credit BUT then say the previous coach did some of it for him.. Especially if the team looks totally different from last year..If you are talking about toughness Seigle, Pennissi, and Urbiztondo were already tough even before Baculi got to them...And culture of winning? They weren't exactly winning much last year...

Manong Brigade did reach the semis if i am not mistaken...

[mikepogi]

Manong Brigade did reach the semis if i am not mistaken...

In the second conference I believe.. Full credit on Baculi on that one...

[Big Ticket]

Manong Brigade did reach the semis if i am not mistaken...

One game away from reaching the 2nd conf finals...

[Jordan Bruiseter]

who again posted that the old barako players are complaining about toro's practices?

Fit-again Seigle enjoys resurgence under Toroman system
By Richard Dy
February 10, 2013, 08:52 pm

DANNY Seigle knows his best days are probably behind him, but the way he contributed in Barako Bull’s early 2-0 lead in the PBA Commissioner’s Cup speaks a lot about his value to the newly-retooled franchise.

Seigle, who spent his best years with San Miguel Beer from 1999 to the 2010-2011 season, has been instrumental in the Energy Cola’s two straight victories to start the Commissioner’s Cup.

He scored five of his eight points in the crucial stretches of their game against San Mig Coffee to lead Barako Bull to an upset win over the defending Commissioner’s Cup champion, 79-75 on Friday.

Then on Sunday, Seigle rattled off five straight points to start the overtime period, just enough momentum to galvanize the confidence of Barako Bull on the way to a huge 98-88 come-from-behind victory against Globalport.

“The point there is being healthy,” Seigle told Spin.ph after the game. “I’ve been playing through aches and pains in the past, but then I started off this conference by just letting my injuries heal.”

He looks in good shape, a good sign for the 36-year-old, four-time Finals MVP, which allowed him to even elevate for a highlight-reel dunk against Globalport’s shot-blocking import Justin Williams.

“I just felt I needed to go stronger since he’s (Williams) a shot blocker. So I just need to go strong to the hole. Now if it’s there (opportunity to dunk), it’s there,” he added.

Barako Bull’a active team consultant Rajko Toroman said there had been a lot of questions about his working relationship with Seigle when he joined the team early last January. But he said he’s proud of how his veteran forward has been responding to his system.

“You saw how Danny Seigle has stepped up in two games. There had been a lot of questions on how me and Danny Seigle will work together because of my style of practice and his age. But you see, he’s looking good,” Toroman said of the man they call “Dynamite Danny."

Danny was supposed to be the best player of the game but actually had to beg off and went straight to the dugout. Quinito was actually looking for him for the post-game interview. He went to the dugout and saw Danny being attended to by a team therapist. Hope it's nothing serious.

[yapster]

Again, reading comprehension.

Did you watch the game? Then you'll agree with me that Baculi outcoached Toroman for 47 mins. Did i say Baculi should be given credit for this Barako win? No. I said he instilled a winning, effective culture there and that is something Toroman is maximizing, to that end he's done his job.

I usually agree with your comments, but not on this one. Baculli outcoached coach Rajko?! Sounds like we didn't watch the same game. It was a close game all the way. Barako didn't execute well in the first half even though they had so many open shuts. I heard from one of the assistants that the plan was to let Japeth shut and limit the import and Mercado's assists to him and David. Now whose plan won the game?! They managed to limit the scoring of Williams, and in a way David was stopped. Not to mention that refs were killing Barako, they didn't call so many fouls on Brock, and on the other hand they were buying David's good acting. And lastly, Barako has 5 injured players, and Global has more talents. The credit for every win and lost game should go to the coach and the players. The quality of the coach is to provide good situation for scoring, but if the players don't execute well, the blame is on them not the coach.

[yapster]

Toroman ass-kisser spotted. Again, i ask where were you when Petron was struggling with Toroman? Do we completelly forget about that?

You might call me Toroman ass-kisser as well, but concerning Petron, the man was there ONLY for 5 games(and didn't lose any game from scrub teams like Olsen), so we do not know what would could have happened. Besides, everyone around knows that he was obstructed by his assistants and R.Non from the day one. JMP wrote a good post on the topic. Coach Rajko was the victim of the "war" between Non and Eala. It would be interesting to hear from you about Olsen's coaching. I din't see that you said a word against him. A little fairness would be nice thing to do.

[Jay P. Mercado]

Just a little bit of caution though on Barako's initial run. Note that Barako has played two games so far, one against an import-less team in San Mig Coffee and another against a team that placed in the cellar in the recent PHL Cup. While not taking anything away from Barako's wins, it may be too early to conclude how much of an influence Rajko Toroman has established in this team. The better gauge is to see them after the elimination round when the team has played all the other teams in the league.

There are indeed some changes in Barako's game though that would need a closer watch. They've played handicap for the past two games brought about by injuries from several players. This somehow offsets their advantage of playing against San Mig that didn't suit up Matthew Rogers or a Global team that's still in a period of adjustment under a new coach and practically a new roster. Also, they may not exactly have the best import around in Evan Brock but he's been good enough to lead this team.

Some of Barako's plays are obviously influenced by Toroman's style. But we need to look at this in both ends - the good and the bad. I haven't seen much of Barako's games to make a concrete interpretation of how they're doing but from the snippets I've seen, their passing seems to be much crisper than before. They threw a lot of bricks from the 3-point arc in the first half and was able to contend when their shots started sinking in the second half. On the other hand, the team seems to be in disarray at times, and doesn't have the same fluidity compared last season. Part of this may be because of their unfamiliarity, but again, it also proves that grading Toroman at this point may be difficult and inconclusive.

I won't deny that Barako would become a much better team with Toroman on board. He's definitely an upgrade over an unmotivated Baculi last conference or a Bong Ramos who doesn't seem to command the respect of his players. But prudence dictates that to determine how positive Toroman's influence is into this team would require a couple more games against stronger and more complete teams.